jdev - 2023-06-05

https://xmpp.rs/blog/release-xmpp-0-4/

\o/

Time to rewrite Movim in Rust now

@hari: We combine React Native & XMPP in our solutions. You can contact me if you’re interested in more information.

> react native

https://draugr.de/upload/67bf95a8cbcc1a626458bd2bc45be7911302e594/3VxEC8GF6Iew3nTLEZGDk6R18bJ4nDSAC4I0YtEr/womancrying.m4a

trollge, dare I ask... why?

Ask the people responsible for creation of React instead

Critisismof tech stacks doesnt belong in this room

We all use what we want

MSavoritias (fae,ve): can you please stop being hitler

It's of course very tempting to be like that while you are online... but some people may not like it

trollge, that's not okay

If you can't engage in civil conversation and respect others, this isn't an appropriate channel for you to participate in. If you can, I suggest an apology and let's move on.

MattJ: what should I apologize for?

trollge, I see about two insults and/or inappropriate comparisons in the past hour, so that'd be a start: 12:43 UTC: implied degradation of react native as software stack used by people here 13:19 UTC: direct comparison of an individual here with hitler, which is not fair to that individual

> 12:43 UTC: implied degradation of react native as software stack used by people here React and its derivatives are the plague for modern web and desktop computing because of its use of resources and needless complexity. Any sane person who cares about what software runs on their computer would stay away as much as possible from react. The same holds for software developers unless they want to spit in their users's face like what web developers do. > 13:19 UTC: direct comparison of an individual here with hitler, which is not fair to that individual That individual can barely stand my or anyone else's critics about anything, no matter which form the criticism takes. I am sure if someone would give them weapons, and if I lived in the same area as them, I would be already dead

Neither of those statements excuse your behaviour in this channel

I don't see my behavior as explicitly insulting anyone's feelings unless one associates oneself with hitler or react this much

You were the one making the association, nobody else

😄

It seems you're unable to see the problem here, which suggests you're not able to communicate in a more respectful way in the future

> You were the one making the association, nobody else I don't use nor like react and I don't like hitler... and I didn't mention react in the 1st place

Even if you don't see the problem, you should see that something is objected to here. Please act accordingly.

trollge: Critisism on the piece of work is fair but disrespecting other people and their work is always out of order. Regardless of whatever aspect you are judging on. If you can't recognize what you have done and apology for calling MSavoritias (fae,ve) by that historical character, I think you should be ban from this MUC.

> trollge: Critisism on the piece of work is fair but disrespecting other people and their work is always out of order. Regardless of whatever aspect you are judging on. Ok... so if I poop and call the result the work of art and people start paying me for what I did, and then some strange person comes up and tells me that I don't do anything good, then that person would be wrong... ok...

trollge: what exactly do you hope to gain here

an entry in an affiliation list I guess

The very fact that web developers get paid much more than any decent profession is a spit in the faces of entire humankind

You don't like react, fine, why would it be appropriate to say so here, if I started listing things I didn't like here... It'd never end

thanks a lot.

+1

I kinda want something like XEP-0444 now. :)

dino has it!

Ah, looks like I didn't got the notification of the ban on Movim for that room

MSavoritias (fae,ve), accept my apology on their behalf, and thanks for working to steer the channel onto appropriate topics

Weird 🤔

MattJ: no worries. Thank you for stepping in ☺️

Enough time spent on this dude

moving on, I need to figure out whether aioxmpp works with python 3.11.4 now

Any moderation tooling we could be working on instead of ...this?

are the images out yet?

sadly, no

Docker python 3.11 images?

yes

3.11.4 is/was released today

and 3.11.3 has a bug which breaks aioxmpp in obscure ways, so the hopes are up that 3.11.4 fixes it so that I don't have to work around :-) ✏

Yeah, I had to pin to 3.11.2 when running aioxmpp-based CI tests for Openfire. I was kind of surprised that a language update caused something like that.

yeah

in a patch version even ✏

are you using something obscure, or is this in a non-hacky type of language usage pattern?

(where there's no such thing as a minor release :) )

From hanging in #mercurial, this all sounds like typical Python pains.

I don't know, I've been bumping Python version pretty painlessly on a number of projects

Guus, a mixin on enum.Enum is probably somewhat obscure, yes

Some thoughts: I’m not personally in favour of banning people, if there are alternatives. One negative aspect of banning a person, is that the person cannot receive feedback after being banned, and they are not given an opportunity to change opinion. They might have had a bad day. Fwiw, the person was a troll, hint was in the name. So to expect any meaningful change of opinion, or sincere discussion is perhaps far-fetched. But still: Would not silencing a person be better than banning them? It would allow them to receive feedback from the group, and reach out to administrators in case they would actually want to participate again, in a more constructive manner? Also, how difficult is it for a troll to create another JID and re-joing, if they wanted to? Another way to solve this, is to forward JIDs to all participants, but that would perhaps open up to spam.

and honestly, when trying to figure out wth goes wrong there, I had issues understanding my own mixin :D

Peter Waher, in this particular case, there are public logs of the room anyway.

Peter Waher, also, I find hitler comparisons being outside the scope of opinions I want to have to deal with changing in this particular space.

Public logs with infinite retention 🙂

Peter: that's a fair rationale, but I'm sure as many people that agree with you, will also disagree.

Peter Waher, we're no stranger to trolls - they received feedback and had sufficient time to correct their actions but refused. If you have more questions, feel free to contact me directly (we've spent enough of this channel's attention on one person)

There was some website that documented how to detect minor python versions via bugs in each version but now I've lost it :)

In the end, these were just thoughts. I have no objection. It’s always difficult to know how to handle situations that arise from bad actors, or people acting in bad faith. My personal opinion is that anonymity, and to some extent pseudonymity, brings this destructive side up easier, than if people interacted with their personal identities. But that would create a whole series of other problems that MUC and XMPP is not readily equipped for (or designed for).

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboards-and-other-anomalies continues to be accurate

anonymous is still a human being and i'm guessing most of the people here have been young once so it's sort of understandable. But behaving like such is not the way forward so I think it's fair that action were taken. However, I also don't like banning people and I do hope trollge will realize his|her action and will come to do the right thing.

It would be handy to record and expose a timestamp for affiliations, as well as have time-limited affiliations, so they're not forever and forgotten.

And/or roles that are slower and linger across leave/join

I have this weird PR https://github.com/movim/movim/pull/1178

ofrom from 0033 is really something used out there ?

Looks like "another hack for 0045" to me

What do you mean?

Is there similar implementation in other clients that you know ?

I'm not aware of any clients but ours that support any part of 0033