jdev - 2023-06-12

in the reactions XEP it says

> For other message types the sender should use the 'id' from a Unique and Stable Stanza IDs (XEP-0359) [6] <origin-id> if present, or the value of the 'id' attribute on the <message> otherwise.

this is the use case for direct conversations ( *not* MUC)

so why origin id OR message id?

what is the assumption here, that there exist clients who go through the work and attach a unique stable origin-id, but delibaretly leave the message-id non stable?

as i see it, either a client does not support origin-id -> means i need to use the message-id

or it supports origin-id, then it is expected that the client mirrors this to the message-id -> means i can also use the message-id

on that note, origin-id should just be a tag <origin-id> which indicates that the message-id is stable

but i guess this would need some agreement that message-ids are not allowed to be rewritten

> origin-id should just be a tag <origin-id> which indicates that the message-id is stable

that is a great idea

problem with that is, originally origin-id was invennted because some MUCs replaced the user set message-id

and there is nothing in the spec that really forbids that

anyway in MUCs we have now stanza-id which is fine

and in direct conversations this mostly does not matter

like if you really have a contact which uses some broken client, yeah stuff will look broken

but its like contained to this one contact

if in 2023 really clients are active in the wild, that dont use stable message-ids

i will tell the user to drop these clients

hm about Replies XEp

we want to implement that, but i fear many people will not want to use this really

prime use case for quoting is, that you exactly dont want to quote the whole message

this seems not be considered in the XEP

but seems a easy fix, simply include the some "start" and "end" markers inside the <reply> element

I think reply and quoting as not the same thing

I have been surprised how many people in XMPP are using email style quoting ever since I rolled out reply features

what is the difference? i fail to see it, it must be very subtle

excerp from the XEP

> When commenting on a previous message, it is sometimes desired to clarify which message the comment refers to. Currently, Message Styling (XEP-0393) [1] quotes are commonly used for that purpose. However, this format does not allow receiving clients to properly identify the referenced message or to adjust the user interface accordingly.

This XEP tries to add more metadata to the commonly used XEP-0393 Quotes

so i dont think its meant as something "different"

its ironic, that in trying to add these metadata, it removes the ability to quote

hm or does it? i could simply not add the <fallback body> tag

then no client can strip the quotes from the body

Some people use quotes of parts of multiple messages, sent by different people. People also use quotes for stuff that was never originally a message

I think quoting is a legitimate kind of formatting which just happens to partly overlap with replies

> quoting is a legitimate kind of formatting which just happens to partly overlap with replies This