jdev - 2024-10-04


  1. Guus

    Is there a server/service available out there that reliably takes a _long_ time to accept a socket connection? I'm trying to test a feature that interrupts a socket connection attempt mid-flight, but am having trouble testing it.

  2. Guus

    (doesn't need to do any XMPP)

  3. lovetox

    would that not be trivial to write

  4. Zash

    time to accept() or time to TCP ACK?

  5. lovetox

    https://docs.python.org/3/library/socketserver.html#examples

  6. lovetox

    here copy paste python, add in handle a time.sleep(10)

  7. Guus

    I _think_ TCP ACK?

  8. Zash

    Then I believe you need some kernel / firewall trickery.

  9. Guus

    I don't speak python. In Java, this proves to be deceptively hard to do on localhost (which almost always connects immediately)

  10. Zash

    Whatsitcalled, tq? May be useful.

  11. Zash

    AFAIK Linux will accept the connection on behalf of programs _and then_ notify them that they can accep() on the server socket.

  12. Zash

    And loopback is even tricker

  13. Zash

    > Whatsitcalled, tq? May be useful. Ah, it's called tc

  14. Zash

    I have never used it, but afaik that's a thing you can use to artificially simulate various network conditions. Also other traffic shaping and such.

  15. Guus

    Hence me asking about an endpoint that someone else already made available

  16. Guus

    I think I'm seeing something interesting with `drop.badxmpp.eu` by the way

  17. Zash

    > Hence me asking about an endpoint that someone else already made available I am not aware of any (except the `-j DROP` on badxmpp.eu), trying to give you search terms.

  18. Guus

    when using by an XMPP server that uses the fallback method of host resolution, it will not only find `snikket2.prosody.im` (which drops data) but also drop.badxmpp.eu (as a fallback), which doesn't drop things.

  19. Zash

    Uh

  20. Guus

    Oh, that might be the default port

  21. Zash

    The magic is in the ports

  22. Guus

    so, I've got this connection setup where I try to do DNS SRV resolution, and if that doesn't work, attempt to connect to a host matching the XMPP domain name on the default s2s port

  23. Guus

    The SRV record resolves to a port (9) that is DROP'ped, I guess - but I still connect through that fallback (which uses the same port on a different hostname)

  24. Guus

    The hostnames are all aliases for the same physical machine, I guess?

  25. Zash

    It is not made with such fallback behavior in mind.

  26. Guus

    Yeah, I figured that. It's confusing, but might actually be helpful to me.

  27. Zash

    It has something like these firewall rules: https://code.zash.se/badxmpp.eu/file/tip/firewall.iptables

  28. Zash

    It has something like these firewall rules: https://code.zash.se/badxmpp.eu/file/tip/firewall.iptables + https://code.zash.se/badxmpp.eu/file/tip/firewall.ip6tables

  29. Guus

    I was just puzzled why I could connect to drop.badxmpp

  30. Zash

    > The hostnames are all aliases for the same physical machine, I guess? VPS but yes

  31. Zash

    Can't do stuff with many IPs, it's sharing Prosody with xmpp:conference.prosody.im which listens on the default ports, which I don't want to block :)

  32. Zash

    Can't do stuff with many IPs we only have the one v4 and one v6. It's sharing Prosody with xmpp:conference.prosody.im which listens on the default ports, which I don't want to block :)

  33. Guus

    Understandable, and not a big deal. Like I said, this might actually turn out to be helpful.

  34. moparisthebest

    > Is there a server/service available out there that reliably takes a _long_ time to accept a socket connection? I'm trying to test a feature that interrupts a socket connection attempt mid-flight, but am having trouble testing it. Guus: there's a tool for that https://github.com/tylertreat/Comcast

  35. Guus

    hehe, I thought you were suggesting me to subscribe to a crappy ISP :)

  36. moparisthebest

    I mean that would work too but seems a bit extreme 😁

  37. debacle

    Implement Jabber in-app payments and get funded: https://ps.s10y.eu/@NGI_Taler/113248494527530669 Good luck!

  38. moparisthebest

    Lol taler, stop trying to make it happen, we already have Bitcoin

  39. Menel

    It's something different, It's not competing imo. Not like all the other blockchain stuff

  40. moparisthebest

    many nostr clients implement in app payments they call "zaps" which are simply Bitcoin lightning transfers, that's what XMPP needs, not some centralized crap no one will ever use

  41. Menel

    Bitcoin is too centralized for me

  42. moparisthebest

    Menel: website says the goal is privacy preserving electronic micropayments between people, that's 100% what Bitcoin is, except it's actually used, open source, federated, and permissionless like XMPP

  43. moparisthebest

    At least one XMPP muc I'm in even has a bot to let new users voice themselves via lightning payment

  44. rom1dep

    And why not both? If Bitcoin has demonstrated one thing, it's not going anywhere near something widespread and useful anytime soon

  45. moparisthebest

    Uses this https://gitea.kosmos.org/raucao/xmpp-lightning-antispam

  46. singpolyma

    > many nostr clients implement in app payments they call "zaps" which are simply Bitcoin lightning transfers, that's what XMPP needs, not some centralized crap no one will ever use They built a wallet into the app or what do they do?

  47. moparisthebest

    rom1dep: taler has never been used once and depends on govts who don't want payment privacy to adopt Bitcoin has been heavily used for over a decade

  48. moparisthebest

    taler is like, govt mandated WhatsApp Bitcoin is XMPP

  49. singpolyma

    Also taler is basically a baby ripple and there are deployed ripple implementations people actually use

  50. singpolyma

    (including lighting which is also a baby ripple)

  51. moparisthebest

    >> many nostr clients implement in app payments they call "zaps" which are simply Bitcoin lightning transfers, that's what XMPP needs, not some centralized crap no one will ever use > They built a wallet into the app or what do they do? singpolyma: tl;dr simply lightning invoices transmitted, it'd be very simple to do this with XMPP https://nostr.how/en/zaps

  52. rom1dep

    > rom1dep: taler has never been used once and depends on govts who don't want payment privacy to adopt > > Bitcoin has been heavily used for over a decade They serve different purposes, and one, by its existence and use, doesn't hinder the other. Most people want payments that are easy, versatile and error proof, Bitcoin isn't any of this

  53. singpolyma

    There does not (and probably cannot) exist a payment system that is all of those 😄

  54. singpolyma

    But I think we're drifting off topic for jdev

  55. debacle

    > Lol taler, stop trying to make it happen, we already have Bitcoin Taler is a payment method, Bitcoin is a currency. I imagin you can use Taler to pay using Bitcoin. If I want/have to pay in Euro, I could you Taler.

  56. debacle

    > Lol taler, stop trying to make it happen, we already have Bitcoin Taler is a payment method, Bitcoin is a currency. I imagin you can use Taler to pay using Bitcoin. If I want/have to pay in Euro, I could use Taler.

  57. moparisthebest

    > Most people want payments that are easy, versatile and error proof, Bitcoin isn't any of this Bitcoin is all of these, right now, not in some possible future

  58. rom1dep

    > There does not (and probably cannot) exist a payment system that is all of those 😄 Some systems make it as easy as uploading a IBAN against a URL the sender provided, or scanning a Qr code, versatile is where you don't have to assume the recipient has to install anything new, and error proof is where you don't lose access to your money when you change or break device, or are inevitably become a scamer's target. > But I think we're drifting off topic for jdev Yeah, sorry for that.

  59. wgreenhouse

    I don't think payment is desirable in xmpp (as a xep) or as a client feature. surely people can use xmpp if they wish already to pass addresses or equivalent needed to make payments without deeply integrating that into the software.

  60. rom1dep

    > I don't think payment is desirable in xmpp (as a xep) or as a client feature. surely people can use xmpp if they wish already to pass addresses or equivalent needed to make payments without deeply integrating that into the software. Agreed

  61. wgreenhouse

    that goes for taler or btc btw. just not needed, out of scope

  62. rom1dep

    Practically I already pay my train tickets over XMPP if by that I mean receiving the URL to the payment page 🙂

  63. wgreenhouse

    right, same, occasionally :)

  64. moparisthebest

    Is it out of scope? In my ideal world 100% of my contacts are on XMPP so why would I want to try to link their identity a separate way to exchange money?

  65. rom1dep

    Because that's what the majority needs

  66. moparisthebest

    JMP.chat should be able to send me an invoice monthly for my service and I should be able to click "pay", not copy+paste or navigate to a website or type in anything

  67. wgreenhouse

    what is the big deal about copying a BTC address (or your OS lettibg you click on it to open your wallet app)

  68. moparisthebest

    If you've been paying attention you've noticed the rest of the world is quickly migrating to proprietary payment apps for everything, which I want no part of

  69. rom1dep

    jmp.chat could use paylib.fr, ideal.nl, ... there, solved

  70. moparisthebest

    It's easy mom! Just copy and paste this and... I've already lost her

  71. wgreenhouse

    moparisthebest: I don't want payments in messengers because that will 95% of the time only scam old people

  72. debacle

    At least makers of Signal and Nostr (sounds like the chat system of the Sicilian Mafia) seem to think, that chat system and payment service can live together. Not sure, if they are positive or negative examples, though.

  73. wgreenhouse

    debacle: they

  74. moparisthebest

    > jmp.chat could use paylib.fr, ideal.nl, ... there, solved Do I need to visit a website, have an account, or type anything in? Then it's already way worse and bad

  75. wgreenhouse

    arw very mistaken

  76. wgreenhouse

    in fact signal was heavily criticized for that

  77. rom1dep

    > If you've been paying attention you've noticed the rest of the world is quickly migrating to proprietary payment apps for everything, which I want no part of Your bank is also using a bunch of proprietary things. What you propose is a banks-free world, and that's not for everyone

  78. wgreenhouse

    (and not only for floating a shitcoin)

  79. moparisthebest

    Signal is a bad example just like this taler thing, trying to poorly reinvent something that already works better

  80. rom1dep

    >> jmp.chat could use paylib.fr, ideal.nl, ... there, solved > Do I need to visit a website, have an account, or type anything in? Then it's already way worse and bad Just a URL, then you use the payment mean you prefer and it opens on whatever you have selected

  81. moparisthebest

    >> If you've been paying attention you've noticed the rest of the world is quickly migrating to proprietary payment apps for everything, which I want no part of > Your bank is also using a bunch of proprietary things. What you propose is a banks-free world, and that's not for everyone rom1dep: banks can still exist, but you don't *have* to use them, which is ideal (just like WhatsApp exists using XMPP but you can instead run your own XMPP server)

  82. rom1dep

    That's what I keep repeating, both must coexist, because my aunt isn't a cryptopunk

  83. moparisthebest

    Signal & Matrix: poorly reinvents XMPP SignalCoin & Taler: poorly reinvents Bitcoin I'm starting to notice a pattern...

  84. debacle

    > > If you've been paying attention you've noticed the rest of the world is quickly migrating to proprietary payment apps for everything, which I want no part of > Your bank is also using a bunch of proprietary things. What you propose is a banks-free world, and that's not for everyone Taler is not "banks-free", it is just a payment technology, in which banks are very important. If it is a good idea to combine it with a chat service, well, not sure. But being able to transfer some Euro to a known contact without having to ask about their IBAN would be useful for me.

  85. wgreenhouse

    debacle: you'll probably still have to ask about their IBAN unless I can ash out the Taler on my end

  86. wgreenhouse

    s/ash/cash/

  87. wgreenhouse

    that doesn't seem to be an xmpp issue either way

  88. debacle

    Sure, it only works, if both parties annouce their talerability using disco or whatever.

  89. debacle

    Sure, it only works, if both parties announce their talerability using disco or whatever.

  90. moparisthebest

    Right, and that's why Taler will never happen: 1. It requires support from govt which wants full control over money transfers https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/09/mps-vote-to-cap-cash-purchases-at-e3000-tighter-than-eu-limit/ 2. It requires support from banks who already make money on money transfers so it's literally taking their profit

  91. moparisthebest

    Just like I'd be against chat controlled by govt I'm against currency controlled by govt. Open, federated protocols are the future I want, Bitcoin is XMPP, XMPP is Bitcoin. ;)

  92. Guus throws garlic at moparisthebest

  93. debacle even being atheist, holds a cross

  94. debacle

    Still, XMPP could be used for any kind of payments, Bitcoin, Taler, whatever, as long as both parties know which methods and currencies they do support.

  95. moparisthebest

    I still find it hard to believe people pro-xmpp are anti-bitcoin but 🤷‍♂️ 100% identical in my mind

  96. debacle

    But Taler has some funding right now ;-)

  97. moparisthebest

    Bitcoin has had funding for 15 years though... :P and is, you know, actually used. /rant

  98. debacle

    I mean: Funding for others, which could be used by XMPP developers.

  99. debacle

    I'm not going to apply, so please somebody else take their money!

  100. moparisthebest

    > I mean: Funding for others, which could be used by XMPP developers. debacle: me too, eg https://hrf.org/devfund would likely fund integrating lightning payments into XMPP

  101. moparisthebest

    https://opensats.org/apply looks like another

  102. singpolyma

    > debacle: you'll probably still have to ask about their IBAN unless I can ash out the Taler on my end You don't "cash out" taler it's just a bank transfer into your bank account in the end

  103. Cynthia

    taler is just like mastercard/visa

  104. Cynthia

    also bitcoin is a shitcoin nowadays (huge fees, etc.)

  105. Cynthia

    it's barely usable since transactions take over a day or so to confirm

  106. singpolyma

    > taler is just like mastercard/visa It's more like SEPA, and better than either of course

  107. Menel

    Ah you're still on _that_ topic here.

  108. moparisthebest

    Cynthia: Bitcoin over lightning is instant and basically free, onchain isn't bad these days either

  109. Cynthia

    lightning is just a hack

  110. moparisthebest

    Lol I don't know what to say to that, it's been working great for years 🤷‍♂️

  111. Cynthia

    last time i used bitcoin was in 2017, i didn't need lightning to send people bitcoins

  112. Cynthia

    now i guess apparently i do

  113. singpolyma

    Nah, I don't bother with it on chain works fine

  114. Cynthia

    i moved on to monero, it works fine and it's future-proof (along with being private)

  115. Cynthia

    with a dynamic block size, so the chain doesn't choke with billions of transactions

  116. moparisthebest

    You don't, onchain fees got a bit high in like 2021 but not anymore But lightning is the way to instantly, privately, and cheaply pay people

  117. moparisthebest

    Cynthia: for a concrete example the last time I sent $6 USD worth of BTC over lightning, it was instant and the fee was 1 sat which is $0.00062 USD

  118. Cynthia

    anyway, taler is just gonna be controlled by govs just like mastercard and visa

  119. Cynthia

    which is gonna be really terrible

  120. singpolyma

    s/govs/banks but yes of course

  121. moparisthebest

    same thing 🙃

  122. Cynthia

    govs and banks alike

  123. singpolyma

    If it ever gets off the ground which I doubt because banks prefer to use worse protocols

  124. Cynthia

    my country is a massive dick in that regard

  125. Cynthia

    they nerfed paypal, wise, and other services

  126. Cynthia

    because they don't want people to use paypal as some secondary bank that they can't get a cut from

  127. Cynthia

    because they don't want people to use paypal or wise as some secondary bank that they can't get a cut from

  128. moparisthebest

    > If it ever gets off the ground which I doubt because banks prefer to use worse protocols Exactly this, otherwise how can they track you and sell your data

  129. Cynthia

    and they wanna control money that comes in and out

  130. moparisthebest

    Mandated to by law even

  131. Cynthia

    so they made a deal with paypal to not allow people to normally withdraw or deposit money

  132. Cynthia

    instead they had to do it with a bank's service dedicated to that, which is more slower, and takes a much higher fee

  133. Cynthia

    so i wouldn't prefer the same situation with that with taler

  134. moparisthebest

    open protocols & code is the only escape, that's why I'm here anyway

  135. Cynthia

    i use cryptocurrencies and open protocols to escape my country's excessive need for control

  136. Cynthia

    not to have it yet again

  137. moparisthebest

    Right, which is my guess on why most XMPP devs don't see a need yet, most have grown up with the privilege of a stable currency

  138. Cynthia

    my country has cryptocurrencies banned because of this

  139. Cynthia

    it doesn't let them control or take money from people, so they have to ban it and give people massive fines for it

  140. Cynthia

    if they know someone who uses it and has a lot of money in it

  141. yvo

    > Right, which is my guess on why most XMPP devs don't see a need yet, most have grown up with the privilege of a stable currency true, xmpp devs are mostly from wealthy countries

  142. Menel

    Sounds like you all want to fix non working democracies with technology

  143. moparisthebest

    That's the only way right Menel ? See: the printing press

  144. moparisthebest

    Also, the internet

  145. Menel

    Didn't see how that all improves it.

  146. wgreenhouse

    > Sounds like you all want to fix non working democracies with technology Menel: not I, I think it can't be done

  147. wgreenhouse

    (technologically or not)

  148. wgreenhouse

    we can definitely use technology to make democracy function _less_ however

  149. moparisthebest

    Europeans: use technology to fix their govts Also Europeans to others: you can't use technology to fix your govts 🤣

  150. rom1dep

    > I still find it hard to believe people pro-xmpp are anti-bitcoin but 🤷‍♂️ 100% identical in my mind I haven't seen anyone being against bitcoin/crypto-currencies there. But you should probably have realized by now that they won't become mainstream in this lifetime. What makes them valuable to you makes them impractical or irrelevant to others. Oh, and since you seem to be thinking that your own government is the enemy here, I have bad news being the one to tell you that they will probably know much more about your spending the more you use bitcoin

  151. wgreenhouse

    moparisthebest: on balance, the printing press was good for starting religious wars and splitting states, and only occasionally helped democracies get started -- is my point mostly it will amplify existing social badness because as st. wm. gibson observed, the future is unevenly distributed

  152. wgreenhouse

    and it's usually existing elites who get to live in the future

  153. moparisthebest

    rom1dep: you've entirely missed the point I'm afraid. We use XMPP instead of silos because silos can change from good to evil instantly. So it doesn't matter if you trust your silo and they are good *now*. Why do people constantly forget govts are the same way? It's rather silly

  154. moparisthebest

    It's great you were able to grow up under a decent stable govt. Did your parents? What about their grandparents? Probably not. It wasn't very long ago.

  155. rom1dep

    I am fortunate that my government is elected, but I am not a stakeholder in facebook, google, etc

  156. rom1dep

    I am all in favour of distributing power/control/whatever and DIYing as much stuff as possible, but at one point you must trust some institutions/governmental bodies/…

  157. rom1dep

    the only thing making it tolerable is the leverage our collective votes and voices bear

  158. wgreenhouse

    rom1dep: unconditional trust is not required; you can instead e.g. trust states to be states, police to be police, etc.

  159. wgreenhouse

    their behavior is determined by their nature

  160. Cynthia

    Menel: not even a democracy here

  161. wgreenhouse

    but will never align with your interest exactly

  162. rom1dep

    and tech is only a tiny piece of a larger power structure, over-fixation on it is productive to only an extent

  163. wgreenhouse

    correct.

  164. moparisthebest

    Again missing the point, it's great your current govt is elected and you can have a say. You realize that govt can be replaced tommorow right? It literally happens constantly all over the world

  165. Cynthia

    my govt is not elected

  166. Cynthia

    it's a monarchy, and i'd be glad for a coup or some shit

  167. wgreenhouse

    rom1dep: as I said, mostly consumer technology has the power to make stuff even worse. I agree it's a superstructure

  168. Cynthia

    but you wouldn't catch me saying that publicly

  169. rom1dep

    > Again missing the point, it's great your current govt is elected and you can have a say. You realize that govt can be replaced tommorow right? It literally happens constantly all over the world yep. And that day you have bigger fish to fry, believe me

  170. moparisthebest

    rom1dep: sure, but you'd say eg communication would be helpful for you there right?

  171. rom1dep

    totally

  172. moparisthebest

    So would money

  173. Cynthia

    anyway i am grateful for technology that is independent from government control

  174. Cynthia

    i don't think the government should be trusted, and thus that's why i'm for open protocol and code

  175. rom1dep

    and again, I feel like you are dragging me into an ad absurdum fallacy here, it's not because I believe that not everything can happen over bitcoin that I am against bitcoin

  176. moparisthebest

    wgreenhouse: I don't think we disagree, all tech is used for bad and good, printing press and internet and XMPP are vital but can also be used for misinformation, money the same way But open is better than closed

  177. Cynthia

    rom1dep: i think that's false, i don't trust any part of my government

  178. Cynthia

    not even law enforcement, not even public "services" (if they exist), etc.

  179. moparisthebest

    rom1dep: you don't have a pressing need for Bitcoin right now, I get it. But some do, like Cynthia

  180. rom1dep

    > i don't think the government should be trusted, and thus that's why i'm for open protocol and code nobody should think that, especially in democratic countries

  181. Cynthia

    all of it is as corrupt as it can be

  182. Cynthia

    > > i don't think the government should be trusted, and thus that's why i'm for open protocol and code > nobody should think that, especially in democratic countries you think some governments, especially dictatorships, will like you more if you trust them?

  183. Cynthia

    they'll backstab you when you least expect them

  184. Cynthia

    not trusting them makes you less suspectible to that

  185. rom1dep

    > rom1dep: you don't have a pressing need for Bitcoin right now, I get it. But some do, like Cynthia right, but we are shifting goalposts here. You want bitcoin everywhere, and all I'm saying is that it won't happen (because its qualities entail flaws that most people can't stand), and you read that I am against bitcoin or something

  186. yvo

    > nobody should think that, especially in democratic countries rom1dep this is what you said

  187. Cynthia

    saying "nobody should think that" makes it way too obvious you live in a first-world bubble

  188. yvo

    😁️

  189. moparisthebest

    rom1dep: do you not want XMPP everywhere? Aren't we here working to eliminate those flaws?

  190. Cynthia

    and saying that it can be solved by voting

  191. Cynthia

    it would need much much more than voting to solve the problems here

  192. Cynthia

    and it is the solution that your ancestors have done many decades ago

  193. Cynthia

    overthrow and kill, civil war, etc.

  194. rom1dep

    > > > i don't think the government should be trusted, and thus that's why i'm for open protocol and code > > nobody should think that, especially in democratic countries > you think some governments, especially dictatorships, will like you more if you trust them? I am only saying that being suspicious of your representatives is the basis of sound democracy. If you aren't, it's just the same as accepting a tyrant's rule

  195. yvo

    you have to work hard to keep freedom

    👍 1
  196. yvo

    without working hard you drift back to dictatorship

    👍 1
  197. moparisthebest

    Europeans 1800: literally cut off the heads of their royal families to free themselves from tyranny Europeans 2000: don't do that just vote bro

  198. yvo

    ^^

  199. Cynthia

    > Europeans 1800: literally cut off the heads of their royal families to free themselves from tyranny > Europeans 2000: don't do that just vote bro this is literally what i'm talking about

  200. Cynthia

    people think that it can all be solved by peacefully voting or whatever, not knowing that the freedoms they're entitled to are the result of their ancestors violently murdering dictators and civil wars

  201. Cynthia

    people tried that here too, you know what's the difference? they LOST

  202. Cynthia

    and the government, the current rulers won, and so we still get to suffer

  203. rom1dep

    > saying "nobody should think that" makes it way too obvious you live in a first-world bubble nobody should think that governments should be trusted, do you have a problem with that? It's the same as saying that nobody should think that things are going to remain the way they are. It's what moparisthebest wrote earlier about something good one day possibly turning bad the other. Based on history I think it's a rather pragmatic and realistic take, not necessarily a sign of privilege 🤷️

  204. Cynthia

    > > saying "nobody should think that" makes it way too obvious you live in a first-world bubble > nobody should think that governments should be trusted, do you have a problem with that? > It's the same as saying that nobody should think that things are going to remain the way they are. > It's what moparisthebest wrote earlier about something good one day possibly turning bad the other. > Based on history I think it's a rather pragmatic and realistic take, not necessarily a sign of privilege 🤷️ oh, then you didn't make it clear

  205. Cynthia

    nobody should think that governments should be trusted

  206. Cynthia

    and nobody should trust governments

  207. Cynthia

    and frankly, there is no peaceful way of achieving freedom for a country

  208. Cynthia

    but anyway, we should think about technology that allow us to be independent from government control, and ensure freedom outside their knowledge

  209. Cynthia

    even if we may be living in first-world countries where you don't have to worry about that

  210. rom1dep

    yup, totally

  211. yvo

    > even if we may be living in first-world countries where you don't have to worry about that you have to

  212. Cynthia

    i'm saying in a hypothetical situation

  213. rom1dep

    teaching to worry about that is the best ammo against regressive changes

  214. Cynthia

    i have to worry about that all the time, most of the stuff i'm doing is considered a crie

    🤣 1
  215. Cynthia

    i have to worry about that all the time, most of the stuff i'm doing is considered a crime here

  216. yvo

    My child is currently hunted by the German Child Protection Service for having protected himself against bullying at school with the help of the police: https://kanoa.de/@frodo

  217. yvo

    We heavily rely on XMPP, jitsi meet etc

  218. yvo

    Dunno how to survive this otherwiese

  219. yvo

    Dunno how to survive this otherwise

  220. yvo

    so even in the wealthy western countries

  221. yvo

    there can be many circumstances where you need the techn protection.

  222. rom1dep

    > My child is currently hunted by the German Child Protection Service for having protected himself against bullying at school with the help of the police: https://kanoa.de/@frodo 😮️

  223. Cynthia

    "I am NOT WHITE" how can i tell this guy lives in europe without knowing that he lives in europe

  224. Cynthia

    (making a joke about police racial bias)

  225. yvo

    ^^ my child has just a little dark touch like an Italian

  226. yvo

    so not white is way exaggerated

  227. yvo

    but you are treated like that

  228. Cynthia

    this room has more europeans than i thought

  229. rom1dep

    yvo: I don't know about your circumstances, but there must be some legal recourse and associations willing to support you

  230. Cynthia

    i'd like to see some americans or someone else

  231. Cynthia

    other than europeans

  232. yvo

    > yvo: I don't know about your circumstances, but there must be some legal recourse and associations willing to support you have found only an American Pschologist which helps

  233. moparisthebest

    Cynthia: Americans are here 🇺🇲

  234. yvo

    All the Germany institutions, lawyers, anti-discr NGOs act very strange

  235. yvo

    My child documented it a bit on mastodon: no replies by many he mailed to

  236. Cynthia

    yvo: racial bias

  237. yvo

    yes

  238. Cynthia

    i'm not surprised really

  239. rom1dep

    > this room has more europeans than i thought pleading guilty of living in Europe, that said, I haven't lived in the country I was born for more than a decade, and lived in half a dozen countries in between

  240. yvo

    nice

  241. yvo

    > i'm not surprised really haha

  242. Cynthia

    for example, if you look north african, people are gonna think you're just some welfare leech

  243. Cynthia

    or illegal immigrant, or both

  244. Cynthia

    moparisthebest: yay

  245. yvo

    Cynthia, both of course but they enjoy if you bring them their pizza fast / cheap

  246. yvo

    Cynthia, both of course but they enjoy if you bring them their pizza fast & cheap

  247. Cynthia

    yes of course, just like nahel