-
Guus
Is there a server/service available out there that reliably takes a _long_ time to accept a socket connection? I'm trying to test a feature that interrupts a socket connection attempt mid-flight, but am having trouble testing it.
-
Guus
(doesn't need to do any XMPP)
-
lovetox
would that not be trivial to write
-
Zash
time to accept() or time to TCP ACK?
-
lovetox
https://docs.python.org/3/library/socketserver.html#examples
-
lovetox
here copy paste python, add in handle a time.sleep(10)
-
Guus
I _think_ TCP ACK?
-
Zash
Then I believe you need some kernel / firewall trickery.
-
Guus
I don't speak python. In Java, this proves to be deceptively hard to do on localhost (which almost always connects immediately)
-
Zash
Whatsitcalled, tq? May be useful.
-
Zash
AFAIK Linux will accept the connection on behalf of programs _and then_ notify them that they can accep() on the server socket.
-
Zash
And loopback is even tricker
-
Zash
> Whatsitcalled, tq? May be useful. Ah, it's called tc ↺
-
Zash
I have never used it, but afaik that's a thing you can use to artificially simulate various network conditions. Also other traffic shaping and such.
-
Guus
Hence me asking about an endpoint that someone else already made available
-
Guus
I think I'm seeing something interesting with `drop.badxmpp.eu` by the way
-
Zash
> Hence me asking about an endpoint that someone else already made available I am not aware of any (except the `-j DROP` on badxmpp.eu), trying to give you search terms. ↺
-
Guus
when using by an XMPP server that uses the fallback method of host resolution, it will not only find `snikket2.prosody.im` (which drops data) but also drop.badxmpp.eu (as a fallback), which doesn't drop things.
-
Zash
Uh
-
Guus
Oh, that might be the default port
-
Zash
The magic is in the ports
-
Guus
so, I've got this connection setup where I try to do DNS SRV resolution, and if that doesn't work, attempt to connect to a host matching the XMPP domain name on the default s2s port
-
Guus
The SRV record resolves to a port (9) that is DROP'ped, I guess - but I still connect through that fallback (which uses the same port on a different hostname)
-
Guus
The hostnames are all aliases for the same physical machine, I guess?
-
Zash
It is not made with such fallback behavior in mind.
-
Guus
Yeah, I figured that. It's confusing, but might actually be helpful to me.
-
Zash
It has something like these firewall rules: https://code.zash.se/badxmpp.eu/file/tip/firewall.iptables✎ -
Zash
It has something like these firewall rules: https://code.zash.se/badxmpp.eu/file/tip/firewall.iptables + https://code.zash.se/badxmpp.eu/file/tip/firewall.ip6tables ✏
-
Guus
I was just puzzled why I could connect to drop.badxmpp
-
Zash
> The hostnames are all aliases for the same physical machine, I guess? VPS but yes ↺
-
Zash
Can't do stuff with many IPs, it's sharing Prosody with xmpp:conference.prosody.im which listens on the default ports, which I don't want to block :)✎ -
Zash
Can't do stuff with many IPs we only have the one v4 and one v6. It's sharing Prosody with xmpp:conference.prosody.im which listens on the default ports, which I don't want to block :) ✏
-
Guus
Understandable, and not a big deal. Like I said, this might actually turn out to be helpful.
-
moparisthebest
> Is there a server/service available out there that reliably takes a _long_ time to accept a socket connection? I'm trying to test a feature that interrupts a socket connection attempt mid-flight, but am having trouble testing it. Guus: there's a tool for that https://github.com/tylertreat/Comcast ↺
-
Guus
hehe, I thought you were suggesting me to subscribe to a crappy ISP :)
-
moparisthebest
I mean that would work too but seems a bit extreme 😁
-
debacle
Implement Jabber in-app payments and get funded: https://ps.s10y.eu/@NGI_Taler/113248494527530669 Good luck!
-
moparisthebest
Lol taler, stop trying to make it happen, we already have Bitcoin
-
Menel
It's something different, It's not competing imo. Not like all the other blockchain stuff
-
moparisthebest
many nostr clients implement in app payments they call "zaps" which are simply Bitcoin lightning transfers, that's what XMPP needs, not some centralized crap no one will ever use
-
Menel
Bitcoin is too centralized for me
-
moparisthebest
Menel: website says the goal is privacy preserving electronic micropayments between people, that's 100% what Bitcoin is, except it's actually used, open source, federated, and permissionless like XMPP
-
moparisthebest
At least one XMPP muc I'm in even has a bot to let new users voice themselves via lightning payment
-
rom1dep
And why not both? If Bitcoin has demonstrated one thing, it's not going anywhere near something widespread and useful anytime soon
-
moparisthebest
Uses this https://gitea.kosmos.org/raucao/xmpp-lightning-antispam
-
singpolyma
> many nostr clients implement in app payments they call "zaps" which are simply Bitcoin lightning transfers, that's what XMPP needs, not some centralized crap no one will ever use They built a wallet into the app or what do they do? ↺
-
moparisthebest
rom1dep: taler has never been used once and depends on govts who don't want payment privacy to adopt Bitcoin has been heavily used for over a decade
-
moparisthebest
taler is like, govt mandated WhatsApp Bitcoin is XMPP
-
singpolyma
Also taler is basically a baby ripple and there are deployed ripple implementations people actually use
-
singpolyma
(including lighting which is also a baby ripple)
-
moparisthebest
>> many nostr clients implement in app payments they call "zaps" which are simply Bitcoin lightning transfers, that's what XMPP needs, not some centralized crap no one will ever use > They built a wallet into the app or what do they do? singpolyma: tl;dr simply lightning invoices transmitted, it'd be very simple to do this with XMPP https://nostr.how/en/zaps ↺
-
rom1dep
> rom1dep: taler has never been used once and depends on govts who don't want payment privacy to adopt > > Bitcoin has been heavily used for over a decade They serve different purposes, and one, by its existence and use, doesn't hinder the other. Most people want payments that are easy, versatile and error proof, Bitcoin isn't any of this
-
singpolyma
There does not (and probably cannot) exist a payment system that is all of those 😄
-
singpolyma
But I think we're drifting off topic for jdev
-
debacle
> Lol taler, stop trying to make it happen, we already have Bitcoin Taler is a payment method, Bitcoin is a currency. I imagin you can use Taler to pay using Bitcoin. If I want/have to pay in Euro, I could you Taler.✎ ↺ -
debacle
> Lol taler, stop trying to make it happen, we already have Bitcoin Taler is a payment method, Bitcoin is a currency. I imagin you can use Taler to pay using Bitcoin. If I want/have to pay in Euro, I could use Taler. ✏ ↺
-
moparisthebest
> Most people want payments that are easy, versatile and error proof, Bitcoin isn't any of this Bitcoin is all of these, right now, not in some possible future
-
rom1dep
> There does not (and probably cannot) exist a payment system that is all of those 😄 Some systems make it as easy as uploading a IBAN against a URL the sender provided, or scanning a Qr code, versatile is where you don't have to assume the recipient has to install anything new, and error proof is where you don't lose access to your money when you change or break device, or are inevitably become a scamer's target. > But I think we're drifting off topic for jdev Yeah, sorry for that.
-
wgreenhouse
I don't think payment is desirable in xmpp (as a xep) or as a client feature. surely people can use xmpp if they wish already to pass addresses or equivalent needed to make payments without deeply integrating that into the software.
-
rom1dep
> I don't think payment is desirable in xmpp (as a xep) or as a client feature. surely people can use xmpp if they wish already to pass addresses or equivalent needed to make payments without deeply integrating that into the software. Agreed
-
wgreenhouse
that goes for taler or btc btw. just not needed, out of scope
-
rom1dep
Practically I already pay my train tickets over XMPP if by that I mean receiving the URL to the payment page 🙂
-
wgreenhouse
right, same, occasionally :)
-
moparisthebest
Is it out of scope? In my ideal world 100% of my contacts are on XMPP so why would I want to try to link their identity a separate way to exchange money?
-
rom1dep
Because that's what the majority needs
-
moparisthebest
JMP.chat should be able to send me an invoice monthly for my service and I should be able to click "pay", not copy+paste or navigate to a website or type in anything
-
wgreenhouse
what is the big deal about copying a BTC address (or your OS lettibg you click on it to open your wallet app)
-
moparisthebest
If you've been paying attention you've noticed the rest of the world is quickly migrating to proprietary payment apps for everything, which I want no part of
-
rom1dep
jmp.chat could use paylib.fr, ideal.nl, ... there, solved
-
moparisthebest
It's easy mom! Just copy and paste this and... I've already lost her
-
wgreenhouse
moparisthebest: I don't want payments in messengers because that will 95% of the time only scam old people
-
debacle
At least makers of Signal and Nostr (sounds like the chat system of the Sicilian Mafia) seem to think, that chat system and payment service can live together. Not sure, if they are positive or negative examples, though.
-
wgreenhouse
debacle: they
-
moparisthebest
> jmp.chat could use paylib.fr, ideal.nl, ... there, solved Do I need to visit a website, have an account, or type anything in? Then it's already way worse and bad ↺
-
wgreenhouse
arw very mistaken
-
wgreenhouse
in fact signal was heavily criticized for that
-
rom1dep
> If you've been paying attention you've noticed the rest of the world is quickly migrating to proprietary payment apps for everything, which I want no part of Your bank is also using a bunch of proprietary things. What you propose is a banks-free world, and that's not for everyone
-
wgreenhouse
(and not only for floating a shitcoin)
-
moparisthebest
Signal is a bad example just like this taler thing, trying to poorly reinvent something that already works better
-
rom1dep
>> jmp.chat could use paylib.fr, ideal.nl, ... there, solved > Do I need to visit a website, have an account, or type anything in? Then it's already way worse and bad Just a URL, then you use the payment mean you prefer and it opens on whatever you have selected
-
moparisthebest
>> If you've been paying attention you've noticed the rest of the world is quickly migrating to proprietary payment apps for everything, which I want no part of > Your bank is also using a bunch of proprietary things. What you propose is a banks-free world, and that's not for everyone rom1dep: banks can still exist, but you don't *have* to use them, which is ideal (just like WhatsApp exists using XMPP but you can instead run your own XMPP server) ↺
-
rom1dep
That's what I keep repeating, both must coexist, because my aunt isn't a cryptopunk
-
moparisthebest
Signal & Matrix: poorly reinvents XMPP SignalCoin & Taler: poorly reinvents Bitcoin I'm starting to notice a pattern...
-
debacle
> > If you've been paying attention you've noticed the rest of the world is quickly migrating to proprietary payment apps for everything, which I want no part of > Your bank is also using a bunch of proprietary things. What you propose is a banks-free world, and that's not for everyone Taler is not "banks-free", it is just a payment technology, in which banks are very important. If it is a good idea to combine it with a chat service, well, not sure. But being able to transfer some Euro to a known contact without having to ask about their IBAN would be useful for me. ↺
-
wgreenhouse
debacle: you'll probably still have to ask about their IBAN unless I can ash out the Taler on my end
-
wgreenhouse
s/ash/cash/
-
wgreenhouse
that doesn't seem to be an xmpp issue either way
-
debacle
Sure, it only works, if both parties annouce their talerability using disco or whatever.✎ -
debacle
Sure, it only works, if both parties announce their talerability using disco or whatever. ✏
-
moparisthebest
Right, and that's why Taler will never happen: 1. It requires support from govt which wants full control over money transfers https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/09/mps-vote-to-cap-cash-purchases-at-e3000-tighter-than-eu-limit/ 2. It requires support from banks who already make money on money transfers so it's literally taking their profit
-
moparisthebest
Just like I'd be against chat controlled by govt I'm against currency controlled by govt. Open, federated protocols are the future I want, Bitcoin is XMPP, XMPP is Bitcoin. ;)
- Guus throws garlic at moparisthebest
- debacle even being atheist, holds a cross
-
debacle
Still, XMPP could be used for any kind of payments, Bitcoin, Taler, whatever, as long as both parties know which methods and currencies they do support.
-
moparisthebest
I still find it hard to believe people pro-xmpp are anti-bitcoin but 🤷♂️ 100% identical in my mind
-
debacle
But Taler has some funding right now ;-)
-
moparisthebest
Bitcoin has had funding for 15 years though... :P and is, you know, actually used. /rant
-
debacle
I mean: Funding for others, which could be used by XMPP developers.
-
debacle
I'm not going to apply, so please somebody else take their money!
-
moparisthebest
> I mean: Funding for others, which could be used by XMPP developers. debacle: me too, eg https://hrf.org/devfund would likely fund integrating lightning payments into XMPP ↺
-
moparisthebest
https://opensats.org/apply looks like another
-
singpolyma
> debacle: you'll probably still have to ask about their IBAN unless I can ash out the Taler on my end You don't "cash out" taler it's just a bank transfer into your bank account in the end ↺
-
Cynthia
taler is just like mastercard/visa
-
Cynthia
also bitcoin is a shitcoin nowadays (huge fees, etc.)
-
Cynthia
it's barely usable since transactions take over a day or so to confirm
-
singpolyma
> taler is just like mastercard/visa It's more like SEPA, and better than either of course ↺
-
Menel
Ah you're still on _that_ topic here.
-
moparisthebest
Cynthia: Bitcoin over lightning is instant and basically free, onchain isn't bad these days either
-
Cynthia
lightning is just a hack
-
moparisthebest
Lol I don't know what to say to that, it's been working great for years 🤷♂️
-
Cynthia
last time i used bitcoin was in 2017, i didn't need lightning to send people bitcoins
-
Cynthia
now i guess apparently i do
-
singpolyma
Nah, I don't bother with it on chain works fine
-
Cynthia
i moved on to monero, it works fine and it's future-proof (along with being private)
-
Cynthia
with a dynamic block size, so the chain doesn't choke with billions of transactions
-
moparisthebest
You don't, onchain fees got a bit high in like 2021 but not anymore But lightning is the way to instantly, privately, and cheaply pay people
-
moparisthebest
Cynthia: for a concrete example the last time I sent $6 USD worth of BTC over lightning, it was instant and the fee was 1 sat which is $0.00062 USD
-
Cynthia
anyway, taler is just gonna be controlled by govs just like mastercard and visa
-
Cynthia
which is gonna be really terrible
-
singpolyma
s/govs/banks but yes of course
-
moparisthebest
same thing 🙃
-
Cynthia
govs and banks alike
-
singpolyma
If it ever gets off the ground which I doubt because banks prefer to use worse protocols
-
Cynthia
my country is a massive dick in that regard
-
Cynthia
they nerfed paypal, wise, and other services
-
Cynthia
because they don't want people to use paypal as some secondary bank that they can't get a cut from✎ -
Cynthia
because they don't want people to use paypal or wise as some secondary bank that they can't get a cut from ✏
-
moparisthebest
> If it ever gets off the ground which I doubt because banks prefer to use worse protocols Exactly this, otherwise how can they track you and sell your data ↺
-
Cynthia
and they wanna control money that comes in and out
-
moparisthebest
Mandated to by law even
-
Cynthia
so they made a deal with paypal to not allow people to normally withdraw or deposit money
-
Cynthia
instead they had to do it with a bank's service dedicated to that, which is more slower, and takes a much higher fee
-
Cynthia
so i wouldn't prefer the same situation with that with taler
-
moparisthebest
open protocols & code is the only escape, that's why I'm here anyway
-
Cynthia
i use cryptocurrencies and open protocols to escape my country's excessive need for control
-
Cynthia
not to have it yet again
-
moparisthebest
Right, which is my guess on why most XMPP devs don't see a need yet, most have grown up with the privilege of a stable currency
-
Cynthia
my country has cryptocurrencies banned because of this
-
Cynthia
it doesn't let them control or take money from people, so they have to ban it and give people massive fines for it
-
Cynthia
if they know someone who uses it and has a lot of money in it
-
yvo
> Right, which is my guess on why most XMPP devs don't see a need yet, most have grown up with the privilege of a stable currency true, xmpp devs are mostly from wealthy countries ↺
-
Menel
Sounds like you all want to fix non working democracies with technology
-
moparisthebest
That's the only way right Menel ? See: the printing press
-
moparisthebest
Also, the internet
-
Menel
Didn't see how that all improves it.
-
wgreenhouse
> Sounds like you all want to fix non working democracies with technology Menel: not I, I think it can't be done
-
wgreenhouse
(technologically or not)
-
wgreenhouse
we can definitely use technology to make democracy function _less_ however
-
moparisthebest
Europeans: use technology to fix their govts Also Europeans to others: you can't use technology to fix your govts 🤣
-
rom1dep
> I still find it hard to believe people pro-xmpp are anti-bitcoin but 🤷♂️ 100% identical in my mind I haven't seen anyone being against bitcoin/crypto-currencies there. But you should probably have realized by now that they won't become mainstream in this lifetime. What makes them valuable to you makes them impractical or irrelevant to others. Oh, and since you seem to be thinking that your own government is the enemy here, I have bad news being the one to tell you that they will probably know much more about your spending the more you use bitcoin ↺
-
wgreenhouse
moparisthebest: on balance, the printing press was good for starting religious wars and splitting states, and only occasionally helped democracies get started -- is my point mostly it will amplify existing social badness because as st. wm. gibson observed, the future is unevenly distributed
-
wgreenhouse
and it's usually existing elites who get to live in the future
-
moparisthebest
rom1dep: you've entirely missed the point I'm afraid. We use XMPP instead of silos because silos can change from good to evil instantly. So it doesn't matter if you trust your silo and they are good *now*. Why do people constantly forget govts are the same way? It's rather silly
-
moparisthebest
It's great you were able to grow up under a decent stable govt. Did your parents? What about their grandparents? Probably not. It wasn't very long ago.
-
rom1dep
I am fortunate that my government is elected, but I am not a stakeholder in facebook, google, etc
-
rom1dep
I am all in favour of distributing power/control/whatever and DIYing as much stuff as possible, but at one point you must trust some institutions/governmental bodies/…
-
rom1dep
the only thing making it tolerable is the leverage our collective votes and voices bear
-
wgreenhouse
rom1dep: unconditional trust is not required; you can instead e.g. trust states to be states, police to be police, etc.
-
wgreenhouse
their behavior is determined by their nature
-
Cynthia
Menel: not even a democracy here
-
wgreenhouse
but will never align with your interest exactly
-
rom1dep
and tech is only a tiny piece of a larger power structure, over-fixation on it is productive to only an extent
-
wgreenhouse
correct.
-
moparisthebest
Again missing the point, it's great your current govt is elected and you can have a say. You realize that govt can be replaced tommorow right? It literally happens constantly all over the world
-
Cynthia
my govt is not elected
-
Cynthia
it's a monarchy, and i'd be glad for a coup or some shit
-
wgreenhouse
rom1dep: as I said, mostly consumer technology has the power to make stuff even worse. I agree it's a superstructure
-
Cynthia
but you wouldn't catch me saying that publicly
-
rom1dep
> Again missing the point, it's great your current govt is elected and you can have a say. You realize that govt can be replaced tommorow right? It literally happens constantly all over the world yep. And that day you have bigger fish to fry, believe me ↺
-
moparisthebest
rom1dep: sure, but you'd say eg communication would be helpful for you there right?
-
rom1dep
totally
-
moparisthebest
So would money
-
Cynthia
anyway i am grateful for technology that is independent from government control
-
Cynthia
i don't think the government should be trusted, and thus that's why i'm for open protocol and code
-
rom1dep
and again, I feel like you are dragging me into an ad absurdum fallacy here, it's not because I believe that not everything can happen over bitcoin that I am against bitcoin
-
moparisthebest
wgreenhouse: I don't think we disagree, all tech is used for bad and good, printing press and internet and XMPP are vital but can also be used for misinformation, money the same way But open is better than closed
-
Cynthia
rom1dep: i think that's false, i don't trust any part of my government
-
Cynthia
not even law enforcement, not even public "services" (if they exist), etc.
-
moparisthebest
rom1dep: you don't have a pressing need for Bitcoin right now, I get it. But some do, like Cynthia
-
rom1dep
> i don't think the government should be trusted, and thus that's why i'm for open protocol and code nobody should think that, especially in democratic countries ↺
-
Cynthia
all of it is as corrupt as it can be
-
Cynthia
> > i don't think the government should be trusted, and thus that's why i'm for open protocol and code > nobody should think that, especially in democratic countries you think some governments, especially dictatorships, will like you more if you trust them?
-
Cynthia
they'll backstab you when you least expect them
-
Cynthia
not trusting them makes you less suspectible to that
-
rom1dep
> rom1dep: you don't have a pressing need for Bitcoin right now, I get it. But some do, like Cynthia right, but we are shifting goalposts here. You want bitcoin everywhere, and all I'm saying is that it won't happen (because its qualities entail flaws that most people can't stand), and you read that I am against bitcoin or something ↺
-
yvo
> nobody should think that, especially in democratic countries rom1dep this is what you said
-
Cynthia
saying "nobody should think that" makes it way too obvious you live in a first-world bubble
-
yvo
😁️
-
moparisthebest
rom1dep: do you not want XMPP everywhere? Aren't we here working to eliminate those flaws?
-
Cynthia
and saying that it can be solved by voting
-
Cynthia
it would need much much more than voting to solve the problems here
-
Cynthia
and it is the solution that your ancestors have done many decades ago
-
Cynthia
overthrow and kill, civil war, etc.
-
rom1dep
> > > i don't think the government should be trusted, and thus that's why i'm for open protocol and code > > nobody should think that, especially in democratic countries > you think some governments, especially dictatorships, will like you more if you trust them? I am only saying that being suspicious of your representatives is the basis of sound democracy. If you aren't, it's just the same as accepting a tyrant's rule ↺
-
yvo
you have to work hard to keep freedom
👍 1 -
yvo
without working hard you drift back to dictatorship
👍 1 -
moparisthebest
Europeans 1800: literally cut off the heads of their royal families to free themselves from tyranny Europeans 2000: don't do that just vote bro
-
yvo
^^
-
Cynthia
> Europeans 1800: literally cut off the heads of their royal families to free themselves from tyranny > Europeans 2000: don't do that just vote bro this is literally what i'm talking about
-
Cynthia
people think that it can all be solved by peacefully voting or whatever, not knowing that the freedoms they're entitled to are the result of their ancestors violently murdering dictators and civil wars
-
Cynthia
people tried that here too, you know what's the difference? they LOST
-
Cynthia
and the government, the current rulers won, and so we still get to suffer
-
rom1dep
> saying "nobody should think that" makes it way too obvious you live in a first-world bubble nobody should think that governments should be trusted, do you have a problem with that? It's the same as saying that nobody should think that things are going to remain the way they are. It's what moparisthebest wrote earlier about something good one day possibly turning bad the other. Based on history I think it's a rather pragmatic and realistic take, not necessarily a sign of privilege 🤷️ ↺
-
Cynthia
> > saying "nobody should think that" makes it way too obvious you live in a first-world bubble > nobody should think that governments should be trusted, do you have a problem with that? > It's the same as saying that nobody should think that things are going to remain the way they are. > It's what moparisthebest wrote earlier about something good one day possibly turning bad the other. > Based on history I think it's a rather pragmatic and realistic take, not necessarily a sign of privilege 🤷️ oh, then you didn't make it clear
-
Cynthia
nobody should think that governments should be trusted
-
Cynthia
and nobody should trust governments
-
Cynthia
and frankly, there is no peaceful way of achieving freedom for a country
-
Cynthia
but anyway, we should think about technology that allow us to be independent from government control, and ensure freedom outside their knowledge
-
Cynthia
even if we may be living in first-world countries where you don't have to worry about that
-
rom1dep
yup, totally
-
yvo
> even if we may be living in first-world countries where you don't have to worry about that you have to ↺
-
Cynthia
i'm saying in a hypothetical situation
-
rom1dep
teaching to worry about that is the best ammo against regressive changes
-
Cynthia
🤣 1i have to worry about that all the time, most of the stuff i'm doing is considered a crie✎ -
Cynthia
i have to worry about that all the time, most of the stuff i'm doing is considered a crime here ✏
-
yvo
My child is currently hunted by the German Child Protection Service for having protected himself against bullying at school with the help of the police: https://kanoa.de/@frodo
-
yvo
We heavily rely on XMPP, jitsi meet etc
-
yvo
Dunno how to survive this otherwiese✎ -
yvo
Dunno how to survive this otherwise ✏
-
yvo
so even in the wealthy western countries
-
yvo
there can be many circumstances where you need the techn protection.
-
rom1dep
> My child is currently hunted by the German Child Protection Service for having protected himself against bullying at school with the help of the police: https://kanoa.de/@frodo 😮️ ↺
-
Cynthia
"I am NOT WHITE" how can i tell this guy lives in europe without knowing that he lives in europe
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Cynthia
(making a joke about police racial bias)
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yvo
^^ my child has just a little dark touch like an Italian
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yvo
so not white is way exaggerated
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yvo
but you are treated like that
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Cynthia
this room has more europeans than i thought
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rom1dep
yvo: I don't know about your circumstances, but there must be some legal recourse and associations willing to support you
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Cynthia
i'd like to see some americans or someone else
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Cynthia
other than europeans
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yvo
> yvo: I don't know about your circumstances, but there must be some legal recourse and associations willing to support you have found only an American Pschologist which helps ↺
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moparisthebest
Cynthia: Americans are here 🇺🇲
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yvo
All the Germany institutions, lawyers, anti-discr NGOs act very strange
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yvo
My child documented it a bit on mastodon: no replies by many he mailed to
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Cynthia
yvo: racial bias
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yvo
yes
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Cynthia
i'm not surprised really
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rom1dep
> this room has more europeans than i thought pleading guilty of living in Europe, that said, I haven't lived in the country I was born for more than a decade, and lived in half a dozen countries in between ↺
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yvo
nice
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yvo
> i'm not surprised really haha ↺
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Cynthia
for example, if you look north african, people are gonna think you're just some welfare leech
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Cynthia
or illegal immigrant, or both
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Cynthia
moparisthebest: yay
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yvo
Cynthia, both of course but they enjoy if you bring them their pizza fast / cheap✎ -
yvo
Cynthia, both of course but they enjoy if you bring them their pizza fast & cheap ✏
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Cynthia
yes of course, just like nahel