jdev - 2025-10-17

> As it should be It should not

People should think in terms of protocol abilities, not client abilities

a real open protocol like XMPP has no limits so "protocol abilities" doesn't make sense, since there are infinite

Otherwise we will soon have a bunch of non-interoperable silos

yes open protocols allow for that or they wouldn't be open

moparisthebest, i was thinking more about "what XEPs do we have now that aren't forgotten by everyone since the 90's"

why would or should anyone think about that

Users and even developers think in terms of features they want, if it doesn't exist you can make it so, a xep alone is worthless

> yes open protocols allow for that or they wouldn't be open And that's not a good property for an open protocol, IMO

I'd go with something like "if you use Quicksy, you can also chat with people that use Snikket or Prav"

Having an open protocol that makes silos and walled gardens impossible to implement would be awesome

>> yes open protocols allow for that or they wouldn't be open > And that's not a good property for an open protocol, IMO if that wasn't allowed it wouldn't be an open protocol ↺

moparisthebest, nope, it still is

(just like GPL is still a free software license no matter what BSD/MIT fans think)

Openness is less about the developers and more about the users

Is there a group for organising to promote XMPP?

> I'd go with something like "if you use Quicksy, you can also chat with people that use Snikket or Prav" And that would implicitly exclude every other server and client out there

*and many others (link)

> I'd go with something like "if you use Quicksy, you can also chat with people that use Snikket or Prav" this is how i plan to position my client ↺

oasis is x with y features, heres why you should use it, its powered by xmpp which means you can message users on other xmpp based apps

> this is how i plan to position my client And i don't plan to position my client at all 'cus i'm completely against the idea of advertisement and marketing :) ↺

i mean is having a website advertising and marketing

Well, it depends on what it says…

Anything too much outside of "Here's the thing, here's what it does, good luck" can be considered one

what a strange take

Well, i firmly believe that any kind of promotion, advertisement and marketing are absolutely evil and must not exist

The only one acceptable is when individual users neutrally recommend the thing to other individuals

> Well, i firmly believe that any kind of promotion, advertisement and marketing are absolutely evil and must not exist if you really mean this, then this message is really hypocritical, since the message itself is promoting the opinion that all promotion is evil 🧌 ↺

i agree that specifically for-profit promotion/marketing/etc isn't great, but if you really mean "_any kind_", then you're just saying that sharing opinions in general is an absolute evil ✏

> (just like GPL is still a free software license no matter what BSD/MIT fans think) alexkurisu: yep, and GPL software can be used to make a silo ↺

> i mean is having a website advertising and marketing 👍 ↺

> 02:42:17 franco> Is there a group for organising to promote XMPP? In the XSF there is the comm team: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/comm-team/

>> so a bridge? > yeah, in the form of a Matrix Application Service Out of curiosity what are the technical reasons for a matrix application service as opposed to an XMPP component or third party bridge? (Like biboumi or matrix2051) ↺

> Out of curiosity what are the technical reasons for a matrix application service as opposed to an XMPP component or third party bridge? (Like biboumi or matrix2051) im not them, but in general an "appservice" is just the matrix version of an xmpp "component" ↺

it just doesnt get a special subdomain or whatever

so if youre trying to puppet a normal matrix account you would have an xmpp component, but if you want to bridge 2 rooms you need a matrix appservice and xmpp component

hi, I have been reading https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0490.html and if I am not missing something, this covers the synchronization of which messages from what conversations **I** have read up to, right? I was wondering how could I get in sync with what others have read up to of my messages. Other than storing displayed markers in the MAM... How are markers sent while offline processed and synced? Thanks

Displayed markers should be in mam no?

Why would storing Display markers in mam not ok? You receive data from other users via messages, I dont see another solution

Well, maybe we're doing something wrong or inefficient, but markers end up using lot of space in DB. Do you run any clean up process to drop old markers?

I keep every message stanza for the past decade or so personally

marc0s: do you have data on this ? If you feel it is necessary to shrink your db, cleaning all markers should be a simple SQL cleanup job

lovetox: not right now, afk, but yeah, I suppose we could clean them up. There's also no much sense in keeping lots of them for the very same conversations either...

lovetox, FWIW, the system I'm working on at the moment has mostly groupchats of N people, with markers in MAM, and that means for every message there's N copies *and* N*N markers responding to it. (And, joy, we must keep everything for something like 7 years for audit). So it does add up, certainly.

You're putting group chat messages in personal mam?

Yeah. Long story.

> I keep every message stanza for the past decade or so personally singpolyma, just curious how large is this database? (as in megabytes/gigabytes) ↺