jdev - 2026-03-20

> Jingle sessions are initiated between the real JIDs of participants, since IQ routing is not guaranteed to work in Multi-User Chat am i right in understanding that muji (0272) can't be used in semi-anonymous rooms? and if so, are there workarounds? could coin (0298) be used here, by having everyone just call the muc service and it relaying the relevant information? or am i missing something? i'm not terribly familiar with jingle

it can but it shouldn't be able to lol

right now you can MUC PM nicks with jingle initiation and current clients will start ringing like the MUC is calling you, it's bad, MUCs need to stop forwarding most PMs

we only need morph to start harassing devs with this to get it fixed

Muji is designed to work in semi anon rooms which is why it uses MUC PM. But I expect this will stop working eventually and Muji isn't really practical anyway for what people expect out of a group call IMHO

The "right solution" you guess at, call a jid that represents an SFU and support multiple streams in one call

> right now you can MUC PM nicks with jingle initiation and current clients will start ringing like the MUC is calling you, it's bad, MUCs need to stop forwarding most PMs Yeah the fact that some clients don't show the nick of who is calling is an unfortunate bug ↺

snit, for Muji you use a specific MUC to coordinate the call (not in a random chat MUC) and since you need the real JID for the Jingle streams anyway, it would be pointless making that MUC semi-/anonymous

i figured that, if the MUC service supported it, everyone could call the MUC's JID as if it were a 1:1 call, and then the MUC could use COIN to send everyone the actual participant information, presumably with occupant IDs or MUC nicks. i also hadn't seen the bit about MUC PM in the XEP (only thing i see is the quote i sent)

>> right now you can MUC PM nicks with jingle initiation and current clients will start ringing like the MUC is calling you, it's bad, MUCs need to stop forwarding most PMs > > Yeah the fact that some clients don't show the nick of who is calling is an unfortunate bug well not showing the nick is one bug, not being able to block the nick from repeatedly calling you forever is another ↺

had to google what an SFU was but i guess that's what i was assuming the MUC could do with COIN if i'm understanding that correctly

i guess it doesn't have to be a MUC though on further thought it could be its own thing 🤔

i thought it kinda made more sense to have a distinct group calls component, easier to implement and maps more cleanly to what you expect from other platforms

though i guess closer to discord and the like, wheras signal and whatsapp and such are more you call the group

> had to google what an SFU was but i guess that's what i was assuming the MUC could do with COIN if i'm understanding that correctly Yes you don't need coin but something like it to provide metadata is likely useful of course ↺

> though i guess closer to discord and the like, wheras signal and whatsapp and such are more you call the group its nice being attached to MUC though since then the mutes like me have a place to yap ↺

slack and zoom is more you start a call and people can join if they want, seems to make more sense than ringing people

And yeah. Can be a muc or not depending on other needs

> slack and zoom is more you start a call and people can join if they want, seems to make more sense than ringing people yeah thats more what i had in mind ↺

would fit nicely with spaces, if you had some mechanism to allow certain users to create a call arbitrarily

> slack and zoom is more you start a call and people can join if they want, seems to make more sense than ringing people i definitely think in the context of groups it should work like that, regardless of if its attached to a MUC ↺

> Yes you don't need coin but something like it to provide metadata is likely useful of course is there another standard mechanism for this? ↺

I'm not sure coin actually defines the things one needs. But the basics are fine without it and once we get that working adding coin or anything else for the polish is hardly the hard part

yeah from my understanding you can just get all the audio/video streams regardless, so i assume coin is just to tell you who each stream belongs to? what else would you need/want for this to work, out of curiosity?

Yes exactly metadata xep is to label streams

so multi stream support in clients is important. And the relevant server component of course needs to exist