jdev - 2026-07-06

> I'm guessing this room now has manually-approved voice? hm , that seems not the case here if voice doesnt mean calls ↺

anyways , sorry if this is inappropriate for here but how much stuff can be done p2p with xmpp? is there anything like p2p connection discovery, where i can exchange anything such as message stanza, and profile info?

>> I'm guessing this room now has manually-approved voice? > > hm , that seems not the case here if voice doesnt mean calls Voice means messaging ↺

> anyways , sorry if this is inappropriate for here but how much stuff can be done p2p with xmpp? is there anything like p2p connection discovery, where i can exchange anything such as message stanza, and profile info? someone should correct me if im wrong, but i _believe_ you can do basically anything p2p through jingle xml streams, but ofc both sides would have to support such a means of communication for it to work ↺

but the more of the protocol you just offload into a jingle stream, the more i do wonder if you actually want xmpp here as opposed to a natively-p2p protocol

XMPP is also a p2p protocol if you want it to be, but in practise most devices and networks end up needing a server which is why almost no pure p2p protocols are widely used

Centralized systems are just simpler, and part of that practice is imposed by corpos (like notifications on android and especially iphone)

Also pure P2P have a dilemma to solve (aka. where to bootstrap swarm from)

DNS of course, which is what the pure P2P XMPP s2s protocol does

XMPP is actually horrible as a P2P protocol (if everyone hosted their own server)

Clients don't have to have good uptime, but servers must have near 100% uptime for stuff like offline delivery to work

Otherwise it'll just be like IRC

that's how p2p works, yes

if your device isn't on 100% of the time and you're p2p, then you lose messages

Yes

which is why in practise p2p protocols end up with server style storage

pure p2p isn't what people what, turns out

Imagine wanting to message someone and waiting until they come online so you can actually send them a message

I don't have to imagine. I'm old enogh to have experienced it every day 🙂

That's been the IRC experience to me :P (minus MemoServ which is just like server-style storage)

smh just broadcast all of your dms to the entire network for everyone to hold onto until one of them can deliver them to the recipient

this is a good idea with no privacy issues whatsoever

> XMPP is actually horrible as a P2P protocol (if everyone hosted their own server) it's a good one and simply servers retrying sending messages for a time like SMTP is the only thing missing from it being great, luckily that doesn't even require protocol just someone to write the code ↺

> retry sending messages for a time like SMTP

We don't have to replicate the worst part of hosting a Matrix server :P

Former Matrix servers being spammed with HTTP requests from other servers thinking they're still alive

do you have another suggestion ? for reference "like SMTP" means retry sends with exponential backoff for ~4 days max

> Also pure P2P have a dilemma to solve (aka. where to bootstrap swarm from) "Keep a few bootstrap nodes running" isn't a dilemma > that's how p2p works, yes > if your device isn't on 100% of the time and you're p2p, then you lose messages Not inherently. It's not theoretically impossible for a p2p app to store and sync history. I believe jami even does this to some limited extent.

is it currently common (in non-anon MUC) to include the true jid in the message stanza *only* when coming from MAM?

singpolyma, I believe so