SouLBecause SwissJabber was the only server I could find that allowed like 500 people in a MUC or something like that
SouLOr could handle
SouLWhatever you use to describe the participants limit :D
Link MauveSouL, are there many servers with a limit?
MarandaDon't look here.
MarandaLimiting sounds like +l on IRC, that's why "handling" is better than "allowed"
Link MauveAre you expecting scaling issues in MUC?
MarandaYes, are you not?
Link MauveGiven the very small amount of resources used normally by my servers, no.
SouLLink Mauve, I don't know actually. At that time I didn't even had my own server or anything. So I just kept browsing public servers with Psi+ until I found that one, when modifying the MUC settings, the limit would be really big, compared to the ones I used to use.
Link MauveSouL, at least in Prosody, there is no limit setting.
MarandaHmm each message or presence stanza sent to the muc *needs* to get reflected 700 times, does that ring a bell?
Marandajust to begin with.
Link MauveMaranda, so you’re expecting 700 packets to take your network to its knees?
Ge0rGpresence traffic on a MUC is O(N²)
HolgerLink Mauve: Prosody has MUC traffic limits I keep running into with legitimate traffic, though.
Ge0rGmod_muc_limits is absolutely inadequate.
Link MauveHolger, you mean mod_muc_limit, the one limiting the amount of concurrent messages?
Ge0rGThe queue is filled up with CSNs and then your actual messages are rejected.
HolgerLink Mauve: Probably. I just receive the error stanzas :-)
Link MauveNote that this is a community module, not part of the server.
Link MauveIf operators use it, they’re on their own.
HolgerLink Mauve: So there's some Prosody user in the community who believes that MUC scalability might be an issue :-)
HolgerLink Mauve: If they don't, they're not on their own? :-)
Link MauveHolger, AFAIK, it’s not a solution to scalability, but a solution to random spammers who used to flood MUCs.
HolgerDoS against MUC is easy because MUC doesn't scale.
MarandaJust that that the rtc of most public traffic (presence and messages) in is O(N^2) as Ge0rG pointed out, is enough to tell you how well MUC scales Link Mauve.
Link MauveMaranda, rtc?
MarandaI think you don't need another reason.
MarandaRunning Time Complexity?
Marandatbh while mod_muc_limits isn't perfect it looked to always be one of the few viable solutions to muc servers not getting brought down to their knees by a DoS.
Marandaso I wouldn't really spit on it.
Ge0rGI'm not spitting on it, it's in use on my server. But I wish somebody would improve it.
MarandaThe improvements I made to it, was making the limit ratio configurable by room (with muc pluggable config), but I'm confident that could be in Prosody's as well.
MarandaBut I'm not sure that'd fix any issue
Marandano just room config
Ge0rGMaranda: not in default 0.10 MUC code :(
MarandaGe0rG, https://lightwitch.org/Media/Default/Pictures/muc_limit_config.png -- it also can be (? I don't remember if it's the default) setup to ignore traffic from server buddies (xep-267)
Ge0rGMaranda: way too complicated
SouLI like to be able to configure stuff
Ge0rG`[ ] Configure stuff`
Ge0rG`[ 75%] Stuff Stuffyness`
MarandaGe0rG, also you know that mod_muc_limits doesn't drop stanzas from affiliated members right?