-
nuron
@ping trashserver.net
-
nuron
@ping shreddox.ei
-
Echo1
nuron: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: DNS resolution failed
-
nuron
@ping shreddox.eu
-
Echo1
nuron: Pong from shreddox.eu in 3.253 seconds
-
Echo1
nuron: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: connection-timeout
-
nuron
@ping trashserver.net
-
UsL
Its down. First i thought it was my usual problem with gajim and wicd again.
-
Echo1
nuron: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: connection-timeout
-
nuron
> Its down. First i thought it was my usual problem with gajim and wicd again. Yes, trashserver.net is down. There is a problem with mam_muc module. I think Thomas try to fix it..
-
nuron
Have the same problem with prosody after I updated the modules
-
nuron
@ping trashserver.net
-
Echo1
nuron: Pong from trashserver.net in 4.023 seconds
-
nuron
Its up again
-
MattJ
What problem, do you know?
-
nuron
The mam_muc module doesn't work...
-
Holger
Maybe it's this: <https://hg.prosody.im/prosody-modules/rev/39994c6bb314>?
-
nuron
I will send it Thomas..
-
nuron
Thanks
-
Martin
He just States there is 'a problem' https://social.tchncs.de/@trashserver
-
Martin
And earlier ranted about prosody and MySQL 😃
-
nuron
Of course, because I have texted him that mam muc doesn't work ;)
-
Holger
There are no problems, there are opportunities.
-
Martin
Challenges 😃
-
nuron
We'll see
-
Holger
Martin: Isn't challenges the thing we had 10 years ago, while we've now realized this still sounds way too negative? I might be mixing things up.
-
Martin
Holger: maybe I'm not up to date with these euphemisms
-
Holger
The trashserver admin sees an opportunity to test https://github.com/ortuman/jackal it seems :-)
-
Martin
Lets call everything celebration and try to solve all problems with party and dope 😃
-
Holger
\o/
-
Martin
> The trashserver admin sees an opportunity to test https://github.com/ortuman/jackal it seems :-) It seems he is eveb thinking about getting involved in development
-
Martin
.even
-
nuron
Yes, he is
-
Maranda
MySQL
- Maranda points with enphasis
-
Holger
It's-bad-soo-bad-Postgres-soooo-much-bettta!
-
Maranda
Maybe but since everything supports it while most doesn't support the other
-
SamWhited
I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not, but it really is… if you have a datbase that you've started with that you're forced to use, fair enough. If you're starting fresh and use MySQL you're just asking to lose data.
-
Maranda
I'll just keep swearing in dead languages at it whenever InnoDB tables just decide to corrupt 'emselves
-
Holger
Maranda: Oh I thought this was the rant you were about to make :-) I'm not into SQL engines and don't care.
-
SamWhited
I say that, InnoDB is actually a fairly nice storage backend in a lot of ways. But MySQL's nonsense still makes it not worth using.
-
SamWhited
Mostly innodb won't corruptp itself to my knowledge, but it will decide that you obviously don't know what you're doing with your query and it should make a lot of assumptions and corrupt your data
-
Maranda
SamWhited, *my* query? 😎
-
SamWhited
Everybody's query!
-
Holger
SamWhited: You lost me, InnoDB won't corrupt itself but what?
-
Maranda
The queries aren't *mine* I'd need to ask the web junkies who wrote 'em. But not that it matters much
-
Maranda
PostGRE didn't corrupt with the equivalent queries
-
Holger
SamWhited: You can get it to corrupt data with queries that are bogus in some way? Or with valid queries InnoDB incorrectly considers bogus?
-
SamWhited
Holger: Sorry, I'm just ranting. As an example, mysql in its default mode will happily decide that because you accidentally queried for where intcolumn = '1_whatever' that you *obviously* meant hat to be "where intcolumn = 1" and it will select that and insert data even though your query was a mistake and you were trying to query against a string column or something
-
SamWhited
Holger: with invalid queries that shouldn't run
-
SamWhited
It also ignores constraints in a lot of cases; it's trivial to make non-nullable columns contain an ull.
-
Holger
Ah, I see.
-
SamWhited
It's worth noting that you can turn all this off and that mysql people will swear that this makes it fine… but naturally you have to know that and go to more effort to have any sort of data consistency.
-
Maranda
SamWhited apparently though saving caches in MySQL "is not a thing" while it causes no issues in pgsql
-
SamWhited
Also, the utf-8 type isn't actually wide enough to encode utf-8… so they have another utf-8-for-real-this-time type that does it right… the whole thing really is a joke.
-
SamWhited
Maranda: saving caches? I'm not sure what you meant by that, sounds bad though.
-
Holger
We do that :-)
-
SamWhited
I have wasted a lot of time trying to make things work on mysql… so I'm a bit bitter now :)
-
Holger
With InnoDB.
-
Holger
(Saving/restoring it's main buffer/cache thing on restart, I mean.)
-
SamWhited
ah, gotcha
-
Maranda
I had Orchard storing page caches in MySQL and it was corruption all over until I figured it was that
-
Maranda
The same wouldn't do a thing in PG
-
SamWhited
Interesting; I don't know how innodb stores pages, I'd be curious to know why that lead to corruption.
-
Holger
It seems to work just fine for as. As usual with anecdotal evidence ...
-
Holger
For us even.
-
Holger
(Or maybe we're talking about different features.)
-
Maranda
I don't care about the database (engine), as long as it's supported by the stuff I need to use and doesn't cause hassles.
-
Holger
This is not how flame wars work.
-
Maranda
:P
-
MattJ
One of the ways of making something not cause hassle is making sure you use the right thing for the right job
-
Maranda
On the xmpp server I proudly use flat files for a reason.
-
SamWhited
MySQL in general will cause hassle though… I don't think there's a job it's uniquely suited for. If you want speed, don't use a relational database. If you want data consistency, use a different relational database.
-
Maranda
MattJ, are you trying to citate Scotty on me :P?
-
SamWhited
The only reason to use mysql is because you already have a database that uses it and you're stuck with it.
-
Maranda
SamWhited, or that the stuff you need to use or that people need you to use requires it?
-
SamWhited
Yah, fair
-
SamWhited
Although I'd also consider using other tools at that point; requiring mysql gives me no confidence in your <insert project> or that it won't lose my data.
-
SamWhited
But that's obviously not always an option.
-
Holger
SamWhited: We've been using hints to fix MySQL's optimizer choosing wrong indices for weird corner cases. I hear that's frowned upon in the Postgres universe, Postgres should just always get it right and if it doesn't, post a bug report. Sounds really good to me, except if there's a realistic chance I could run into the situation where I have to post a bug report and wait for a fix.
-
Maranda
SamWhited, I just give you an example, all mainstream web analytics apps (mostly php) don't or badly support pgsql
-
Holger
Of course there may really be enough magic in Postgres that this won't happen in practice, I have no idea.
-
Holger
Apart from that I've seen long lists of reasons to prefer Postgres and not much vice-versa, yes.
-
SamWhited
Holger: I have never had it get it wrong, but if it does I don't think it's impossible to direct it to use a different index, they just ask that you also file a bug report.
-
Maranda
Holger, well posting a bug report about MySQL doesn't work much better either...
-
SamWhited
That being said, the data for most of the projects I've worked on wasn't that complex, so it may have trouble in places. I'm sure it's not right 100% of the time.
-
Holger
SamWhited: As I understood it there's no explicit directive to do that (on purpose). But there may be tricks to do it of course.
-
Maranda
I'm not sure from how much time in practice MySQL workbench migration from Postgres is just plainly broken.
-
Holger
Maranda: My point was that MySQL offers you a workaround for the time until the bug is fixed.
-
SamWhited
Holger: yah, don't listen to me, I thought there was but I don't see it now. Might have been cockroach DB feature that I'm mixing up or something.
-
Maranda
Good thing I'm not a DB expert at all
-
Maranda
:P
-
SamWhited
Does innodb support multicolumn indexes? I've purged my mysql knowledge after leaving a previous job…
-
Holger
Oh yes it does.
-
Holger
SQLite does :-)
-
Maranda
https://upload.lightwitch.org:5280/share/335b8d23-0aca-4a81-966d-0683a9055137/scottySays.jpg
-
Maranda
MattJ, ^
-
Holger
SamWhited: But I have no real doubt that Postgres is probably the superior product. MySQL's success story seems to boil down to "everyone uses it" and that's basically how I got to know it better than Postgres as well.
-
Maranda
Also now it's Oracle's says it all.
-
SamWhited
Holger: yah, it was the same with me the first time I used a database, "well this seems to be what everyone is using, must be the best"
-
SamWhited
It's also "fast", which is why a lot of people like it. But it's speed comes from taking shortcuts that lead to data inconsistency like not checking constraints so you probably want something else if that's why you're using it…
-
SamWhited
Maranda: there's always MariaDB in that case (the non-oracle fork which is actually what I assume people are using for the most part when they say 'mysql' these days)
-
Maranda
and if it's speed me thinks Pgsql10 is faster anyways now
-
SamWhited
When I say we used "MySQL" at a previous job, we were actually on MariaDB I think. I shouldn't conflate the two, but I forget sometimes.
-
SamWhited
err, no, that's not true either, we had both. Gosh I'm forgetting all this.
-
Maranda
SamWhited, except afair MariaDB has no Windows release so I'm stuck with Oracle's :P
-
Maranda
\\o
-
Maranda
o//
-
Holger
SamWhited: True in my case, I meant MariaDB when I said MySQL.
-
nuron
mam_muc error mod_mam_muc should be loaded only on a MUC component, not normal hosts i found this in the prosody logs...
-
nuron
what does it mean?
-
Maranda
what it says.
-
Maranda
that you're trying to load it somewhere which is not a MUC component.
-
nuron
but how can i fix that? i have no idea
-
Maranda
put it in modules_enabled = {} pertaining to (aka below) whatever *Component "..." "muc"* section?
-
Maranda
and not somewhere else or globally or somesuch
-
nuron
I'm sorry my English is not very well. I will try to understand..
-
nuron
I have mam_muc in the modules_enabled list and in the virtual host part... Which one should I delete?
-
SamWhited
nuron: both
-
nuron
Okay
-
SamWhited
Component "conference.example.org" "muc" modules_enabled = { "mam_muc", }
-
nuron
An then?
-
SamWhited
Put it under the "Component" line
-
nuron
Yes, there is it. Between only name, restrict_room_creation and max_history_messages
-
nuron
Component "conference.shreddox.eu" "muc" name = "Shreddox Muc's" restrict_room_creation = false max_history_messages = 100 modules_enabled = { "mam_muc" }
-
nuron
thats the part
-
SamWhited
That one is correct, you can remove the other one.
-
nuron
okay, i've done so. restart prosody now?
-
SamWhited
Yup, that should fix it :)
-
nuron
i'll try
-
nuron
just a second
-
Maranda
no don't restart
-
nuron
so, prosody is up again
-
nuron
lets have a look
-
Maranda
(that's pointless I think)
-
Maranda
.
- Maranda is too slow, and needs a shower.
-
Maranda
brb
-
nuron
why no restart?
-
nuron
there is no mam yet
-
nuron
no mucmam
-
nuron
1:1 mam should work
-
SamWhited
nuron: what version of Prosody is this?
-
nuron
0.10
-
SamWhited
Ah, it's not fully compatible with 0.10. It should work partially, but some clients won't be able to detect it I think
-
nuron
i have updated the modules today a few hours ago and since this update mam_muc dont work..
-
SamWhited
See the note under "Compatibility" here: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_mam_muc.html
-
nuron
but i have used it three month ago and everything works fine
-
nuron
with prosody 0.10 as well
-
SamWhited
I'm not sure when this happened; someone in the prosody room might be able to give you more information
-
nuron
i will check the link first
-
nuron
https://haste.tchncs.de/yujumudolo.pas That was also in the logs
-
nuron
and very often this log: conference.shreddox.eu:mam_muc debug <history xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/muc' since='2018-04-16T18:33:05.221Z'/>
-
nuron
dont know what to do :/
-
Maranda
Apr 16 20:24:26 s2sin76a5ad0 debug Incoming s2s connection Apr 16 20:24:26 s2sin76a5ad0 debug Incoming s2s received <stream:stream version='1.0' xmlns='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams'> Apr 16 20:24:26 mod_s2s debug sending: <?xml version='1.0'?> Apr 16 20:24:26 mod_s2s debug sending: <stream:stream xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' version='1.0' id='28cb310f-b8fb-4398-8527-8c8eabeb4913' xmlns:db='jabber:server:dialback' xmlns='jabber:server'> Apr 16 20:24:26 s2sin76a5ad0 warn No 'to' on stream header from unknown host means we can't offer any features Apr 16 20:24:26 mod_s2s debug Sending stream features: <stream:features/> Apr 16 20:24:26 mod_s2s debug sending: <stream:features> Apr 16 20:24:26 s2sin76a5ad0 debug Received[s2sin_unauthed]: <verify id='167c0bd9' xmlns='jabber:server:dialback' to='lightwitch.org' from='jit.si'>ca4847b1d2223b51899d27cfbce08a44153544b49bfc4ce45ddacfe8b58b8d83</verify>
-
Maranda
wowow
-
Maranda
that's ancient
-
Maranda
@version jit.si
-
Echo1
Maranda: jit.si is running Openfire version 3.10.3 on Linux 4.4.0-22-generic (amd64) - Java 1.8.0_91
-
SamWhited
nuron: I'd ask in the prosody room, they're more likely to be able to help you.
-
SamWhited
xmpp:prosody@conference.prosody.im?join
-
nuron
im allready there ;)
-
Maranda
Hmm I almost thought it was jabberd, but I vaguely remember OF doing it to verify dialback streams (or some such)