XMPP Service Operators - 2018-04-16

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  186. nuron @ping trashserver.net
  187. nuron @ping shreddox.ei
  188. Echo1 nuron: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: DNS resolution failed
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  190. nuron @ping shreddox.eu
  191. Echo1 nuron: Pong from shreddox.eu in 3.253 seconds
  192. Echo1 nuron: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: connection-timeout
  193. nuron @ping trashserver.net
  194. UsL Its down. First i thought it was my usual problem with gajim and wicd again.
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  196. Echo1 nuron: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: connection-timeout
  197. nuron > Its down. First i thought it was my usual problem with gajim and wicd again. Yes, trashserver.net is down. There is a problem with mam_muc module. I think Thomas try to fix it..
  198. nuron Have the same problem with prosody after I updated the modules
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  200. nuron @ping trashserver.net
  201. Echo1 nuron: Pong from trashserver.net in 4.023 seconds
  202. nuron Its up again
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  205. MattJ What problem, do you know?
  206. nuron The mam_muc module doesn't work...
  207. Holger Maybe it's this: <https://hg.prosody.im/prosody-modules/rev/39994c6bb314>?
  208. nuron I will send it Thomas..
  209. nuron Thanks
  210. Martin He just States there is 'a problem' https://social.tchncs.de/@trashserver
  211. Martin And earlier ranted about prosody and MySQL 😃
  212. nuron Of course, because I have texted him that mam muc doesn't work ;)
  213. Holger There are no problems, there are opportunities.
  214. Martin Challenges 😃
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  216. nuron We'll see
  217. Holger Martin: Isn't challenges the thing we had 10 years ago, while we've now realized this still sounds way too negative? I might be mixing things up.
  218. Martin Holger: maybe I'm not up to date with these euphemisms
  219. Holger The trashserver admin sees an opportunity to test https://github.com/ortuman/jackal it seems :-)
  220. Martin Lets call everything celebration and try to solve all problems with party and dope 😃
  221. Holger \o/
  222. Martin > The trashserver admin sees an opportunity to test https://github.com/ortuman/jackal it seems :-) It seems he is eveb thinking about getting involved in development
  223. Martin .even
  224. nuron Yes, he is
  225. Maranda MySQL
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  227. Maranda points with enphasis
  228. Holger It's-bad-soo-bad-Postgres-soooo-much-bettta!
  229. Maranda Maybe but since everything supports it while most doesn't support the other
  230. SamWhited I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not, but it really is… if you have a datbase that you've started with that you're forced to use, fair enough. If you're starting fresh and use MySQL you're just asking to lose data.
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  232. Maranda I'll just keep swearing in dead languages at it whenever InnoDB tables just decide to corrupt 'emselves
  233. Holger Maranda: Oh I thought this was the rant you were about to make :-) I'm not into SQL engines and don't care.
  234. SamWhited I say that, InnoDB is actually a fairly nice storage backend in a lot of ways. But MySQL's nonsense still makes it not worth using.
  235. SamWhited Mostly innodb won't corruptp itself to my knowledge, but it will decide that you obviously don't know what you're doing with your query and it should make a lot of assumptions and corrupt your data
  236. Maranda SamWhited, *my* query? 😎
  237. SamWhited Everybody's query!
  238. Holger SamWhited: You lost me, InnoDB won't corrupt itself but what?
  239. Maranda The queries aren't *mine* I'd need to ask the web junkies who wrote 'em. But not that it matters much
  240. Maranda PostGRE didn't corrupt with the equivalent queries
  241. Holger SamWhited: You can get it to corrupt data with queries that are bogus in some way? Or with valid queries InnoDB incorrectly considers bogus?
  242. SamWhited Holger: Sorry, I'm just ranting. As an example, mysql in its default mode will happily decide that because you accidentally queried for where intcolumn = '1_whatever' that you *obviously* meant hat to be "where intcolumn = 1" and it will select that and insert data even though your query was a mistake and you were trying to query against a string column or something
  243. SamWhited Holger: with invalid queries that shouldn't run
  244. SamWhited It also ignores constraints in a lot of cases; it's trivial to make non-nullable columns contain an ull.
  245. Holger Ah, I see.
  246. SamWhited It's worth noting that you can turn all this off and that mysql people will swear that this makes it fine… but naturally you have to know that and go to more effort to have any sort of data consistency.
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  248. Maranda SamWhited apparently though saving caches in MySQL "is not a thing" while it causes no issues in pgsql
  249. SamWhited Also, the utf-8 type isn't actually wide enough to encode utf-8… so they have another utf-8-for-real-this-time type that does it right… the whole thing really is a joke.
  250. SamWhited Maranda: saving caches? I'm not sure what you meant by that, sounds bad though.
  251. Holger We do that :-)
  252. SamWhited I have wasted a lot of time trying to make things work on mysql… so I'm a bit bitter now :)
  253. Holger With InnoDB.
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  255. Holger (Saving/restoring it's main buffer/cache thing on restart, I mean.)
  256. SamWhited ah, gotcha
  257. Maranda I had Orchard storing page caches in MySQL and it was corruption all over until I figured it was that
  258. Maranda The same wouldn't do a thing in PG
  259. SamWhited Interesting; I don't know how innodb stores pages, I'd be curious to know why that lead to corruption.
  260. Holger It seems to work just fine for as. As usual with anecdotal evidence ...
  261. Holger For us even.
  262. Holger (Or maybe we're talking about different features.)
  263. Maranda I don't care about the database (engine), as long as it's supported by the stuff I need to use and doesn't cause hassles.
  264. Holger This is not how flame wars work.
  265. Maranda :P
  266. MattJ One of the ways of making something not cause hassle is making sure you use the right thing for the right job
  267. Maranda On the xmpp server I proudly use flat files for a reason.
  268. SamWhited MySQL in general will cause hassle though… I don't think there's a job it's uniquely suited for. If you want speed, don't use a relational database. If you want data consistency, use a different relational database.
  269. Maranda MattJ, are you trying to citate Scotty on me :P?
  270. SamWhited The only reason to use mysql is because you already have a database that uses it and you're stuck with it.
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  273. Maranda SamWhited, or that the stuff you need to use or that people need you to use requires it?
  274. SamWhited Yah, fair
  275. SamWhited Although I'd also consider using other tools at that point; requiring mysql gives me no confidence in your <insert project> or that it won't lose my data.
  276. SamWhited has left
  277. SamWhited But that's obviously not always an option.
  278. Holger SamWhited: We've been using hints to fix MySQL's optimizer choosing wrong indices for weird corner cases. I hear that's frowned upon in the Postgres universe, Postgres should just always get it right and if it doesn't, post a bug report. Sounds really good to me, except if there's a realistic chance I could run into the situation where I have to post a bug report and wait for a fix.
  279. Maranda SamWhited, I just give you an example, all mainstream web analytics apps (mostly php) don't or badly support pgsql
  280. Holger Of course there may really be enough magic in Postgres that this won't happen in practice, I have no idea.
  281. Holger Apart from that I've seen long lists of reasons to prefer Postgres and not much vice-versa, yes.
  282. SamWhited Holger: I have never had it get it wrong, but if it does I don't think it's impossible to direct it to use a different index, they just ask that you also file a bug report.
  283. Maranda Holger, well posting a bug report about MySQL doesn't work much better either...
  284. SamWhited That being said, the data for most of the projects I've worked on wasn't that complex, so it may have trouble in places. I'm sure it's not right 100% of the time.
  285. Holger SamWhited: As I understood it there's no explicit directive to do that (on purpose). But there may be tricks to do it of course.
  286. Maranda I'm not sure from how much time in practice MySQL workbench migration from Postgres is just plainly broken.
  287. Holger Maranda: My point was that MySQL offers you a workaround for the time until the bug is fixed.
  288. SamWhited Holger: yah, don't listen to me, I thought there was but I don't see it now. Might have been cockroach DB feature that I'm mixing up or something.
  289. Maranda Good thing I'm not a DB expert at all
  290. Maranda :P
  291. SamWhited Does innodb support multicolumn indexes? I've purged my mysql knowledge after leaving a previous job…
  292. Holger Oh yes it does.
  293. Holger SQLite does :-)
  294. Maranda https://upload.lightwitch.org:5280/share/335b8d23-0aca-4a81-966d-0683a9055137/scottySays.jpg
  295. Maranda MattJ, ^
  296. Holger SamWhited: But I have no real doubt that Postgres is probably the superior product. MySQL's success story seems to boil down to "everyone uses it" and that's basically how I got to know it better than Postgres as well.
  297. Maranda Also now it's Oracle's says it all.
  298. SamWhited Holger: yah, it was the same with me the first time I used a database, "well this seems to be what everyone is using, must be the best"
  299. SamWhited It's also "fast", which is why a lot of people like it. But it's speed comes from taking shortcuts that lead to data inconsistency like not checking constraints so you probably want something else if that's why you're using it…
  300. SamWhited Maranda: there's always MariaDB in that case (the non-oracle fork which is actually what I assume people are using for the most part when they say 'mysql' these days)
  301. Maranda and if it's speed me thinks Pgsql10 is faster anyways now
  302. SamWhited When I say we used "MySQL" at a previous job, we were actually on MariaDB I think. I shouldn't conflate the two, but I forget sometimes.
  303. SamWhited err, no, that's not true either, we had both. Gosh I'm forgetting all this.
  304. Maranda SamWhited, except afair MariaDB has no Windows release so I'm stuck with Oracle's :P
  305. Maranda \\o
  306. Maranda o//
  307. Holger SamWhited: True in my case, I meant MariaDB when I said MySQL.
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  309. nuron mam_muc error mod_mam_muc should be loaded only on a MUC component, not normal hosts i found this in the prosody logs...
  310. nuron what does it mean?
  311. Maranda what it says.
  312. Maranda that you're trying to load it somewhere which is not a MUC component.
  313. nuron but how can i fix that? i have no idea
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  315. Maranda put it in modules_enabled = {} pertaining to (aka below) whatever *Component "..." "muc"* section?
  316. Maranda and not somewhere else or globally or somesuch
  317. nuron I'm sorry my English is not very well. I will try to understand..
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  320. nuron I have mam_muc in the modules_enabled list and in the virtual host part... Which one should I delete?
  321. SamWhited nuron: both
  322. nuron Okay
  323. SamWhited Component "conference.example.org" "muc" modules_enabled = { "mam_muc", }
  324. nuron An then?
  325. SamWhited Put it under the "Component" line
  326. nuron Yes, there is it. Between only name, restrict_room_creation and max_history_messages
  327. nuron Component "conference.shreddox.eu" "muc" name = "Shreddox Muc's" restrict_room_creation = false max_history_messages = 100 modules_enabled = { "mam_muc" }
  328. nuron thats the part
  329. SamWhited That one is correct, you can remove the other one.
  330. nuron okay, i've done so. restart prosody now?
  331. SamWhited Yup, that should fix it :)
  332. nuron i'll try
  333. nuron just a second
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  336. Maranda no don't restart
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  339. nuron so, prosody is up again
  340. nuron lets have a look
  341. Maranda (that's pointless I think)
  342. Maranda .
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  344. Maranda is too slow, and needs a shower.
  345. Maranda brb
  346. nuron why no restart?
  347. nuron there is no mam yet
  348. nuron no mucmam
  349. nuron 1:1 mam should work
  350. SamWhited nuron: what version of Prosody is this?
  351. nuron 0.10
  352. SamWhited Ah, it's not fully compatible with 0.10. It should work partially, but some clients won't be able to detect it I think
  353. nuron i have updated the modules today a few hours ago and since this update mam_muc dont work..
  354. SamWhited See the note under "Compatibility" here: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_mam_muc.html
  355. nuron but i have used it three month ago and everything works fine
  356. nuron with prosody 0.10 as well
  357. SamWhited I'm not sure when this happened; someone in the prosody room might be able to give you more information
  358. nuron i will check the link first
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  412. nuron https://haste.tchncs.de/yujumudolo.pas That was also in the logs
  413. nuron and very often this log: conference.shreddox.eu:mam_muc debug <history xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/muc' since='2018-04-16T18:33:05.221Z'/>
  414. nuron dont know what to do :/
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  429. Maranda Apr 16 20:24:26 s2sin76a5ad0 debug Incoming s2s connection Apr 16 20:24:26 s2sin76a5ad0 debug Incoming s2s received <stream:stream version='1.0' xmlns='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams'> Apr 16 20:24:26 mod_s2s debug sending: <?xml version='1.0'?> Apr 16 20:24:26 mod_s2s debug sending: <stream:stream xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' version='1.0' id='28cb310f-b8fb-4398-8527-8c8eabeb4913' xmlns:db='jabber:server:dialback' xmlns='jabber:server'> Apr 16 20:24:26 s2sin76a5ad0 warn No 'to' on stream header from unknown host means we can't offer any features Apr 16 20:24:26 mod_s2s debug Sending stream features: <stream:features/> Apr 16 20:24:26 mod_s2s debug sending: <stream:features> Apr 16 20:24:26 s2sin76a5ad0 debug Received[s2sin_unauthed]: <verify id='167c0bd9' xmlns='jabber:server:dialback' to='lightwitch.org' from='jit.si'>ca4847b1d2223b51899d27cfbce08a44153544b49bfc4ce45ddacfe8b58b8d83</verify>
  430. Maranda wowow
  431. Maranda that's ancient
  432. Maranda @version jit.si
  433. Echo1 Maranda: jit.si is running Openfire version 3.10.3 on Linux 4.4.0-22-generic (amd64) - Java 1.8.0_91
  434. SamWhited nuron: I'd ask in the prosody room, they're more likely to be able to help you.
  435. SamWhited xmpp:prosody@conference.prosody.im?join
  436. nuron im allready there ;)
  437. Maranda Hmm I almost thought it was jabberd, but I vaguely remember OF doing it to verify dialback streams (or some such)
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