XMPP Service Operators - 2019-01-13

  1. kmq has joined
  2. kmq has joined
  3. kmq has joined
  4. fp-tester has left
  5. fp-tester has joined
  6. fp-tester has left
  7. 404.city has joined
  8. kmq has joined
  9. xsteadfastx has joined
  10. xsteadfastx has joined
  11. xsteadfastx has joined
  12. xsteadfastx has joined
  13. kmq has joined
  14. Odin has left
  15. Odin has joined
  16. kmq has left
  17. kmq has left
  18. edhelas has left
  19. edhelas has joined
  20. xsteadfastx has joined
  21. xsteadfastx has joined
  22. kmq has joined
  23. Odin has left
  24. Odin has joined
  25. kmq has left
  26. kmq has left
  27. kmq has joined
  28. kmq has left
  29. xsteadfastx has joined
  30. xsteadfastx has joined
  31. kmq has left
  32. Odin has left
  33. Odin has joined
  34. Odin has left
  35. Odin has joined
  36. Odin has left
  37. Odin has joined
  38. lorddavidiii has left
  39. lorddavidiii has joined
  40. lorddavidiii has left
  41. lorddavidiii has joined
  42. Odin has left
  43. Maranda has joined
  44. holger has joined
  45. Odin has joined
  46. kmq has left
  47. andrey.utkin has left
  48. kmq has joined
  49. kmq has left
  50. sol has joined
  51. sol has joined
  52. mrDoctorWho has joined
  53. ThibG has left
  54. ThibG has joined
  55. adbalde20 has joined
  56. kmq has joined
  57. sol has joined
  58. kmq has joined
  59. kmq has left
  60. kmq has left
  61. kmq has left
  62. kmq has joined
  63. oli has left
  64. oli has joined
  65. kmq has joined
  66. kmq has joined
  67. kmq has joined
  68. kmq has joined
  69. jjrh has left
  70. jjrh has left
  71. kmq has left
  72. kmq has left
  73. kmq has joined
  74. kmq has joined
  75. kmq has joined
  76. kmq has joined
  77. oli has left
  78. oli has joined
  79. oli has left
  80. oli has joined
  81. kmq has joined
  82. kmq has joined
  83. oli has left
  84. oli has joined
  85. oli has left
  86. kmq has joined
  87. oli has joined
  88. kmq has left
  89. kmq has left
  90. kmq has left
  91. (-: has joined
  92. xsteadfastx has left
  93. xsteadfastx has joined
  94. qwertz has joined
  95. pod has joined
  96. mrDoctorWho has joined
  97. ibikk has joined
  98. xsteadfastx has joined
  99. xsteadfastx has joined
  100. xsteadfastx has left
  101. xsteadfastx has joined
  102. Neustradamus has left
  103. adbalde20 has left
  104. xsteadfastx has left
  105. xsteadfastx has joined
  106. sol has left
  107. sol has joined
  108. xsteadfastx has joined
  109. xsteadfastx has joined
  110. xsteadfastx has left
  111. xsteadfastx has joined
  112. 404.city has left
  113. kmq has joined
  114. ThibG has joined
  115. kmq has left
  116. kmq has left
  117. qwertz has left
  118. kmq has left
  119. kmq has left
  120. 404.city has joined
  121. xsteadfastx has left
  122. xsteadfastx has joined
  123. ThibG has joined
  124. kmq has joined
  125. sol has joined
  126. xsteadfastx has joined
  127. xsteadfastx has joined
  128. xsteadfastx has left
  129. xsteadfastx has joined
  130. Licaon_Kter has left
  131. oli has joined
  132. Licaon_Kter has joined
  133. xsteadfastx has joined
  134. xsteadfastx has joined
  135. xsteadfastx has left
  136. xsteadfastx has joined
  137. info-screen has left
  138. kmq has joined
  139. xsteadfastx has joined
  140. xsteadfastx has joined
  141. lash has joined
  142. lash I tried setting up an openfire server using cacert.org certificate. I have trouble connecting to other servers, and suspect maybe the certificate is the issue, that it's not trusted. Do server implementations bundle their own trusted certificates, or do they use system's, or both?
  143. xsteadfastx has joined
  144. xsteadfastx has joined
  145. sol has joined
  146. lash And if own or both, does anyone know if cacert.org is included?
  147. kmq has joined
  148. mrDoctorWho has joined
  149. mike has joined
  150. kmq has left
  151. lorddavidiii has left
  152. mightyBroccoli Cacert is not in any major trust store AFAIK. Some/ most / juet mine ( I don't have any statistics) do not allow s2s without a valid cert. Why not use letsencrypt.org ?
  153. xsteadfastx has joined
  154. lash mightyBroccoli: Yes, I am aware. So that's why I was curious whether XMPP servers also bundles some, and if cacert.org is part of them. I really like the philosophy of cacert, and I would like to support them.
  155. xsteadfastx has left
  156. xsteadfastx has joined
  157. kmq has joined
  158. mightyBroccoli I would bet some have cacert in der store, thus it's possible, but for a federated service highly unpractical, if the cert is not trusted automatically or at least widely.
  159. sol has joined
  160. 404.city has left
  161. mightyBroccoli has left
  162. mightyBroccoli has joined
  163. Maranda has left
  164. Maranda has joined
  165. xsteadfastx has joined
  166. kmq has left
  167. xsteadfastx has left
  168. holger has left
  169. xsteadfastx has joined
  170. xsteadfastx has left
  171. kmq has joined
  172. holger has joined
  173. xsteadfastx has joined
  174. kmq has left
  175. kmq has joined
  176. xsteadfastx has joined
  177. xsteadfastx has joined
  178. sol has joined
  179. kmq has joined
  180. kmq has joined
  181. lash mightyBroccoli: The question was really whether the server software bundles provides them. But I assume from your reply that the answer is no.
  182. ThibG has joined
  183. mrDoctorWho has joined
  184. Maranda has left
  185. Maranda has left
  186. fp-tester has joined
  187. ThibG has joined
  188. Link Mauve lash, no distribution bundles certificates as part of specific applications that I know of.
  189. mimi89999 has joined
  190. andrey.utkin has joined
  191. xsteadfastx has left
  192. xsteadfastx has joined
  193. xsteadfastx has left
  194. andrey.utkin has joined
  195. andrey.utkin has joined
  196. andrey.utkin has joined
  197. xsteadfastx has joined
  198. xsteadfastx has joined
  199. xsteadfastx has left
  200. xsteadfastx has joined
  201. Maranda hmmm interesting increase in bidi s2s connections :O
  202. Holger has left
  203. Maranda nm not so interesting after all
  204. xsteadfastx has joined
  205. Maranda has disco'ed some servers running Metronome 🤣
  206. Martin has joined
  207. pep. Maranda, yeah, prosody has declared their mod_bidi stable not so long ago so people decided to run it, even though it's been the same code for howmanyyears
  208. xsteadfastx has joined
  209. xsteadfastx has joined
  210. Maranda pep., but most of those 22 connections weren't prosody :P
  211. pep. heh
  212. Maranda I can recognize Metronome in webmin by just looking at the s2s flags :P
  213. xsteadfastx has joined
  214. kmq has left
  215. kmq has left
  216. info-screen has joined
  217. kmq has left
  218. kmq has left
  219. adbalde20 has joined
  220. adbalde20 has left
  221. mimi89999 has joined
  222. oli has joined
  223. xsteadfastx has joined
  224. xsteadfastx has joined
  225. kmq has left
  226. vanitasvitae has left
  227. vanitasvitae has joined
  228. vanitasvitae has left
  229. vanitasvitae has joined
  230. mightyBroccoli has left
  231. xsteadfastx has left
  232. info-screen has joined
  233. xsteadfastx has joined
  234. xsteadfastx has left
  235. xsteadfastx has joined
  236. xsteadfastx has left
  237. xsteadfastx has joined
  238. xsteadfastx has left
  239. xsteadfastx has joined
  240. xsteadfastx has joined
  241. mrDoctorWho has joined
  242. oli i feel xmpp federation should not enforce "valid" certs.
  243. mimi89999 has joined
  244. pep. Why not
  245. pep. https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/pull/1711/commits/f30e6851127874739659ffe2b2c211c4db6e50f0 Matrix tried that, promoting the use of self-signed certs, with "notary" servers to allow you to verify a fingerprint from different perspectives, but apparently they're failing and coming back to "You should trust CAs"
  246. oli because that everyone has to rely on letsrncrypt and this cert renewal automation shit is just a big stupid workaround.
  247. xsteadfastx has joined
  248. pep. How is that related to "federated servers should not enforce valid certs"?
  249. xsteadfastx has joined
  250. xsteadfastx has left
  251. xsteadfastx has joined
  252. oli because the suggestion was to use letsencrypt.
  253. xsteadfastx has joined
  254. mrDoctorWho has joined
  255. lash has joined
  256. ThibG has joined
  257. ThibG has joined
  258. xsteadfastx has left
  259. xsteadfastx has joined
  260. xsteadfastx has left
  261. xsteadfastx has joined
  262. xsteadfastx has left
  263. xsteadfastx has joined
  264. pep. Maybe we should advertize DANE a bit more :)
  265. pep. I agree with not trusting CAs, but alternative solutions are often a lot more involved
  266. xsteadfastx has left
  267. xsteadfastx has joined
  268. oli whats wrong with dialback?
  269. oli how is that less trustworthy than letsencrypt?
  270. Link Mauve oli, hi, here is a SRV saying that muc.xmpp.org is now served by evil.com, trust me I’m a DNS server somewhere.
  271. valo has joined
  272. xsteadfastx has joined
  273. xsteadfastx has joined
  274. valo has joined
  275. pep. s/somewhere/at your ISP/
  276. pep. Or others.
  277. xsteadfastx has joined
  278. xsteadfastx has joined
  279. oli somewhere at your isp the letsencrypt verification is redirected
  280. pep. You contact them over https
  281. lash has joined
  282. pep. So yeah if the CA trust is compromised, we're all doomed, but that will not go unnoticed
  283. xsteadfastx has joined
  284. oli i don't see much of a problem with s2s if there is encrypted dns and dnssec and maybe dane
  285. xsteadfastx has left
  286. xsteadfastx has joined
  287. oli if i then receive a compromised ns record, letsencrypt has the same problem
  288. oli of course it's easier to just trust the letsencrypt cert
  289. oli and don't care about the other stuff
  290. xsteadfastx has joined
  291. pep. "letsencrypt has the same problem" how?
  292. Martin has left
  293. mrDoctorWho has joined
  294. xsteadfastx has left
  295. xsteadfastx has joined
  296. Link Mauve oli, I’d say it’s harder to poison LE’s DNS servers than a random user’s ones.
  297. oli server admin, not user. s2s
  298. oli and it's about locking servers out that use self signed certs
  299. ibikk has left
  300. mimi89999 has joined
  301. tyler has left
  302. tyler has joined
  303. vanitasvitae has left
  304. vanitasvitae has left
  305. mightyBroccoli oli: it's about setting a Standart. See it from the perspective you would like a doctor that actually is a doctor not one who says to be one.
  306. xsteadfastx has left
  307. xsteadfastx has joined
  308. oli good example of abuse of power and authority
  309. Licaon_Kter oli: the doctors part?
  310. oli yes
  311. xsteadfastx has joined
  312. xsteadfastx has left
  313. xsteadfastx has joined
  314. 404.city has joined
  315. xsteadfastx has left
  316. xsteadfastx has joined
  317. xsteadfastx has left
  318. xsteadfastx has joined
  319. xsteadfastx has left
  320. xsteadfastx has joined
  321. fp-tester has left
  322. xsteadfastx has left
  323. xsteadfastx has joined
  324. fp-tester has left
  325. oli has left
  326. oli has joined
  327. fp-tester has left
  328. SouL has left
  329. kmq has left
  330. kmq has left
  331. lash has left
  332. lash has joined
  333. ibikk has left
  334. mike has left
  335. 404.city has left
  336. oli has joined
  337. kmq has left
  338. xsteadfastx has joined
  339. xsteadfastx has joined
  340. xsteadfastx has left
  341. xsteadfastx has joined
  342. xsteadfastx has left
  343. xsteadfastx has joined
  344. xsteadfastx has left
  345. xsteadfastx has joined
  346. oli has joined
  347. mightyBroccoli Why is that abusive? Or to be more specific where do you feel violated by doctors?
  348. xsteadfastx has joined
  349. xsteadfastx has left
  350. xsteadfastx has joined
  351. xsteadfastx has left
  352. 404.city has joined
  353. ThibG has joined
  354. info-screen has joined
  355. xsteadfastx has joined
  356. andrey.utkin has joined
  357. Maranda uh... lol with this poisoning paranoy drama.
  358. ibikk has joined
  359. xsteadfastx has joined
  360. xsteadfastx has joined
  361. 404.city has left
  362. info-screen has left
  363. Maranda has left
  364. ibikk has left
  365. ibikk has joined
  366. ibikk has left
  367. ibikk has joined
  368. mimi89999 has joined
  369. mimi89999 has joined
  370. mimi89999 has joined
  371. oli mightyBroccoli: 50% bad science, financial exploitation, unnecessary treatment including torture.
  372. oli 50% saving leaves, providing proper care, ...
  373. oli lives not leaves
  374. mightyBroccoli I would call that filter bubble and misunderstanding of statistics. Projecting problems onto different other subjects works on the surface but does not match up when you dig deeper. Think for yourself don't be sheep.
  375. mimi89999 has joined
  376. oli cheap arguments...
  377. oli i just want to point certified doctors is not a good analogy for certified servers. or maybe it is, certificate does not imply guaranteed trustworthiness
  378. (-: has left
  379. integrationsfigur has joined
  380. ThibG has left
  381. ThibG has joined
  382. integrationsfigur has left
  383. mightyBroccoli has left
  384. Licaon_Kter oli: it doesn't, now how would these stats look without any certification?
  385. oli depends. in some areas much better...
  386. mightyBroccoli has joined
  387. mimi89999 has joined
  388. integrationsfigur has joined
  389. mimi89999 has joined
  390. xsteadfastx has left
  391. xsteadfastx has joined
  392. ThibG has joined
  393. xsteadfastx has left
  394. xsteadfastx has joined
  395. mimi89999 has left
  396. mimi89999 has joined
  397. mimi89999 has left
  398. mimi89999 has joined
  399. mimi89999 has left
  400. mimi89999 has left
  401. xsteadfastx has joined
  402. xsteadfastx has joined
  403. mimi89999 has joined
  404. xsteadfastx has left
  405. xsteadfastx has joined
  406. xsteadfastx has joined
  407. xsteadfastx has joined
  408. xsteadfastx has left
  409. xsteadfastx has joined
  410. xsteadfastx has left
  411. xsteadfastx has joined
  412. marc0s has joined
  413. xsteadfastx has joined
  414. xsteadfastx has joined
  415. marc0s has left
  416. info-screen has joined
  417. mightyBroccoli has left
  418. mightyBroccoli has joined
  419. xsteadfastx has joined
  420. xsteadfastx has joined
  421. kmq has left
  422. marc0s has joined
  423. marc0s has joined
  424. xsteadfastx has left
  425. xsteadfastx has joined
  426. ibikk has left
  427. xsteadfastx has joined
  428. xsteadfastx has joined
  429. carlos has joined
  430. carlos has joined
  431. marc0s has joined
  432. vanitasvitae has left
  433. vanitasvitae has joined
  434. ThibG has joined
  435. xsteadfastx has left
  436. xsteadfastx has joined
  437. Licaon_Kter has left
  438. Licaon_Kter has joined
  439. integrationsfigur has left
  440. xsteadfastx has left
  441. xsteadfastx has joined
  442. kmq has joined
  443. andrey.utkin has joined
  444. mimi89999 has joined
  445. kmq has joined
  446. mightyBroccoli has left
  447. Neustradamus has left
  448. Marzanna has left
  449. oli has left
  450. oli has joined
  451. oli has left
  452. oli has joined
  453. oli has left
  454. oli has joined
  455. Holger has left
  456. tyler has left
  457. oli has left
  458. oli has joined
  459. oli has left
  460. oli has joined
  461. ibikk has joined
  462. oli has left
  463. oli has joined
  464. marc0s has left
  465. xsteadfastx has joined
  466. info-screen has left
  467. edhelas has left
  468. marc0s has left
  469. edhelas has joined
  470. pod has left
  471. xsteadfastx has left
  472. xsteadfastx has joined
  473. xsteadfastx has left
  474. xsteadfastx has joined
  475. xsteadfastx has left
  476. xsteadfastx has joined
  477. edhelas has left
  478. vanitasvitae has left
  479. edhelas has joined
  480. andrey.utkin has joined
  481. ibikk has left
  482. andrey.utkin has left
  483. andrey.utkin has joined
  484. kmq has left
  485. ThibG has left
  486. andrey.utkin has joined
  487. kmq has joined
  488. sol has joined
  489. Licaon_Kter has left
  490. Licaon_Kter has joined
  491. lorddavidiii has left
  492. lorddavidiii has left
  493. kmq has left
  494. sol has joined
  495. Neustradamus has left
  496. pod has left
  497. pod has joined
  498. Neustradamus has joined
  499. xsteadfastx has left
  500. xsteadfastx has joined
  501. pod has left
  502. fp-tester has joined
  503. ThibG has left
  504. ThibG has joined
  505. sol has left
  506. sol has joined
  507. kmq has joined
  508. kmq has joined
  509. kmq has joined
  510. xsteadfastx has joined
  511. xsteadfastx has joined
  512. tyler has joined
  513. carlos has left
  514. Licaon_Kter has left
  515. xsteadfastx has joined
  516. xsteadfastx has joined
  517. kmq has left
  518. xsteadfastx has joined
  519. xsteadfastx has joined
  520. pep. has joined
  521. info-screen has joined