XMPP Service Operators - 2019-08-14

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  16. aj

    Wow I didn't know NLNet labs was sponsoring Conversations

  17. aj

    Holger: Ah, interesting. I use Swift actually, I didn't realize it was by M-Link

  18. aj

    I have a curious question, what was the main motivation behind BOSH/websockets support? Was it to help reduce battery life by reducing the need for a long-lived TCP connection? Or was it for evading corporate firewalls?

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  46. Holger

    aj: No, using HTTP doesn't help with battery life. Main motivation is that JavaScript clients cannot open raw TCP connections.

  47. aj


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  60. tom

    aj, does swift have jingle and omemo?

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  64. Holger

    tom: No.

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  66. Holger

    tom: Also no inline pics, and their MAM support isn't done yet. Other than that it's actually a nice client IMO (quite robust, and more usable for non-geeks than e.g. Gajim).

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  70. tom

    Is it planned for is the isode clients stringly text messaging?

  71. tom

    like just IRC-like functionality

  72. Holger

    I _think_ they're not big fans of OMEMO but other features are planned, but you'd have to ask them themselves: xmpp:swift@rooms.swift.im?join

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  98. aj

    tom: To add to what Holger said, swift also lacks file upload

  99. aj

    But it actually has working carbons support unlike adium

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  104. Holger

    > tom: To add to what Holger said, swift also lacks file upload Yup. It just has old-school peer-to-peer file transfer (which works with e.g. Conversations or Gajim on the other end).

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  113. tom

    why do people put each componet on a subdomain?

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  115. tom

    is that reccomended?

  116. tom

    also, if i'm using mod_http_upload_external on prosody, do I still need to use a seperate componet if upload.mydomain.com is on a different domain?

  117. jonas’

    tom, you cannot have multiple components on the same domain generally

  118. tom


  119. jonas’

    e.g. you cannot put a MUC service and a PubSub service on the same domain and expect it to not blow up

  120. jonas’

    you might get away with putting an upload service on a MUC service domain, depending on the server implementation, but that’s still messy.

  121. tom

    is it a protocol problem or a server implementation problem?

  122. jonas’

    I wouldn’t call it a problem at all

  123. jonas’

    those are just conflicting features to have on a single address

  124. jonas’

    e.g. when enumerating the items of that domain with both MUC and PubSub, would it return the pubsub nodes, the MUC rooms, or a mix of both?

  125. tom

    ok, so If I just replaced mod_http_upload with mod_http_upload_external and the external server is on a different ip and server, do I still need to configure the server to put the upload componet on upload.mydomain.com ?

  126. jonas’

    which server are we talking about?

  127. tom


  128. jonas’

    maybe ask in xmpp:prosody@conference.prosody.im?join ; I’m not 100% sure how http upload works in that regard

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  131. Holger

    tom: Note that the JID of the upload service is usually not user-visible at all (it's unrelated to the URL; though I'm not 100% sure whatever module you're using somehow wants to relate both after all). And as long as you only allow local users to upload stuff, you don't necessarily need a DNS/certificate entry for that either.

  132. tom

    only difference is that it doesn't show up is gajim's disco

  133. tom

    but gajim detects the new functionality just fine and enables the http upload button

  134. Holger

    Fine then. Still hacky :-)

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  137. tom

    how can I make in not hacky?

  138. tom

    are you saying I don't need a certificate and DNS pointing to the XMPP server?

  139. tom

    but I do for the actual upload cdn

  140. tom


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  142. tom

    and that they can be the same thing?

  143. Holger

    I could only repeat myself.

  144. tom


  145. Holger

    But whatever. If your setup works it's fine I guess.

  146. tom

    I want to make sure i'm doing this all proper

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  203. tom


  204. tom

    turns out some clients freak out and try to use someone elses upload server

  205. tom

    no idea why

  206. tom

    anyways, on an unrelated note Would I have any interoperability issues if I migrated from an RSA4096 certificate to a ECC384 one?

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  316. aj

    anybody here use siskin before? how is the MUC support?

  317. aj

    I can't seem to find their official support MUC, I guess that's a bad sign.

  318. Licaon_Kter

    aj: try xmpp:tigase@muc.tigase.org?join

  319. aj

    ah thanks

  320. Holger

    aj: xmpp:tigase xmpp:tigase@muc.tigase.org?join

  321. aj

    but I guess it's a moot point now, I just checked with the #fsf, and they said that GPL apps are not allowed on the Apple app store

  322. aj

    so I can't really fork the project for my needs =/

  323. aj

    but thanks I'll join it anyway Licaon_Kter and Holger

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  326. Holger

    They would have to add an exception for the app store themselves.

  327. Licaon_Kter

    aj: what? VLC? Monal?

  328. Holger

    It's distributed there.

  329. Licaon_Kter

    My bad Monal is BSD.

  330. Holger

    Licaon_Kter: Yes, known issue. There was big drama around the axolotl library until Moxie added an exception.

  331. aj

    Monal is MIT licensed. I'm not sure about VLC, but they may be treading on a gray area

  332. Licaon_Kter


  333. aj

    I mean I asked the #fsf, I presume they know what they're saying

  334. aj

    they wrote the license

  335. aj

    Although they could be wrong, should I go lecture them? =)

  336. Licaon_Kter

    ChatSecure is GPL3 afaics

  337. aj

    He's the sole author though, so he can do whatever he watns

  338. aj

    if we're forking downstream, we don't have that freedom

  339. aj

    as the author he can do whatever he wants; the code he gives us is then GPL licensed, which makes it illegal for us to fork without an exception

  340. Licaon_Kter

    aj: what? He says this is GPL and publishes ok...but you can't fork it an publish in the same store? Wtf?

  341. jonas’

    Licaon_Kter, not necessarily, no.

  342. aj

    Licaon_Kter: Think of it like this. As the author, he can publish it, then say no rights given to you whatsoever

  343. jonas’

    he owns the code, so he can do whatever he wants, in addition to what the GPL allows/requires

  344. aj

    that would be legal. But he chose to release it under the GPLv3. His own code, however, he can do whatever he wants with it

  345. jonas’

    so he can also go ahead and give Apple permissions beyond what the GPL allows

  346. jonas’

    but you can’t do that, because the code was given to you under the conditions of the GPL

  347. aj

    He's not restricted by the GPL license, since he's not a recipient of the code, but the author

  348. Licaon_Kter

    > I just checked with the #fsf, and they said that GPL apps are not allowed on the Apple app store Umm..what does this mean then?

  349. jonas’

    that’s one of the amazing properties of the GPL which actually allows commercialisation of free software. many people don’t realize that

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  352. Licaon_Kter

    So you need to ask for his permission, at fork time just to be sure, right?

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  354. aj

    I guess in this case, it's misleading for these guys to say it's open source then

  355. aj

    or free software, since we don't really have the ability to fork

  356. aj

    Licaon_Kter I think if you get his permission you can do whatever you want with it.

  357. jonas’

    Licaon_Kter, yes, and you need to ask the same permission from all the contributors.

  358. Licaon_Kter

    It's free there on Github, not on Apple store since they inject DRM, right?

  359. jonas’

    because it’s not obvious to them since they’re contributing under the terms of the GPL

  360. Licaon_Kter

    jonas’: that's their problem...when you contribute you should know....not CLAs to sign, F that, but you know...read LICENCE file

  361. jonas’

    Licaon_Kter, yes, but the LICENSE file says GPL

  362. jonas’

    when you publish on the app store, that’s not under the terms of the GPL

  363. jonas’

    so you need extra-permission from the contributors beyond what is in the LICENSE file, to distribute the code via Applecrap

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  365. aj

    ChatSecure has the same issue

  366. aj

    The dev says if you want 'to relicense this code to distribute it on the App Store', I need to contact him

  367. aj

    =/ ok I guess it's monal then

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  370. Licaon_Kter

    Secure their ok...first

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  416. tom

    jonas’, take a look the the dual licensing mess with the nextcloud apple "app"

  417. tom

    if you get it from the developers it's licensed GNU

  418. tom


  419. tom

    if you get it from the app store it's proprietary

  420. tom

    it's the same app

  421. tom

    apple is so full of crap

  422. tom

    no developer should put up with apple's developer treatment

  423. tom

    I remember when they gave Vulkan the finger and tried to get game developers to use their own proprietary graphics layer called Metal

  424. tom

    and that's why macs have to games

  425. tom


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  436. perflyst

    > Conversations has a grant at the moment for implementing A/V, and some money comes in from commercial requests what is A/V?

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  440. edhelas

    Audio Video

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