XSF logo XMPP Service Operators - 2019-10-25


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  130. seantodd @version chat.seantodd.co.uk
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  132. Echo1 seantodd: chat.seantodd.co.uk is running Prosody version trunk nightly build 1158 (2019-10-20, cb9755d7a36e) on Linux
  133. seantodd @contact chat.seantodd.co.uk
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  135. seantodd Hmm, does the bot have a command for pulling contact details? I'm just trying to make sure my server is user-friendly before pushing it to wider people.
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  137. jonas’ 07:42:52 jonas’> !contact chat.seantodd.co.uk 07:42:55 foorl> jonas’: contact for chat.seantodd.co.uk: abuse: <mailto:abuse@seantodd.co.uk>, <xmpp:seantodd@chat.seantodd.co.uk> admin: <mailto:admin@seantodd.co.uk>, <xmpp:seantodd@chat.seantodd.co.uk> support: <mailto:support@seantodd.co.uk>, <xmpp:seantodd@chat.seantodd.co.uk>
  138. jonas’ sgtm
  139. jonas’ make sure you can receive messages from strangers on seantodd@chat.seantodd.co.uk
  140. Link Mauve seantodd, also, any reason you use this chat. subdomain? It might be nicer to have both your email and your XMPP addresses match.
  141. seantodd I believe I can! Its set in my client.
  142. seantodd And Link, it's a legacy domain. I'm looking to migrate soon-ish.
  143. Link Mauve Ok.
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  151. seantodd Thanks for the assistance though peeps!
  152. jonas’ seantodd, migrating is a pain in the a**
  153. jonas’ you want to do this as early as possible
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  162. seantodd jonas’: agreed. I'm considering just burning and reinitialising my entire chat stack. It'll give me chance to re-do my DNS entries too.
  163. seantodd jonas’: there aren't enough users to require a migration right now.
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  220. Ge0rG Is there any info on which XMPP clients do/don't support ECDSA server certs?
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  334. 404.city Ge0rG, yaxIM
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  339. 404.city Ge0rG, yaxIM don't support. All other support
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  341. perflyst Ge0rG: when dane in yaxim? :) i saw recently that aTalk supports it
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  345. Licaon_Kter perflyst: if we go by what atalk supports yaxim/conversations/xabber should just close and go home Yet...
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  348. perflyst nah, aTalk has 99% features but bad UI
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  353. Licaon_Kter _I've got 99 features but a user ain't one_
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  361. Ge0rG 404.city: you mean yax.im the server, not yaxim the client, right?
  362. Ge0rG perflyst: DANE? Needs to come from Smack.
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  366. 404.city Ge0rG, I mean the client YaxIM, not the server yax.im
  367. Ge0rG 404.city: the client is yaxim, all lowercase ;)
  368. Ge0rG 404.city: so you tell me yaxim won't connect to a server with an ECDSA cert? Do you have an error message?
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  373. 404.city Ge0rG, I have no other information, except that the yaxim client does not connect to 404.city. The most likely reason is an ECC certificate
  374. Ge0rG 404.city: thanks for reporting it. I'll investigate.
  375. Ge0rG However, yaxim is not doing anything special, so it is probably heavily dependent on the Android version.
  376. 404.city Ge0rG, Is Google's quantum computer hacking RSA?
  377. Ge0rG 404.city: NSA has hacked DSA
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  380. Ge0rG 404.city: I've just logged in from yaxim to 404.city
  381. Ge0rG the only thing that doesn't work is MUC search, because it needs s2s to yax.im
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  387. 404.city Ge0rG, I love when mistakes disappear, without any action
  388. Ge0rG 404.city: I hate it. Because they don't really disappear, they will come back later and bite you
  389. Ge0rG 404.city: I'll probably reconsider the deactivation of ECDSA handshakes on yax.im, which will then restore direct connectivity to 404.city
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  391. Licaon_Kter Wasn't ECDSA using some messed up primes or smth?
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  393. 404.city Licaon_Kter, Yes, they used to. RSA also uses. Lets Encrypt also followed NSA orders.
  394. Licaon_Kter U trolling now or just fud as usual?
  395. 404.city If we talk about protecting the CA from the NSA, then it is complete crap, but this complete crap works well against third countries.
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  397. 404.city Licaon_Kter, No, this is not trolling. There are facts exist.
  398. 404.city Example: https://xmpp.net/result.php?domain=yax.im&type=server ECDHE-RSA . What a mess, this is an ECC certificate))
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  400. 404.city I did not find evidence with Lets Encrypt, but very often there are rumors that Lets issued fake certificates for hacking Arabs.
  401. Ge0rG Licaon_Kter: ECDSA is technically flawed, because it's neigh impossible to implement correctly
  402. Ge0rG https://minerva.crocs.fi.muni.cz/ is the last one in a series of practical attacks against ECDSA
  403. Ge0rG the most embarassing one, however, is this: https://medium.com/asecuritysite-when-bob-met-alice/not-playing-randomly-the-sony-ps3-and-bitcoin-crypto-hacks-c1fe92bea9bc
  404. 404.city Ge0rG, In practice, you can implement an attack on any certificate if you are CA
  405. Ge0rG 404.city: that's wrong. You can implement an attack on any *domain* if you are a CA
  406. Ge0rG 404.city: however, with Certificate Transparency and HSTS it's getting increasingly harder.
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  412. 404.city CA centers are completely subordinate to the governments of the countries where their location. RSA and ECC certificates are equally unreliable against CA attacks. Recently, there has been a massive transition to ECC certificates, because they are more resistant to cracking by quantum computers. RSA has a maximum bit rate of 4096 bit. 512 bit ECC equivalent to 16,000 bit RSA
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  414. perflyst 404.city: so everyone should self sign again?
  415. perflyst if you dont like CAs as you think they are gov spy companies, what about your manifesto to distrust everyone else https://github.com/E-404/Manifestos/blob/master/1.md ?
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  417. Ge0rG 404.city: what you have said has nothing to do what I asked about.
  418. 404.city >perflyst‎: 404.city: so everyone should self sign again? To solve these problems, there is e2e encryption
  419. Ge0rG I'm still interested in knowing which clients I'll cut off by switching from an RSA cert to ECDSA
  420. Ge0rG apparently, Android 4.1 is required for ECDSA support
  421. Ge0rG But I'm sure there are others that will get cut off
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  423. 404.city >perflyst‎: if you dont like CAs as you think they are gov spy companies, what about your manifesto to distrust everyone else Self-signed certificates are the worst option. Self-signed certificates, this is a complete lack of encryption. There is not always a choice between the best and the worst. Sometimes there is a choice between bad and very bad. CAs protect against hacking from third countries where CA is not located. Self-Signing Won't Protect From Public Wi-Fi
  424. Ge0rG Sigh.
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  427. 404.city Ge0rG‎: Most client and servers support ECC. The transition is invisible to most users
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  429. 404.city Ge0rG, Your server has many users with a yaxim client, so you should pay attention only to this client
  430. Link Mauve 404.city, I remember when some Ejabberd admins switched to ECC certificates, it broke s2s with my servers.
  431. Link Mauve This has probably been fixed since then, but not everyone updates as quickly.
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  434. Ge0rG Link Mauve: do you have s2s to 404.city?
  435. Link Mauve Yes.
  436. Link Mauve I’m talking about multiple years ago.
  437. Ge0rG 404.city [19:08]: > Ge0rG, Your server has many users with a yaxim client, so you should pay attention only to this client Yes, it's a great idea to ignore all users not running a certain unpopular implementation.
  438. 404.city Link Mauve, Some administrators manually list ciphers and forget to mention RSA when using ECC and vice versa. I encountered the same problem when using RSA. However, I was persuaded to switch to ECC. The reason is that supposedly CA will soon switch to ECC, which makes the long-term use of RSA meaningless.
  439. Link Mauve Ge0rG, but there are still people starting to run Prosody 0.9.7 today, with an equally outdated software stack.
  440. Ge0rG Link Mauve: ITYM Debian
  441. Link Mauve You read my mind!
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  445. 404.city Ge0rG, Possible problems may occur with users with Windows XP
  446. Ge0rG 404.city: do you have a list of clients that do / don't support ECDSA? Did you see a change in numbers when you switched?
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  448. 404.city Ge0rG, I did not notice any changes in the number of connections, but it is worth noting that 404.city b did not allow users with Windows XP to connect before.
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  450. Ge0rG Does XP support TLS 1+?
  451. 404.city Ge0rG, Only user with yaxim and UWPX reported connection problems. Currently there are user connections with new version UXPX.
  452. Ge0rG 404.city: do you still have contact to the yaxim user? I'd appreciate a bug report.
  453. 404.city Ge0rG, I don’t know, but a lot of people (10%) fell off after receiving a 100% RSA certificate at xmpp.net They all reported that they have Windows XP
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  455. 404.city Ge0rG, I don’t remember who this man was. It was a long time ago.I will forward the yaxim errors to you.
  456. Ge0rG https://blog.intothesymmetry.com/2019/08/side-channel-timing-attacks-against.html it'll never stop
  457. Ge0rG 404.city: thanks!
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