XMPP Service Operators - 2020-08-17


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  65. tom

    Apparently Zoom is based on XMPP. yet another evil tech corp taking free software & open interoperable standards, ripping out the interoperability, and adding in spyware https://upload.nuegia.net/e33e0872-eda4-49c3-9dd2-715e668c98a1/screenshot.png

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  67. tom

    » Elastic Search, Elastic cache, DynamoDB, SQS and S3 I can't think of why these tools would be required to running an XMPP server

  68. tom

    My guess is that they are storing absolutely EVERYTHING to an amazon S3 bucket

  69. tom

    Even videocalls

  70. tom

    Running ""analytics"" on them

  71. tom

    Did you know that Egypt was found to record ALL IP traffic egressing the country to disk?

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  74. tom

    » Running ""analytics"" on them to """improve our services"""

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  81. thndrbvr

    Zoom has also said they want to be able to share everything with the US gov't. They kept flip flopping with how any sort of encryption was being done.

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  84. tom

    Sooner or later that giant bucket of userdata is going to leak

  85. tom

    Especially with their security track record

  86. tom

    It will probably be the next Cambridge analytica

  87. tom

    Possibly worse

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  89. tom

    I'm tempted to download the binary on a separate machine, do a little blackboxing myself. Maybe throw it into Ghirda

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  333. stvn

    Prosody or ejabberd ?

  334. Licaon_Kter

    stvn: yes...

  335. stvn

    Haha, so both are good ?

  336. Licaon_Kter

    stvn: yes, depends on stuff, what's your usecase?

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  339. stvn

    Personal server, vps hosted, id also open registration for other people to use

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  341. stvn

    thndrbvr: now on zoom you have to pay for e2e

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  345. MattJ

    stvn: running a public server involves some amount of work - dealing with spammers, and so on

  346. MattJ

    I'd recommend against it generally, unless you're really prepared for that

  347. a

    or not dealing with spammers at all

  348. a

    I was told about day Tigase can automatically detect and block spam accounts

  349. a

    I was told another day Tigase can automatically detect and block spam accounts

  350. a

    sadly I don't use Tigase

  351. MattJ

    Not sure what Tigase does exactly, but Prosody has similar capabilities

  352. a

    but I'm pretty sure a similar feature will be available in ejaaberd eventually

  353. a

    but I'm pretty sure a similar feature will be available in ejabberd eventually

  354. Ge0rG

    "automatically detect and block spammers" - ha, I wish there'd be such a thing

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  356. Ge0rG

    the best you can get is automatically block people who registered throuh potential proxy servers

  357. a

    so... go for it. go for the open server. the more the merrier

  358. MattJ

    https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/05/12/new-anti-spam-measures/ - example write-up from Ge0rG for Prosody

  359. Licaon_Kter

    stvn: open for other people does not mean public necessary, eg. You can create the account and share the credentials.

  360. MattJ

    Licaon_Kter: noooooooooooo

  361. MattJ

    Why do XMPP folk think that handing around passwords is acceptable in 2020?

  362. Ge0rG

    MattJ: because there is no other way with an UX that is understandable by users

  363. MattJ

    Ge0rG: that's demonstrably not true?

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  365. Ge0rG

    MattJ: ...in XMPP

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  367. MattJ

    Easy invites work great

  368. Ge0rG

    MattJ: I tried it once with a family member, and it wasn't perfect.

  369. MattJ

    Oh?

  370. MattJ

    I tried it with 8 family members and about 20 people at FOSDEM

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  372. Ge0rG

    MattJ: maybe it's better if we push the JID and token through Google Play.

  373. MattJ

    That's what Snikket does, works great

  374. stvn

    Dont think id had much public traffic tbh

  375. stvn

    But id defently allow public acces, i will look around spam protection then

  376. MattJ

    stvn: spam bots scan for servers that allow registration and can register thousands of accounts each day

  377. stvn

    Is there some xmpp monitor ?

  378. MattJ

    Also see https://prosody.im/doc/public_servers

  379. Ge0rG

    MattJ: it still lacks a big bold 30pt statement about the rule #1 of running public xmpp servers

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  381. Licaon_Kter

    > I tried it with 8 family members and about 20 people at FOSDEM I'm not doing this ^^^ so it scales :))

  382. Licaon_Kter

    Also clients can change passwords...c'mon

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  385. Licaon_Kter

    Ge0rG: what's that? _"DON'T"_?

  386. pep.

    Licaon_Kter, how many of these users are going to it (change passwords)

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  389. Licaon_Kter

    Let's not move the goalpost :))

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  394. pep.

    "Why do XMPP folk think that handing around passwords is acceptable in 2020?" < I'm not moving this one. I agree with the statement behind the question and I was just continuing to highlight pitfalls of your approach :)

  395. Licaon_Kter

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  396. Licaon_Kter

    ejabberd lol

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  398. Martin

    > Why do XMPP folk think that handing around passwords is acceptable in 2020? I had to do those for my apples.

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  400. Licaon_Kter

    MattJ: > Why do XMPP folk think that handing around passwords is acceptable in 2020? Having one client on one platform and one server...is acceptable? What is this now, Matrix?

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  402. pep.

    I agree that's a fair point. Neither protocols nor implementations are close to fixing this. That doesn't make handling around passwords more acceptable though

  403. MattJ

    Martin: Siskin has supported invite links since FOSDEM

  404. Ge0rG

    Licaon_Kter: exactly!

  405. MattJ

    And the invite page allows you to enter a password manually to create the account

  406. MattJ

    So no, I don't think a single implementation is healthy, and I don't think it's what we have

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  408. pep.

    MattJ, prosody's original mod_invite you mean?

  409. Martin

    MattJ: Hmm, didn't know that.

  410. Licaon_Kter

    MattJ: I do want all this ofcourse, but I can't erlang so there's that....

  411. MattJ

    pep.: original and the Snikket one

  412. pep.

    ok

  413. MattJ

    So from the user perspective the only difference with the new stuff is that you can register right within the app instead of on the site

  414. MattJ

    So no awkwardly typing your password twice

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