XMPP Service Operators - 2020-08-17

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  65. tom Apparently Zoom is based on XMPP. yet another evil tech corp taking free software & open interoperable standards, ripping out the interoperability, and adding in spyware https://upload.nuegia.net/e33e0872-eda4-49c3-9dd2-715e668c98a1/screenshot.png
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  67. tom » Elastic Search, Elastic cache, DynamoDB, SQS and S3 I can't think of why these tools would be required to running an XMPP server
  68. tom My guess is that they are storing absolutely EVERYTHING to an amazon S3 bucket
  69. tom Even videocalls
  70. tom Running ""analytics"" on them
  71. tom Did you know that Egypt was found to record ALL IP traffic egressing the country to disk?
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  74. tom » Running ""analytics"" on them to """improve our services"""
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  81. thndrbvr Zoom has also said they want to be able to share everything with the US gov't. They kept flip flopping with how any sort of encryption was being done.
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  84. tom Sooner or later that giant bucket of userdata is going to leak
  85. tom Especially with their security track record
  86. tom It will probably be the next Cambridge analytica
  87. tom Possibly worse
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  89. tom I'm tempted to download the binary on a separate machine, do a little blackboxing myself. Maybe throw it into Ghirda
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  333. stvn Prosody or ejabberd ?
  334. Licaon_Kter stvn: yes...
  335. stvn Haha, so both are good ?
  336. Licaon_Kter stvn: yes, depends on stuff, what's your usecase?
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  339. stvn Personal server, vps hosted, id also open registration for other people to use
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  341. stvn thndrbvr: now on zoom you have to pay for e2e
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  345. MattJ stvn: running a public server involves some amount of work - dealing with spammers, and so on
  346. MattJ I'd recommend against it generally, unless you're really prepared for that
  347. a or not dealing with spammers at all
  348. a I was told about day Tigase can automatically detect and block spam accounts
  349. a I was told another day Tigase can automatically detect and block spam accounts
  350. a sadly I don't use Tigase
  351. MattJ Not sure what Tigase does exactly, but Prosody has similar capabilities
  352. a but I'm pretty sure a similar feature will be available in ejaaberd eventually
  353. a but I'm pretty sure a similar feature will be available in ejabberd eventually
  354. Ge0rG "automatically detect and block spammers" - ha, I wish there'd be such a thing
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  356. Ge0rG the best you can get is automatically block people who registered throuh potential proxy servers
  357. a so... go for it. go for the open server. the more the merrier
  358. MattJ https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/05/12/new-anti-spam-measures/ - example write-up from Ge0rG for Prosody
  359. Licaon_Kter stvn: open for other people does not mean public necessary, eg. You can create the account and share the credentials.
  360. MattJ Licaon_Kter: noooooooooooo
  361. MattJ Why do XMPP folk think that handing around passwords is acceptable in 2020?
  362. Ge0rG MattJ: because there is no other way with an UX that is understandable by users
  363. MattJ Ge0rG: that's demonstrably not true?
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  365. Ge0rG MattJ: ...in XMPP
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  367. MattJ Easy invites work great
  368. Ge0rG MattJ: I tried it once with a family member, and it wasn't perfect.
  369. MattJ Oh?
  370. MattJ I tried it with 8 family members and about 20 people at FOSDEM
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  372. Ge0rG MattJ: maybe it's better if we push the JID and token through Google Play.
  373. MattJ That's what Snikket does, works great
  374. stvn Dont think id had much public traffic tbh
  375. stvn But id defently allow public acces, i will look around spam protection then
  376. MattJ stvn: spam bots scan for servers that allow registration and can register thousands of accounts each day
  377. stvn Is there some xmpp monitor ?
  378. MattJ Also see https://prosody.im/doc/public_servers
  379. Ge0rG MattJ: it still lacks a big bold 30pt statement about the rule #1 of running public xmpp servers
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  381. Licaon_Kter > I tried it with 8 family members and about 20 people at FOSDEM I'm not doing this ^^^ so it scales :))
  382. Licaon_Kter Also clients can change passwords...c'mon
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  385. Licaon_Kter Ge0rG: what's that? _"DON'T"_?
  386. pep. Licaon_Kter, how many of these users are going to it (change passwords)
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  389. Licaon_Kter Let's not move the goalpost :))
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  394. pep. "Why do XMPP folk think that handing around passwords is acceptable in 2020?" < I'm not moving this one. I agree with the statement behind the question and I was just continuing to highlight pitfalls of your approach :)
  395. Licaon_Kter ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  396. Licaon_Kter ejabberd lol
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  398. Martin > Why do XMPP folk think that handing around passwords is acceptable in 2020? I had to do those for my apples.
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  400. Licaon_Kter MattJ: > Why do XMPP folk think that handing around passwords is acceptable in 2020? Having one client on one platform and one server...is acceptable? What is this now, Matrix?
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  402. pep. I agree that's a fair point. Neither protocols nor implementations are close to fixing this. That doesn't make handling around passwords more acceptable though
  403. MattJ Martin: Siskin has supported invite links since FOSDEM
  404. Ge0rG Licaon_Kter: exactly!
  405. MattJ And the invite page allows you to enter a password manually to create the account
  406. MattJ So no, I don't think a single implementation is healthy, and I don't think it's what we have
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  408. pep. MattJ, prosody's original mod_invite you mean?
  409. Martin MattJ: Hmm, didn't know that.
  410. Licaon_Kter MattJ: I do want all this ofcourse, but I can't erlang so there's that....
  411. MattJ pep.: original and the Snikket one
  412. pep. ok
  413. MattJ So from the user perspective the only difference with the new stuff is that you can register right within the app instead of on the site
  414. MattJ So no awkwardly typing your password twice
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