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Ellenor Malik
new spmamer
09:32:41
Ellenor Malik
jessieb@draugr.de
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10:18:56
tom
fcrazytapok@conversations.im OTR spam
10:19:09
tom
I've noticed a pattern too
10:19:25
tom
They send two roster requests over several days before sending the OTR spam
10:19:27
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tom
You don't have to accept them
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10:39:56
Ge0rG
interesting
10:40:04
Ge0rG
any other visible patterns?
10:40:19
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10:43:13
tom
The names
10:43:40
Ge0rG
random letter + wordlist item?
10:43:57
tom
They appear to be (although I haven't had enough spam to tell for sure if this is definitive or not yet) ascii constisting of a word and a couple random letters
10:44:01
tom
But always US-ASCII
10:44:09
tom
And at least one word
10:44:12
Ge0rG
Well, most JIDs consist of US-ASCII
10:44:26
tom
Yeah but the spam is in RU/EN
10:44:33
Ge0rG
Are there any pattern that can be used to differentiate them from real users?
10:44:37
tom
So you'd think they'd also have a cyrllic name
10:44:55
Ge0rG
I have many russian users on my server, but most of them also use latin names
10:44:56
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10:45:01
tom
I don't think I can give you any more differentiateable patterns yet Ge0rG
10:45:13
Ge0rG
I'd also take raw XML ;)
10:45:20
tom
Oh
10:45:25
Ge0rG
Unfortunately, the spammers didn't spam me yet.
10:45:30
tom
Well I'll be sure to capture that next time
10:45:33
jonas’
I prefer cooked XML over raw
10:45:42
tom
But
10:45:53
Ge0rG
jonas’: watch out, or I'll serve you some vegan JSON
10:45:59
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10:46:00
jonas’
Ge0rG, JSON can’t be vegan
10:46:04
jonas’
too much suffering associated with JSON
10:46:14
tom
When I send out the abuse reports to other operators, it's usually the case I hear back random IPs opened thousands of accounts a while ago
10:46:21
tom
And just now started becoming active
10:46:39
Ge0rG
tom: that's the usual pattern.
10:46:40
tom
And the operator is able to remove the accounts based on a bunch being registered in a timeframe
10:46:53
Ge0rG
tom: https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/05/12/new-anti-spam-measures/ has helped significantly
10:46:53
Ellenor Malik
I prefer beef and onion json
10:47:22
Ellenor Malik
which is less suffery than the vegan json i,ve eaten
10:47:27
tom
Well if that's the case maybe we could look at honeypotting new accounts after they dramticlly exceed normal new user rates
10:47:29
tom
As in
10:47:41
tom
Don't cancel them just capture the XML and pretend success
10:48:12
Ge0rG
I prefer not to silently blackhole new accounts, as there can always be false positives.
10:48:28
tom
Ge0rG: can you add my jid as a member to the yax.im spamfighting chat?
10:48:35
tom
I tried joinging but it was members only
10:48:38
tom
I need an invite
10:48:38
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has left
10:49:21
tom
Ge0rG: do you know what kind of captcha the spammer is talking about?
10:49:26
tom
The one he claims he can bypass
10:49:47
tom
Bypassing google recaptcha is hella easy and there are services for that
10:50:02
tom
But I was wondering if maybe there was a monoculture of captchas in the XMPP fedisphere
10:50:20
tom
And that's why bypassing was so effective, or he/she was talking out of their ass
10:50:59
tom
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10:51:31
tom
You know
10:51:39
tom
This same message is repeating every time
10:51:50
tom
How resistant exactly is OTR to crypanalysis
10:52:00
jonas’
very
10:52:04
tom
Well
10:52:06
tom
What about size
10:52:28
jonas’
size?
10:52:35
sonny
has joined
10:52:39
jonas’
you need to do a full OTR handshake before message contents are exchanged
10:52:41
Vaughan
has joined
10:52:50
tom
If you have a known plaintext can you infer if the ciphertext is the plaintext by looking at the size of the packet?
10:52:56
jonas’
for the handshake to succeed, you’d have to have key material which can recover the plaintext anyways
10:53:00
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has left
10:53:08
tom
No i'm not talking about reading the message
10:53:16
jonas’
but messages will not be sent before you could read them
10:53:16
tom
The spammer send the EXACT same message every time
10:53:29
jonas’
you cannot send (useful) OTR messages before the handshake is complete
10:53:41
tom
I'm wondering if you looked at the SIZE of the OTR ciphertext, if it was very similar or the same each time this message is sent
10:53:53
jonas’
for that you’d first need actual cipheretxt
10:54:00
jonas’
to get actual ciphertext, the handshake must have succeeded
10:54:16
jonas’
the "same" message you’re seeing is probably just the first message of the handshake
10:54:27
tom
I've seen encrypted voice systems fall over because people could pretty accurately guess words by looking at the packet size of an encrypted compressed VoIP stream
10:54:43
tom
(looking at your SiLK codec)
10:54:44
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has joined
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jonas’
classic compression-before-encryption problem.
10:54:59
jonas’
but that’s also completely unrelated to OTR
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