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Ellenor Malik
09:32:22
new spmamer
Ellenor Malik
09:32:41
jessieb@draugr.de
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tom
10:18:56
fcrazytapok@conversations.im OTR spam
tom
10:19:09
I've noticed a pattern too
tom
10:19:25
They send two roster requests over several days before sending the OTR spam
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tom
10:19:29
You don't have to accept them
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Ge0rG
10:39:56
interesting
Ge0rG
10:40:04
any other visible patterns?
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tom
10:43:13
The names
Ge0rG
10:43:40
random letter + wordlist item?
tom
10:43:57
They appear to be (although I haven't had enough spam to tell for sure if this is definitive or not yet) ascii constisting of a word and a couple random letters
tom
10:44:01
But always US-ASCII
tom
10:44:09
And at least one word
Ge0rG
10:44:12
Well, most JIDs consist of US-ASCII
tom
10:44:26
Yeah but the spam is in RU/EN
Ge0rG
10:44:33
Are there any pattern that can be used to differentiate them from real users?
tom
10:44:37
So you'd think they'd also have a cyrllic name
Ge0rG
10:44:55
I have many russian users on my server, but most of them also use latin names
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tom
10:45:01
I don't think I can give you any more differentiateable patterns yet Ge0rG
Ge0rG
10:45:13
I'd also take raw XML ;)
tom
10:45:20
Oh
Ge0rG
10:45:25
Unfortunately, the spammers didn't spam me yet.
tom
10:45:30
Well I'll be sure to capture that next time
jonas’
10:45:33
I prefer cooked XML over raw
tom
10:45:42
But
Ge0rG
10:45:53
jonas’: watch out, or I'll serve you some vegan JSON
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jonas’
10:46:00
Ge0rG, JSON can’t be vegan
jonas’
10:46:04
too much suffering associated with JSON
tom
10:46:14
When I send out the abuse reports to other operators, it's usually the case I hear back random IPs opened thousands of accounts a while ago
tom
10:46:21
And just now started becoming active
Ge0rG
10:46:39
tom: that's the usual pattern.
tom
10:46:40
And the operator is able to remove the accounts based on a bunch being registered in a timeframe
Ge0rG
10:46:53
tom: https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/05/12/new-anti-spam-measures/ has helped significantly
Ellenor Malik
10:46:53
I prefer beef and onion json
Ellenor Malik
10:47:22
which is less suffery than the vegan json i,ve eaten
tom
10:47:27
Well if that's the case maybe we could look at honeypotting new accounts after they dramticlly exceed normal new user rates
tom
10:47:29
As in
tom
10:47:41
Don't cancel them just capture the XML and pretend success
Ge0rG
10:48:12
I prefer not to silently blackhole new accounts, as there can always be false positives.
tom
10:48:28
Ge0rG: can you add my jid as a member to the yax.im spamfighting chat?
tom
10:48:35
I tried joinging but it was members only
tom
10:48:38
I need an invite
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tom
10:49:21
Ge0rG: do you know what kind of captcha the spammer is talking about?
tom
10:49:26
The one he claims he can bypass
tom
10:49:47
Bypassing google recaptcha is hella easy and there are services for that
tom
10:50:02
But I was wondering if maybe there was a monoculture of captchas in the XMPP fedisphere
tom
10:50:20
And that's why bypassing was so effective, or he/she was talking out of their ass
tom
10:50:59
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tom
10:51:31
You know
tom
10:51:39
This same message is repeating every time
tom
10:51:50
How resistant exactly is OTR to crypanalysis
jonas’
10:52:00
very
tom
10:52:04
Well
tom
10:52:06
What about size
jonas’
10:52:28
size?
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has joined
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jonas’
10:52:39
you need to do a full OTR handshake before message contents are exchanged
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has joined
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tom
10:52:50
If you have a known plaintext can you infer if the ciphertext is the plaintext by looking at the size of the packet?
jonas’
10:52:56
for the handshake to succeed, you’d have to have key material which can recover the plaintext anyways
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tom
10:53:08
No i'm not talking about reading the message
jonas’
10:53:16
but messages will not be sent before you could read them
tom
10:53:16
The spammer send the EXACT same message every time
jonas’
10:53:29
you cannot send (useful) OTR messages before the handshake is complete
tom
10:53:41
I'm wondering if you looked at the SIZE of the OTR ciphertext, if it was very similar or the same each time this message is sent
jonas’
10:53:53
for that you’d first need actual cipheretxt
jonas’
10:54:00
to get actual ciphertext, the handshake must have succeeded
jonas’
10:54:16
the "same" message you’re seeing is probably just the first message of the handshake
tom
10:54:27
I've seen encrypted voice systems fall over because people could pretty accurately guess words by looking at the packet size of an encrypted compressed VoIP stream
tom
10:54:43
(looking at your SiLK codec)
endymion666
has joined
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jonas’
10:54:51
classic compression-before-encryption problem.
jonas’
10:54:59
but that’s also completely unrelated to OTR
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