XMPP Service Operators - 2020-10-07


  1. abidal3 has left
  2. mimi89999 has left
  3. mimi89999 has joined
  4. kikuchiyo has joined
  5. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  6. vu764hd68fxt has left
  7. karim has left
  8. karim has joined
  9. karim has left
  10. karim has joined
  11. alien has joined
  12. jayteeuk has left
  13. jayteeuk has joined
  14. Jonny has left
  15. karim has left
  16. karim has joined
  17. jayteeuk has left
  18. jayteeuk has joined
  19. schorsch has left
  20. schorsch has joined
  21. karim has left
  22. karim has joined
  23. tom mike: I think matrix did that on purpose because they really want to be a closed centralized platform but use open sores marketing
  24. tom Like even telegram markets themselvs as open sores
  25. tom But that only really extends to the client. And it's not the kind of open source your used to. It's every now and then they dump a source code archive somewhere of their client and that's it.
  26. kikuchiyo has left
  27. tom Matrix has to have a way to differentiate itself. Also if you take a look at matrix infrastructure you'll notice it's very similar to gmail. Most users are on one big centralized server and also, there is only really 1 practical server implementation and client. Look at a list of known matrix instances and the software they are running
  28. tom Unofficially using other implementations is discouraged
  29. tom Plus using a standard URL format for user ids would make interop easier.
  30. derventio has left
  31. jayteeuk has left
  32. jayteeuk has joined
  33. karim has left
  34. kikuchiyo has joined
  35. karim has joined
  36. jayteeuk has left
  37. jayteeuk has joined
  38. ibikk has joined
  39. TMakarios has left
  40. TMakarios has joined
  41. stvn has left
  42. stvn has joined
  43. sol has left
  44. thndrbvr has left
  45. jayteeuk has left
  46. jayteeuk has joined
  47. Jonny has joined
  48. thndrbvr has joined
  49. holger has joined
  50. sol has joined
  51. karim has left
  52. karim has joined
  53. jayteeuk has left
  54. jayteeuk has joined
  55. karim has left
  56. ibikk has left
  57. karim has joined
  58. stefan has joined
  59. Pingu from Woodquarter has joined
  60. Huxx has joined
  61. jayteeuk has left
  62. jayteeuk has joined
  63. thndrbvr CognitiveDissonance: I've got both Synapse+Matrix via Docker and MetronomeIM + JSXC & GNU Social on my dedicated server but, they aren't used much at the moment. Unfortunately, I don't have a whole lot of feedback other than they're both great.
  64. thndrbvr There are other server implementations in the works, they just aren't finished/production ready last I checked. There's plenty of good Matrix clients, even in F-droid.
  65. mimi89999 has left
  66. holger has left
  67. mimi89999 has joined
  68. sol has left
  69. jayteeuk has left
  70. jayteeuk has joined
  71. stvn has left
  72. Licaon_Kter has joined
  73. holger has joined
  74. Licaon_Kter thndrbvr: I only see Element (and 3 forks) in F-Droid. Pattle has ceased development last month. There's only Synapse+Element+matrix.org, there's money only for that, the bespoke "slack killer" VCs pay for. They bought out their competition, Gitter.
  75. Licaon_Kter has left
  76. thndrbvr Schildichat is what I switched to the other day. Do forks (of Element) not count? They're young and may go far enough down their own path in the future.
  77. Beherit has left
  78. sonny has left
  79. thndrbvr If we want to save any project or entity from VCs, we, the people and smaller organizations, should donate or otherwise contribute (financially). Speaking from experience, it's not easy to get things off the ground without boatloads of cash.
  80. pod has joined
  81. Jonny has left
  82. Licaon_Kter has joined
  83. sonny has joined
  84. sonny has left
  85. jayteeuk has left
  86. jayteeuk has joined
  87. jayteeuk has left
  88. jayteeuk has joined
  89. Beherit has joined
  90. Licaon_Kter thndrbvr: forks depend on upstream and their $$ from VCs, same I don't count Pix-Art, Snikket, Conver6at6on6 and Quicksy as "different" apps from Conversations. But we have Xabber, aTalk, yaxim, StorkIM and Movim by comparison.
  91. Licaon_Kter thndrbvr: exactly, I'll repeat myself from elsewhere: _once the VC money drains, when their ecosystem budget matches XMPP....how will that work exactly?_
  92. sonny has joined
  93. stvn has joined
  94. kikuchiyo has left
  95. sol has joined
  96. jayteeuk has left
  97. jayteeuk has joined
  98. kikuchiyo has joined
  99. sonny has left
  100. Nils (10rokita) has left
  101. ibikk has joined
  102. Nils (10rokita) has joined
  103. derventio has joined
  104. stvn has left
  105. perflyst has joined
  106. stvn has joined
  107. thndrbvr There are plenty of projects that have started as forks but eventually their codebase has changed so much that they're something else entirely. Not XMPP related but, what comes to mind ATM is Firefox -> Palemoon.
  108. sonny has joined
  109. sonny has left
  110. sonny has joined
  111. thndrbvr Hopefully Matrix/Element will have established enough funding elsewhere to be self sustainable and sooner or later pay off their debts. This can't be done if people chastise and boycott them for taking VC money. What we need is a true competitor to the mainstream user abusive communication platforms/whatever. I'm starting a non-profit social network that uses these among other libre softwares. Right now it's funded from my day job. Hopefully others do similar things because that's what the world needs.
  112. sonny has left
  113. perflyst has left
  114. sonny has joined
  115. jayteeuk has left
  116. jayteeuk has joined
  117. thndrbvr The problem "with" XMPP seems to be that companies take what they can from it, slap proprietary code on top, close off decentralization aspects and only promote themselves. It'd be nice if others didn't do this. The only one I can think of would be Purism if they ever get their XMPP server up. Right now it's just Matrix-Synapse, I think. And Purism is pretty small and niche in the grand scheme of things but I feel like they're growing. They seem to have some goverment people/agencies wanting the Librem 5 phone so, who knows maybe we'll have a small influx of Purism XMPP chatters in the next couple years.
  118. jayteeuk has left
  119. jayteeuk has joined
  120. Licaon_Kter thndrbvr: I see them take $5mil every 2 years, if they have money already why sell NewVectors to pieces?
  121. kikuchiyo has left
  122. Licaon_Kter thndrbvr: they're not chastised for taking money, just for talking $hit while they're software is lacking
  123. thndrbvr Do you have any idea how much of a bottomless well marketing is? Lol. And paying people livable wages.
  124. Licaon_Kter thndrbvr: some will happen with Matrix, VCs can't into federation, past hasn't teach you anything?
  125. thndrbvr What's lacking? It's perfectly usable and enjoyable.
  126. Licaon_Kter > What's lacking? It's perfectly usable and enjoyable. thndrbvr: why are you here again?
  127. Jonny has joined
  128. Licaon_Kter thndrbvr: > Do you have any idea how much of a bottomless well marketing is? Lol. And paying people livable wages. Marketing iss needed....dendrite? 50% compat
  129. thndrbvr Because I run a XMPP server and am interested in this technology and community. Why are you here?
  130. thndrbvr What?
  131. thndrbvr > Licaon_Kter wrote: > thndrbvr: some will happen with Matrix, VCs can't into federation, past hasn't teach you anything? Maybe the world is changing. I mean, Microsoft is open sourcing a bunch of their stuff and contributing ever more to Linux. Lol. I'll agree that 99% of investors may not understand freedom and want to lock people in.
  132. thndrbvr I think we need to talk to schools more. Get them to use (Jitsi Meet) instead of Zoom et. al.
  133. sonny has left
  134. Licaon_Kter Why don't you run Matrix then? They integrade JitsiMeet too.
  135. Licaon_Kter Why don't you run Matrix then? They ewen integrate JitsiMeet too.
  136. Licaon_Kter Why don't you run Matrix then? They even integrate JitsiMeet too.
  137. sonny has joined
  138. Beherit has left
  139. thndrbvr Part of the issue is that these for profit companies are instilling a certain ideology in (business) students. They market and this is what professors and management know and that's it. We need to show them other viable ways of doing things.
  140. sonny has left
  141. Beherit has joined
  142. rom1dep has left
  143. abidal3 has joined
  144. rom1dep has joined
  145. madmalkav has joined
  146. TMakarios has left
  147. jayteeuk has left
  148. jayteeuk has joined
  149. sonny has joined
  150. sonny has left
  151. stvn has left
  152. schorsch has left
  153. sonny has joined
  154. stvn has joined
  155. rom1dep has left
  156. tom » <thndrbvr> The problem "with" XMPP seems to be that companies take what they can from it, slap proprietary code on top, close off decentralization aspects and only promote themselves. It'd be nice if others didn't do this. The only one I can think of would be Purism if they ever get their XMPP server up. Right now it's just Matrix-Synapse, I think. And Purism is pretty small and niche in the grand scheme of things but I feel like they're growing. They seem to have some goverment people/agencies wanting the Librem 5 phone so, who knows maybe we'll have a small influx of Purism XMPP chatters in the next couple years. I wrote about this before on a mailing list » Or Zoom could stop purposefully breaking federation with other XMPP » servers, allow anyone with an XMPP client and jingle support to » communicate instead of forcing everyone to use their trashy spyware » binary blobs. » » The worst thing about all these proprietary IM walled gardens is that » they take from the free software community but they never give back. In » fact, they leave less than nothing. They actively harm it when they » refuse to be interoperable with the very technologies they bootstrapped » their company off, like ejabberd and prosody.
  157. Jonny has left
  158. kikuchiyo has joined
  159. Jonny has joined
  160. sonny has left
  161. sonny has joined
  162. Douglas Terabyte has left
  163. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  164. mehdi has left
  165. brilliance has left
  166. thndrbvr I don't think zoom would or could at this point given that they're handing data over to the US gov't. They're so big now that even if they did open the doors they'd still be able to make money. But, now that they have tasted that sweet green and have gotten their fame, how could they be humble and cooperative with the community? How could they give up the attention? They're only concerned with getting even bigger and staying on top I'm sure. Never mind truly helping the world. I mean, they bought Keybase.io and for what? I haven't heard that group being able to really improve anything besides PR.
  167. tom I used to be on keybase
  168. tom Back when it was alpha and invite only
  169. derventio has left
  170. stvn has left
  171. jayteeuk has left
  172. jayteeuk has joined
  173. Douglas Terabyte has left
  174. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  175. stvn has joined
  176. rom1dep has joined
  177. alex-a-soto has left
  178. alex-a-soto has joined
  179. schorsch has joined
  180. jayteeuk has left
  181. jayteeuk has joined
  182. stvn has left
  183. stvn has joined
  184. rom1dep has left
  185. thndrbvr has left
  186. thndrbvr has joined
  187. abidal3 has left
  188. rom1dep has joined
  189. jayteeuk has left
  190. jayteeuk has joined
  191. sonny has left
  192. sonny has joined
  193. stvn has left
  194. sonny has left
  195. kikuchiyo has left
  196. stvn has joined
  197. sonny has joined
  198. ibikk has left
  199. sonny has left
  200. kikuchiyo has joined
  201. kikuchiyo has left
  202. vanitasvitae has left
  203. kikuchiyo has joined
  204. kikuchiyo has left
  205. sonny has joined
  206. TMakarios has joined
  207. vanitasvitae has joined
  208. ibikk has joined
  209. sonny has left
  210. sonny has joined
  211. kikuchiyo has joined
  212. kikuchiyo has left
  213. jayteeuk has left
  214. jayteeuk has joined
  215. jayteeuk has left
  216. jayteeuk has joined
  217. stvn has left
  218. stvn has joined
  219. ajeremias has joined
  220. kikuchiyo has joined
  221. kikuchiyo has left
  222. sonny has left
  223. SouL has left
  224. SouL has joined
  225. TMakarios > thndrbvr wrote: > I don't think zoom would or could at this point given that they're handing data over to the US gov't. I must have missed that news. Have you got a link to somewhere I could read about it?
  226. sonny has joined
  227. Licaon_Kter TMakarios: they use some signaling, not sure _"it's xmpp"_
  228. mehdi has joined
  229. kikuchiyo has joined
  230. kikuchiyo has left
  231. kikuchiyo has joined
  232. kikuchiyo has left
  233. Jonny has left
  234. jayteeuk has left
  235. jayteeuk has joined
  236. jayteeuk has left
  237. jayteeuk has joined
  238. brilliance has joined
  239. stvn has left
  240. perflyst has joined
  241. kikuchiyo has joined
  242. kikuchiyo has left
  243. sonny has left
  244. brilliance has left
  245. brilliance has joined
  246. mehdi has left
  247. sonny has joined
  248. stvn has joined
  249. perflyst has left
  250. tom Licaon_Kter: indeed has job postings for 'XMPP engineer' in silicon valley
  251. tom For zoom
  252. ajeremias has left
  253. Licaon_Kter Yes..but from that to federation, it's a long way
  254. stvn has left
  255. TMakarios Licaon_Kter, tom: I was more interested in what data they were handing to the US government, though the question of whether they use XMPP is also interesting.
  256. stvn has joined
  257. brilliance has left
  258. Jonny has joined
  259. derventio has joined
  260. sonny has left
  261. stvn has left
  262. vu764hd68fxt has joined
  263. brilliance has joined
  264. stvn has joined
  265. mehdi has joined
  266. Roi has left
  267. sonny has joined
  268. Roi has joined
  269. cuc has joined
  270. sonny has left
  271. sonny has joined
  272. vu764hd68fxt has left
  273. vu764hd68fxt has joined
  274. Beherit has left
  275. Beherit has joined
  276. sonny has left
  277. kikuchiyo has joined
  278. kikuchiyo has left
  279. abidal3 has joined
  280. kikuchiyo has joined
  281. kikuchiyo has left
  282. kikuchiyo has joined
  283. sonny has joined
  284. sonny has left
  285. sonny has joined
  286. Mel has left
  287. stvn has left
  288. Mel has joined
  289. stvn has joined
  290. kikuchiyo has left
  291. derventio has left
  292. drops has left
  293. drops has joined
  294. jayteeuk has left
  295. jayteeuk has joined
  296. derventio has joined
  297. abidal3 has left
  298. ajeremias has joined
  299. Bakunin has joined
  300. Bakunin has left
  301. Ge0rG has left
  302. Ge0rG has joined
  303. Pingu from Woodquarter has left
  304. cuc has left
  305. jayteeuk has left
  306. jayteeuk has joined
  307. jayteeuk has left
  308. jayteeuk has joined
  309. brilliance has left
  310. cuc has joined
  311. stvn has left
  312. stvn has joined
  313. Mel has left
  314. Mel has joined
  315. ajeremias has left
  316. 404.city has joined
  317. kikuchiyo has joined
  318. kikuchiyo has left
  319. jayteeuk has left
  320. jayteeuk has joined
  321. jayteeuk has left
  322. jayteeuk has joined
  323. 404.city has left
  324. ajeremias has joined
  325. stvn has left
  326. stvn has joined
  327. alex has left
  328. Douglas Terabyte has left
  329. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  330. ajeremias has left
  331. vu764hd68fxt has left
  332. korisnik5 has joined
  333. alex-a-soto has left
  334. alex-a-soto has joined
  335. loopboom has joined
  336. stvn has left
  337. stvn has joined
  338. abidal3 has joined
  339. ruety has joined
  340. Douglas Terabyte has left
  341. jayteeuk has left
  342. jayteeuk has joined
  343. brilliance has joined
  344. jayteeuk has left
  345. jayteeuk has joined
  346. Viktor Lindberg has joined
  347. vu764hd68fxt has joined
  348. alex has joined
  349. ibikk has left
  350. korisnik5 has left
  351. vu764hd68fxt has left
  352. korisnik5 has joined
  353. vu764hd68fxt has joined
  354. korisnik5 has left
  355. korisnik5 has joined
  356. ruety has left
  357. Pingu from Woodquarter has joined
  358. jayteeuk has left
  359. jayteeuk has joined
  360. stvn has left
  361. stvn has joined
  362. ajeremias has joined
  363. cuc has left
  364. loopboom has left
  365. Mel has left
  366. sol has left
  367. Bakunin has joined
  368. Bakunin has left
  369. Mel has joined
  370. carlos has left
  371. carlos has joined
  372. kikuchiyo has joined
  373. kikuchiyo has left
  374. ajeremias has left
  375. jayteeuk has left
  376. jayteeuk has joined
  377. jayteeuk has left
  378. jayteeuk has joined
  379. kikuchiyo has joined
  380. kikuchiyo has left
  381. sol has joined
  382. ajeremias has joined
  383. stvn has left
  384. stvn has joined
  385. kikuchiyo has joined
  386. kikuchiyo has left
  387. schorsch has left
  388. raghavgururajan has left
  389. raghavgururajan has joined
  390. antranigv has joined
  391. kikuchiyo has joined
  392. kikuchiyo has left
  393. sonny has left
  394. sonny has joined
  395. ajeremias has left
  396. vu764hd68fxt has left
  397. vu764hd68fxt has joined
  398. ibikk has joined
  399. stvn has left
  400. ajeremias has joined
  401. sonny has left
  402. stvn has joined
  403. kikuchiyo has joined
  404. kikuchiyo has left
  405. sonny has joined
  406. sonny has left
  407. kikuchiyo has joined
  408. kikuchiyo has left
  409. sonny has joined
  410. thndrbvr Security Now and Threatwire were covering Zoom's back and forth with encryption and basically just determined not to use Zoom because they were untrustworthy.
  411. thndrbvr It might be that paying customers/users can have e2e encryption but, since it's closed source, we'll never know if there's a back door.
  412. ajeremias has left
  413. korisnik5 has left
  414. perflyst has joined
  415. schorsch has joined
  416. schorsch has left
  417. schorsch has joined
  418. schorsch has left
  419. karim has left
  420. karim has joined
  421. 10rokita has joined
  422. carlos has left
  423. carlos has joined
  424. Mel has left
  425. perflyst has left
  426. perflyst has joined
  427. Mel has joined
  428. jayteeuk has left
  429. jayteeuk has joined
  430. jayteeuk has left
  431. jayteeuk has joined
  432. cuc has joined
  433. stvn has left
  434. stvn has joined
  435. Nils (10rokita) has left
  436. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  437. ezra-koschitzky has joined
  438. Nils (10rokita) has joined
  439. joerg has left
  440. joerg has joined
  441. schorsch has joined
  442. joerg has left
  443. joerg has joined
  444. perflyst has left
  445. perflyst has joined
  446. jayteeuk has left
  447. jayteeuk has joined
  448. ezra-koschitzky has left
  449. ajeremias has joined
  450. tom It's not e2e
  451. tom It just means your using tls if you pay
  452. ezra-koschitzky has joined
  453. stvn has left
  454. stvn has joined
  455. ibikk has left
  456. ibikk has joined
  457. antranigv has left
  458. ezra-koschitzky has left
  459. ajeremias has left
  460. mehdi has left
  461. mehdi has joined
  462. Licaon_Kter tom: they use TLS already
  463. ezra-koschitzky has joined
  464. sonny has left
  465. sonny has joined
  466. derventio has left
  467. sonny has left
  468. sonny has joined
  469. Roi has left
  470. raghavgururajan has left
  471. quantumwings has left
  472. Roi has joined
  473. raghavgururajan has joined
  474. Roi has left
  475. raghavgururajan has left
  476. Roi has joined
  477. Roi has left
  478. carlos has left
  479. carlos has joined
  480. Roi has joined
  481. quantumwings has joined
  482. raghavgururajan has joined
  483. stefan has left
  484. Roi has left
  485. quantumwings has left
  486. raghavgururajan has left
  487. Roi has joined
  488. raghavgururajan has joined
  489. quantumwings has joined
  490. stvn has left
  491. stvn has joined
  492. mimi89999 has left
  493. mimi89999 has joined
  494. perflyst has left
  495. perflyst has joined
  496. Beherit has left
  497. mimi89999 has left
  498. mimi89999 has joined
  499. perflyst has left
  500. perflyst has joined
  501. kikuchiyo has joined
  502. kikuchiyo has left
  503. Mel has left
  504. Mel has joined
  505. Viktor Lindberg has left
  506. kikuchiyo has joined
  507. kikuchiyo has left
  508. Beherit has joined
  509. kikuchiyo has joined
  510. kikuchiyo has left
  511. Mel has left
  512. Mel has joined
  513. kikuchiyo has joined
  514. kikuchiyo has left
  515. Viktor Lindberg has joined
  516. kikuchiyo has joined
  517. kikuchiyo has left
  518. kikuchiyo has joined
  519. kikuchiyo has left
  520. schorsch has left
  521. ezra-koschitzky has left
  522. kikuchiyo has joined
  523. kikuchiyo has left
  524. kikuchiyo has joined
  525. kikuchiyo has left
  526. kikuchiyo has joined
  527. kikuchiyo has left
  528. kikuchiyo has joined
  529. kikuchiyo has left
  530. perflyst has left
  531. kikuchiyo has joined
  532. kikuchiyo has left
  533. vu764hd68fxt has left
  534. kikuchiyo has joined
  535. kikuchiyo has left
  536. jayteeuk has left
  537. jayteeuk has joined
  538. vu764hd68fxt has joined
  539. kikuchiyo has joined
  540. kikuchiyo has left
  541. kikuchiyo has joined
  542. kikuchiyo has left
  543. kikuchiyo has joined
  544. kikuchiyo has left
  545. kikuchiyo has joined
  546. kikuchiyo has left
  547. cuc has left
  548. Coyo has joined
  549. kikuchiyo has joined
  550. kikuchiyo has left
  551. kikuchiyo has joined
  552. kikuchiyo has left
  553. kikuchiyo has joined
  554. kikuchiyo has left
  555. kikuchiyo has joined
  556. kikuchiyo has left
  557. kikuchiyo has joined
  558. kikuchiyo has left
  559. kikuchiyo has joined
  560. kikuchiyo has left
  561. kikuchiyo has joined
  562. kikuchiyo has left
  563. sol has left
  564. kikuchiyo has joined
  565. kikuchiyo has left
  566. kikuchiyo has joined
  567. kikuchiyo has left
  568. sol has joined
  569. kikuchiyo has joined
  570. kikuchiyo has left
  571. karim has left
  572. kikuchiyo has joined
  573. kikuchiyo has left
  574. ibikk has left
  575. kikuchiyo has joined
  576. kikuchiyo has left
  577. vanitasvitae has left
  578. kikuchiyo has joined
  579. kikuchiyo has left
  580. kikuchiyo has joined
  581. kikuchiyo has left
  582. kikuchiyo has joined
  583. kikuchiyo has left
  584. kikuchiyo has joined
  585. kikuchiyo has left
  586. vanitasvitae has joined
  587. pod has left
  588. kikuchiyo has joined
  589. karim has joined
  590. kikuchiyo has left
  591. jayteeuk has left
  592. jayteeuk has joined
  593. Pingu from Woodquarter has left
  594. kikuchiyo has joined
  595. kikuchiyo has left
  596. kikuchiyo has joined
  597. vu764hd68fxt has left
  598. Viktor Lindberg has left
  599. Viktor Lindberg has joined
  600. Huxx has left
  601. antranigv has joined
  602. karim has left
  603. karim has joined
  604. derventio has joined
  605. stvn has left
  606. Mel has left
  607. Mel has joined
  608. jayteeuk has left
  609. jayteeuk has joined
  610. stvn has joined
  611. madmalkav has left
  612. Licaon_Kter has left
  613. ralphm has left
  614. ralphm has joined
  615. jayteeuk has left
  616. jayteeuk has joined
  617. 10rokita has left
  618. 10rokita has joined
  619. antranigv has left
  620. 10rokita has left
  621. stvn has left
  622. stvn has joined
  623. antranigv has joined
  624. abidal3 has left
  625. stvn has left
  626. stvn has joined
  627. jayteeuk has left
  628. holger has left
  629. jayteeuk has joined
  630. tom has left
  631. tom has joined
  632. alex-a-soto has left
  633. alex-a-soto has joined
  634. stvn has left
  635. stvn has joined
  636. Nils (10rokita) has left
  637. jayteeuk has left
  638. jayteeuk has joined
  639. jayteeuk has left
  640. jayteeuk has joined
  641. vu764hd68fxt has joined
  642. Nils (10rokita) has joined
  643. carlos has left
  644. carlos has joined
  645. carlos has left
  646. carlos has joined
  647. jayteeuk has left
  648. jayteeuk has joined
  649. stvn has left
  650. stvn has joined
  651. vu764hd68fxt has left