XMPP Service Operators

00:11:45 qnix has left
00:11:52 qnix has joined
00:16:57 qnix has left
00:27:22 derventio has left
00:30:21 Arne has left
00:30:21 arne-bruen has left
00:32:02 arne-bruen has joined
00:32:02 Arne has joined
00:36:52 qnix has joined
00:36:57 jayteeuk has left
00:36:58 jayteeuk has joined
00:37:55 jayteeuk has left
00:37:55 jayteeuk has joined
00:41:19 steven has left
00:41:53 qnix has left
00:57:30 qnix has joined
01:02:31 qnix has left
01:02:31 Arne has left
01:02:31 arne-bruen has left
01:03:00 arne-bruen has joined
01:04:33 Arne has joined
01:06:38 derventio has joined
01:11:52 qnix has joined
01:24:31 Kris has left
01:32:52 presprout has joined
01:36:58 jayteeuk has left
01:36:58 jayteeuk has joined
01:37:55 jayteeuk has left
01:37:55 jayteeuk has joined
01:48:54 derventio has left
01:50:03 raghavgururajan has left
01:50:35 raghavgururajan has joined
02:04:09 stvn has left
02:06:57 jayteeuk has left
02:06:58 jayteeuk has joined
02:07:57 patasca has joined
02:07:59 jayteeuk has left
02:07:59 jayteeuk has joined
02:10:35 qnix has left
02:11:53 qnix has joined
02:13:16 stvn has joined
02:18:23 patasca has left
02:18:26 patasca has joined
02:24:29 argon3771 has left
02:24:30 argon3771 has joined
02:42:37 alacer has left
02:53:28 Ge0rG has left
02:53:44 frog has joined
02:59:11 patasca has left
02:59:30 Ellenor Malik has left
02:59:48 Ellenor Malik has joined
03:05:17 Holly Lotor has joined
03:05:18 alacer has joined
03:13:04 patasca has joined
03:19:55 loopboom has left
03:19:55 stvn has left
03:23:31 stvn has joined
03:24:05 raghavgururajan has left
03:24:29 raghavgururajan has joined
03:25:16 neox has left
03:36:14 loopboom has joined
04:01:24 frog has left
04:02:33 Ellenor Malik has left
04:02:45 Ellenor Malik has joined
04:04:40 Ellenor Malik has left
04:05:53 Ellenor Malik has joined
04:06:57 jayteeuk has left
04:06:58 jayteeuk has joined
04:07:54 jayteeuk has left
04:07:54 jayteeuk has joined
04:11:39 patasca has left
04:13:30 stvn has left
04:13:44 Ellenor Malik has left
04:13:52 Ellenor Malik has joined
04:14:15 Bjarkan has left
04:17:32 Bjarkan has joined
04:18:48 stvn has joined
04:19:20 Ellenor Malik oh god
04:19:41 Ellenor Malik can someone help me diagnose a correct-password unauthorized problem?
04:20:33 stvn has left
04:21:01 stvn has joined
04:24:20 Steven Roose has left
04:29:32 sol has left
04:33:24 Ellenor Malik has left
04:35:25 pod has joined
04:36:04 Ellenor Malik has joined
04:43:04 pintosesk has left
04:50:13 stefan has joined
04:50:22 wladmis has left
04:56:58 loopboom has left
05:01:11 ibikk has joined
05:07:20 kusoneko has left
05:07:27 kusoneko has joined
05:09:14 Huxx has joined
05:11:21 Menel has joined
05:30:07 lorddavidiii has joined
05:39:48 some1 has joined
05:48:18 Douglas Terabyte has left
05:48:47 Douglas Terabyte has joined
05:57:32 stvn has left
05:59:42 ru_maniac has left
06:00:20 Licaon_Kter has joined
06:02:14 openchat has joined
06:03:30 TMakarios has left
06:03:31 TMakarios has joined
06:04:15 ru_maniac has joined
06:04:16 sol has joined
06:05:22 stvn has joined
06:06:57 jayteeuk has left
06:06:57 jayteeuk has joined
06:07:59 jayteeuk has left
06:07:59 jayteeuk has joined
06:10:32 some1 has left
06:14:22 some1 has joined
06:24:15 nickomemo has left
06:25:45 nickomemo has joined
06:31:46 nickomemo has left
06:33:21 derventio has joined
06:41:52 openchat has left
06:42:31 openchat has joined
06:54:54 jayteeuk has left
06:54:58 jayteeuk has joined
06:57:51 Martin has left
06:58:36 Martin has joined
07:06:57 jayteeuk has left
07:06:58 jayteeuk has joined
07:08:02 jayteeuk has left
07:08:02 jayteeuk has joined
07:13:26 lorddavidiii has left
07:14:45 raghavgururajan has left
07:21:15 mjk has joined
07:26:37 openchat has left
07:26:38 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has left
07:26:53 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has joined
07:27:05 guus.der.kinderen has left
07:27:27 Menel has left
07:34:17 404.city has joined
07:34:52 404.city has left
07:35:40 lorddavidiii has joined
07:37:03 jayteeuk has left
07:37:04 jayteeuk has joined
07:37:09 frog has joined
07:41:07 derventio has left
07:41:16 derventio has joined
07:43:22 mehdi has left
07:46:41 stvn has left
07:52:17 Ge0rG has joined
07:53:11 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has left
07:53:14 stvn has joined
07:53:20 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has joined
07:55:39 junaid has left
07:56:18 86ul has joined
07:59:49 junaid has joined
08:02:30 rom1dep has joined
08:05:17 henrik has joined
08:07:00 jayteeuk has left
08:07:00 jayteeuk has joined
08:08:14 jayteeuk has left
08:08:15 jayteeuk has joined
08:08:37 Steven Roose has joined
08:09:01 abidal3 has joined
08:09:33 junaid has left
08:09:38 junaid has joined
08:10:34 madmalkav has joined
08:10:59 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has left
08:15:08 jayteeuk has left
08:15:13 jayteeuk has joined
08:21:00 nickomemo has joined
08:22:54 creep.im has left
08:22:56 creep.im has joined
08:27:49 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has joined
08:27:52 rom1dep has left
08:28:37 qnix has left
08:31:53 qnix has joined
08:33:53 stvn has left
08:35:24 xi has left
08:39:42 jayteeuk has left
08:39:42 jayteeuk has joined
08:40:19 Ellenor Malik has left
08:41:38 Ellenor Malik has joined
08:43:04 stvn has joined
08:45:36 jayteeuk has left
08:45:37 jayteeuk has joined
08:55:31 Viktor Lindberg has left
08:55:48 Viktor Lindberg has joined
08:56:13 jayteeuk has left
08:56:13 jayteeuk has joined
08:57:23 neox has joined
09:01:22 qnix has left
09:02:03 stvn has left
09:04:37 abidal3 has left
09:06:58 jayteeuk has left
09:06:59 jayteeuk has joined
09:08:13 stvn has joined
09:08:19 jayteeuk has left
09:08:20 jayteeuk has joined
09:10:17 ajeremias has joined
09:14:32 ntuseracc has joined
09:15:09 lorddavidiii has left
09:30:44 stvn has left
09:31:07 stvn has joined
09:33:55 Menel has joined
09:35:18 qnix has joined
09:37:41 derventio has left
09:42:54 qnix has left
09:43:34 ajeremias has left
09:46:13 lorddavidiii has joined
09:50:25 qnix has joined
09:50:47 stvn has left
09:53:12 stvn has joined
09:53:48 pintosesk has joined
09:58:05 qnix has left
09:58:28 stvn has left
10:00:55 patasca has joined
10:01:51 mehdi has joined
10:01:52 qnix has joined
10:06:56 qnix has left
10:06:58 jayteeuk has left
10:06:59 jayteeuk has joined
10:07:53 jayteeuk has left
10:07:53 jayteeuk has joined
10:09:03 loopboom has joined
10:10:58 stefan has left
10:10:58 loopboom has left
10:11:09 loopboom has joined
10:11:19 stefan has joined
10:12:53 stvn has joined
10:13:10 some1 has left
10:14:20 patasca has left
10:18:08 stvn has left
10:21:12 presprout has left
10:22:21 loopboom has left
10:23:21 patasca has joined
10:26:52 qnix has joined
10:26:56 inky has left
10:32:04 mss_cyclist has left
10:32:12 mss_cyclist has joined
10:33:06 stvn has joined
10:33:45 frog has left
10:41:48 some1 has joined
10:43:29 Kris has joined
10:47:24 patasca has left
10:49:09 mehdi has left
10:51:19 Menel has left
10:54:35 nickomemo has left
10:56:15 Viktor Lindberg has left
10:56:21 Viktor Lindberg has joined
10:57:30 frog has joined
11:03:32 lorddavidiii has left
11:05:28 steven has joined
11:06:30 mimi89999 https://is.gd/SyJF9o
11:06:38 mimi89999 Is that the Jabber spam service?
11:06:56 mimi89999 BTW, got spam from `intercoracoid@404.city`.
11:06:59 some1 has left
11:07:15 mimi89999 real and rare
11:07:19 Ge0rG mimi89999: that's a jabber spam service indeed
11:08:01 ntuseracc has left
11:08:25 mimi89999 Can the operators of those servers remove their accounts or we block their servers?
11:08:34 mimi89999 Who is the admin of 404 city?
11:09:19 Ge0rG he's often here as 404city
11:11:30 Beherit has left
11:14:44 mimi89999 I'm flooded with spam from that server now.
11:14:52 mimi89999 Like one message every 10 sec
11:16:37 Beherit has joined
11:17:14 Ge0rG mimi89999: from the same account or from different ones?
11:17:21 patasca has joined
11:17:35 mimi89999 Where is he?
11:17:49 mimi89999 Same
11:17:58 Ge0rG mimi89999: I've pinged the admin now
11:18:01 tom Yes there's a channel
11:18:06 tom A process
11:18:28 tom You have to give them some time to proccess the abuse request though before they get in a blocklist
11:18:55 mimi89999 OK. Can you link the channel/form/whatever?
11:18:56 kikuchiyo has left
11:19:07 tom What's that private spamfighting muc on yax.im again?
11:19:16 tom I got an invite ounce but forgot about it
11:19:50 some1 has joined
11:19:50 lorddavidiii has joined
11:19:57 Ge0rG it doesn't exist any more
11:20:06 tom mimi89999: https://github.com/JabberSPAM
11:23:05 mimi89999 How to quickly block a JID server level?
11:24:45 tom With mod_firewall
11:24:50 tom Or for a specific account
11:25:09 tom https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0191.html
11:26:39 antranigv has joined
11:27:03 some1 has left
11:27:44 some1 has joined
11:27:58 ajeremias has joined
11:28:27 frog has left
11:28:41 mimi89999 has left
11:28:50 patasca has left
11:28:54 patasca has joined
11:29:08 mimi89999 has joined
11:33:22 kikuchiyo has joined
11:33:27 kikuchiyo has left
11:33:58 patasca has left
11:34:01 patasca has joined
11:34:05 some1 has left
11:35:16 stvn has left
11:35:49 stvn has joined
11:37:20 some1 has joined
11:38:02 kikuchiyo has joined
11:38:03 kikuchiyo has left
11:43:11 lorddavidiii has left
11:43:28 kikuchiyo has joined
11:43:29 kikuchiyo has left
11:45:14 raghavgururajan has joined
11:46:42 raghavgururajan has left
11:47:25 raghavgururajan has joined
11:50:21 kikuchiyo has joined
11:50:29 kikuchiyo has left
11:56:34 kikuchiyo has joined
11:56:35 kikuchiyo has left
11:58:57 kikuchiyo has joined
11:59:03 kikuchiyo has left
12:02:51 some1 has left
12:03:29 netbk.de has left
12:04:02 Ge0rG has left
12:04:20 patasca has left
12:04:37 patasca has joined
12:08:05 jayteeuk has left
12:08:05 jayteeuk has joined
12:08:53 jayteeuk has left
12:08:54 steven has left
12:08:57 jayteeuk has joined
12:09:43 raghavgururajan has left
12:10:08 raghavgururajan has joined
12:11:34 lorddavidiii has joined
12:13:07 some1 has joined
12:16:17 Ge0rG has joined
12:17:34 stvn has left
12:20:14 steven has joined
12:21:47 stvn has joined
12:23:13 some1 has left
12:25:42 some1 has joined
12:29:01 kikuchiyo has joined
12:29:06 kikuchiyo has left
12:30:50 jayteeuk has left
12:30:57 jayteeuk has joined
12:35:48 xi has joined
12:37:00 jayteeuk has left
12:37:01 jayteeuk has joined
12:38:10 kikuchiyo has joined
12:38:12 kikuchiyo has left
12:38:17 jayteeuk has left
12:38:18 jayteeuk has joined
12:38:42 patasca has left
12:38:45 patasca has joined
12:39:12 some1 has left
12:39:38 inky has joined
12:40:53 patasca has left
12:40:56 patasca has joined
12:43:57 kikuchiyo has joined
12:43:57 kikuchiyo has left
12:44:54 rom1dep has joined
12:50:15 kikuchiyo has joined
12:50:15 kikuchiyo has left
12:54:45 kikuchiyo has joined
12:54:45 kikuchiyo has left
12:55:12 some1 has joined
13:01:52 some1 has left
13:07:30 kikuchiyo has joined
13:07:30 kikuchiyo has left
13:18:27 sol has left
13:18:35 sol has joined
13:22:04 patasca has left
13:22:07 patasca has joined
13:24:31 rom1dep has left
13:25:09 frog has joined
13:26:12 kikuchiyo has joined
13:26:17 kikuchiyo has left
13:27:18 kikuchiyo has joined
13:27:18 kikuchiyo has left
13:31:12 some1 has joined
13:31:47 kikuchiyo has joined
13:31:48 kikuchiyo has left
13:33:33 perflyst has joined
13:34:14 guus.der.kinderen has joined
13:36:10 kikuchiyo has joined
13:36:13 kikuchiyo has left
13:38:06 kikuchiyo has joined
13:38:08 kikuchiyo has left
13:38:41 ajeremias has left
13:39:58 alien has left
13:40:30 alien has joined
13:45:05 guus.der.kinderen has left
13:46:55 kikuchiyo has joined
13:46:55 kikuchiyo has left
13:49:37 lorddavidiii has left
13:50:40 lorddavidiii has joined
13:51:44 wladmis has joined
13:51:46 kikuchiyo has joined
13:51:46 kikuchiyo has left
13:56:48 ntuseracc has joined
13:57:16 kikuchiyo has joined
13:57:19 kikuchiyo has left
13:57:42 perflyst has left
13:59:28 patasca has left
14:00:19 patasca has joined
14:01:16 rom1dep has joined
14:02:28 some1 has left
14:04:04 kikuchiyo has joined
14:04:04 kikuchiyo has left
14:07:13 jayteeuk has left
14:07:14 jayteeuk has joined
14:07:32 frog has left
14:10:09 kikuchiyo has joined
14:10:09 kikuchiyo has left
14:11:26 qnix has left
14:11:29 qnix has joined
14:12:32 kikuchiyo has joined
14:12:35 kikuchiyo has left
14:14:15 kikuchiyo has joined
14:14:15 kikuchiyo has left
14:14:44 kikuchiyo has joined
14:14:49 kikuchiyo has left
14:15:30 Viktor Lindberg has left
14:15:36 Viktor Lindberg has joined
14:17:31 patasca has left
14:17:33 patasca has joined
14:19:47 kikuchiyo has joined
14:19:49 Menel has joined
14:19:53 kikuchiyo has left
14:22:32 rom1dep has left
14:25:32 kikuchiyo has joined
14:25:37 kikuchiyo has left
14:25:43 lorddavidiii has left
14:27:11 lorddavidiii has joined
14:27:29 patasca has left
14:27:32 patasca has joined
14:30:49 kikuchiyo has joined
14:30:56 kikuchiyo has left
14:33:38 henrik has left
14:35:56 kikuchiyo has joined
14:35:57 kikuchiyo has left
14:36:34 nickomemo has joined
14:38:14 lorddavidiii has left
14:41:35 henrik has joined
14:44:04 kikuchiyo has joined
14:44:16 kikuchiyo has left
14:50:37 kikuchiyo has joined
14:50:38 kikuchiyo has left
14:52:06 kikuchiyo has joined
14:52:11 kikuchiyo has left
14:53:03 bastoon > mimi89999: https://github.com/JabberSPAM Should it rather contain only registered domain names (to ICANN registrars) and not sub-domains? This might break implementations if you change the format in a hurry (and that probably will one day).
14:55:37 kikuchiyo has joined
14:55:37 kikuchiyo has left
14:57:05 henrik has left
14:57:08 henrik has joined
14:57:31 Jonny has left
14:57:31 bastoon > mimi89999: https://github.com/JabberSPAM Shouldn't it rather contain only registered domain names (to ICANN registrars) and not sub-domains? This might break implementations if you change the format in a hurry (and that probably will one day).
14:57:33 Jonny has joined
14:58:03 qnix has left
14:58:06 mss_cyclist has left
14:58:15 mss_cyclist has joined
15:00:26 bastoon > mimi89999: https://github.com/JabberSPAM Why this list contains FQDNs. IMO no need for sub-domains, and only disavantages. Then if format is changed in a hurry, this may break current implementation (and that probably will one day).
15:00:33 patasca has left
15:01:08 bastoon > mimi89999: https://github.com/JabberSPAM Why do this list contain FQDNs. IMO no need for sub-domains, only cons. Then if format is changed in a hurry, this may break current implementation (and that probably will one day).
15:01:37 Martin bastoon: Because some xmppds are served on a subdomain.
15:01:39 kikuchiyo has joined
15:01:39 kikuchiyo has left
15:02:19 qnix has joined
15:03:26 bastoon Martin: I'm sure spammers will exploit the possibility to infinite subs. Then don't think you'll ever have to consider multiple (sub) servers per names, one being ok, the other one spammer.
15:03:32 pintosesk has left
15:03:47 bastoon Martin: I'm sure spammers will exploit the possibility to infinite subs. Then I don't think you'll ever have to consider multiple (sub) servers per names, one being ok, the other one spammer.
15:04:43 kikuchiyo has joined
15:04:43 kikuchiyo has left
15:05:10 bastoon Martin: I'm quite sure spammers will exploit the possibility to infinite subs. Then I don't think you'll ever have to consider multiple (sub) servers per names, one being ok, the other one spammer.
15:05:32 bastoon Martin: I'm quite sure spammers will exploit the possibility of infinite subs. Then I don't think you'll ever have to consider multiple (sub) servers per names, one being ok, the other one spammer.
15:05:34 kikuchiyo has joined
15:05:35 kikuchiyo has left
15:05:50 Martin Spammers usually use unmaintained servers with IBR and do not fire up own servers.
15:07:29 Martin Also there is this case: Befor I was running my xmppd on a shared hoster. If I would not have used my own domain it would have been running at user.tucana.uberspace.de. So if I spam why should the innocent xmppd another-user.tucana.uberspace.de also be blocked?
15:11:06 ajeremias has joined
15:11:50 bastoon Because he could fire you from using his domain before being considered as spammer. Just thought it would be simpler, lighter and more robust against spammer, but surely bad sides to investigate / accommodate.
15:12:24 kikuchiyo has joined
15:12:44 kikuchiyo has left
15:15:57 lorddavidiii has joined
15:16:51 kikuchiyo has joined
15:16:54 kikuchiyo has left
15:18:47 kikuchiyo has joined
15:19:02 kikuchiyo has left
15:19:21 Menel has left
15:19:32 Menel has joined
15:19:57 kikuchiyo has joined
15:20:11 kikuchiyo has left
15:21:45 kikuchiyo has joined
15:22:57 patasca has joined
15:24:52 belove has left
15:25:21 Ivan A. has left
15:25:43 ntuseracc has left
15:25:47 ntuseracc has joined
15:30:19 ntuseracc has left
15:30:21 frog has joined
15:31:06 ntuseracc has joined
15:37:10 patasca has left
15:37:14 patasca has joined
15:38:25 Martin > Because he could fire you from using his domain before being considered as spammer. I don't understand this.
15:40:24 Maranda has left
15:43:26 Beherit has left
15:44:46 Maranda has joined
15:52:08 nickomemo has left
15:53:25 Beherit has joined
15:53:44 86ul has left
15:56:31 stvn has left
16:02:26 patasca has left
16:03:17 arne-bruen has left
16:06:22 kikuchiyo has left
16:06:58 jayteeuk has left
16:06:58 jayteeuk has joined
16:07:54 stvn has joined
16:08:13 86ul has joined
16:08:13 jayteeuk has left
16:08:14 jayteeuk has joined
16:09:23 frog has left
16:09:25 qnix has left
16:11:51 Arne has left
16:12:18 kikuchiyo has joined
16:12:18 kikuchiyo has left
16:13:35 kahlb This list even blacklists creep.im, which is one of the more popular public servers (among the gajim Standard Servers). Not a good Idea I think, it might break xmpp
16:15:48 raucao > it might break xmpp how so? it merely breaks creep.im if they don't get their spam users under control
16:16:07 raucao that's what a federation is for
16:17:00 creep.im creep.im is a known spam server
16:17:40 qnix has joined
16:17:44 raucao :)
16:19:59 Martin kahlb: The issue was that the operator was not reachable on his 0157 contacts. You'll see the history in my MR.
16:20:28 Martin Unfortunately we found him in here just after it got merged.
16:20:52 bastoon > I don't understand this. From your example uberspace.de is still in control to allow/disallow a sub domains (on spam complaining).
16:21:25 patasca has joined
16:22:10 Martin Yes, that's why you should report spammers. But blocking all operators from one domain because one is spamming is not useful.
16:24:07 ernst.on.tour has left
16:24:34 ernst.on.tour has joined
16:24:35 raucao Operators are free to choose
16:28:46 Arne has joined
16:28:47 arne-bruen has joined
16:28:54 Ge0rG let's block all OVH and Hetzner then?
16:30:23 kikuchiyo has joined
16:30:29 kikuchiyo has left
16:32:16 kikuchiyo has joined
16:32:21 kikuchiyo has left
16:32:55 kikuchiyo has joined
16:32:55 kikuchiyo has left
16:33:01 mathieui operators being unreachable while their server is used as a spam relay is a valid reason for inclusion in spam lists
16:33:18 kikuchiyo has joined
16:33:24 kikuchiyo has left
16:33:48 kikuchiyo has joined
16:33:55 kikuchiyo has left
16:33:56 Ge0rG mathieui: how long should one wait to determine "unrechable"?
16:34:11 mathieui Ge0rG, no available means of contact
16:34:21 mathieui if one is available, I guess it’s up to you
16:34:29 kikuchiyo has joined
16:34:29 kikuchiyo has left
16:34:49 raucao > let's block all OVH and Hetzner then? hetzner do actually block your server's network traffic if you spam their local network
16:34:56 kikuchiyo has joined
16:35:00 kikuchiyo has left
16:35:03 Ge0rG raucao: but hetzner isn't using xmpp internally.
16:35:06 raucao comparing someone using a hetzner server to spamming the outside network with the hetzner network itself makes no sense
16:35:22 raucao the xmpp spam server is not a data center
16:35:30 nickomemo has joined
16:35:32 raucao it is a specific service running under a specific domain
16:35:59 Ge0rG raucao: what's your point?
16:36:06 raucao what is yours
16:36:11 raucao your comparison was a non-sequitur
16:36:58 jayteeuk has left
16:36:58 jayteeuk has joined
16:37:12 raucao > operators being unreachable while their server is used as a spam relay is a valid reason for inclusion in spam lists this is the point that some people seem to disagree with, and so far there were no valid arguments against it brought forward here
16:37:37 kikuchiyo has joined
16:37:38 jayteeuk has left
16:37:43 kikuchiyo has left
16:37:52 jayteeuk has joined
16:37:56 qnix has left
16:38:07 qnix has joined
16:38:08 kikuchiyo has joined
16:38:08 kikuchiyo has left
16:38:13 Ge0rG raucao: my response was to the point about blocking all of uberspace if there are spammy servers on there.
16:38:33 Arne do those spammers use some settings?
16:38:33 kikuchiyo has joined
16:38:36 kikuchiyo has left
16:38:50 Arne like a special cipher for prosody
16:38:56 kikuchiyo has joined
16:39:03 kikuchiyo has left
16:39:09 Arne or a deprecated maybe
16:39:33 kikuchiyo has joined
16:39:35 kikuchiyo has left
16:39:41 Arne so we need to change all our settings ;D
16:39:46 Ge0rG Arne: spammers register accounts on free servers.
16:40:14 kikuchiyo has joined
16:40:16 kikuchiyo has left
16:40:57 Ge0rG Ah, it was strato who requested headers as evidence for the spam I reported.
16:41:15 kikuchiyo has joined
16:41:21 kikuchiyo has left
16:41:58 bastoon > let's block all OVH and Hetzner then? OVH automatically forwards whois alias to real mails. I don't get this point. Moreover XEP (if generalized) make the process operator independent.
16:42:00 nickomemo has left
16:42:06 raucao > raucao: my response was to the point about blocking all of uberspace if there are spammy servers on there. sry, i didn't see that someone wanted to block all of uberspace
16:42:27 raucao i thought it was in response to blocking creep.im
16:42:31 raucao mea culpa
16:43:02 Ge0rG bastoon: of the two reports I sent to OVH, one server got shot down, and for the other one I never heard back
16:43:30 nickomemo has joined
16:43:46 antranigv has left
16:43:50 Ge0rG kode.im and im.koderoot.net are the #1 and #2 sources of spam for me for the last weeks.
16:44:08 Ge0rG creep.im is #3. creep.im, wanna have a new list of JIDs to delete?
16:44:56 creep.im shoot it. you have my JID
16:46:21 Arne mh, maybe free inbandregistration is not really good xD
16:46:23 mimi89999 BTW, are SPAM reports verified in any way?
16:46:58 mimi89999 Ge0rG: Did 404 admin respond?
16:47:09 Ge0rG mimi89999: haven't seen them online yet
16:47:28 Ge0rG Arne: yes, you shouldn't do it if you don't want to be a full time anti-spam admin
16:48:20 Arne I use my own webregistration combined with some other things
16:48:24 Ge0rG mimi89999: how would you verify them? I always send logs to the ISP / server admin so they can match against their own logs
16:48:43 antranigv has joined
16:48:50 stvn has left
16:49:55 creep.im I do IBR and I am only removing spam accounts by request
16:50:13 creep.im it's not much work
16:51:11 creep.im although this is meaningless: spammers easily create dozens of new accounts
16:51:14 Ge0rG creep.im: it's only not much work if nobody reports ;)
16:51:16 mimi89999 I used to get spam from creep.im, but I'm not getting anymore
16:51:18 Ge0rG hundreds.
16:51:23 kikuchiyo has joined
16:51:27 kikuchiyo has left
16:52:03 creep.im if you care about your users, the best bet to filter spam at the receiving side
16:52:18 creep.im I told you guys like a million times
16:52:21 nickomemo has left
16:52:35 Ge0rG creep.im: you mean, each user must filter spam on their own?
16:52:35 creep.im but for some reason you are afraid of captcha
16:52:56 creep.im not user. server. there are plugins for that
16:53:03 kikuchiyo has joined
16:53:09 stefan has left
16:53:09 Ge0rG captchas are bad for usability
16:53:41 creep.im you only enter it once
16:53:50 creep.im not a big deal for usability
16:54:19 Ge0rG what if you can't read well?
16:55:28 creep.im you want to create a walled garden without spammers, introducing your custom esoteric registration systems, but his is it different from WhatsApp? it's actually less usable than WhatsApp
16:55:45 creep.im you want to create a walled garden without spammers, introducing your custom esoteric registration systems, but how is it different from WhatsApp? it's actually less usable than WhatsApp
16:55:59 mjk Ge0rG, creep.im: audio captcha is a thing, too
16:56:09 mimi89999 creep.im: So every time I want to contact a new new account I need to fill a captcha?
16:56:12 Ge0rG mjk: but not in the typical xmpp captcha "solutions"
16:56:24 Ge0rG creep.im: my server has IBR and no captchas
16:56:25 creep.im you fight spammers, but spammers don't care. users are hurt instead
16:56:37 Ge0rG same with captchas ;)
16:57:13 mimi89999 Would be better to fill the captcha once.
16:57:20 mimi89999 On registration
16:57:33 creep.im Ge0rG: you have IBR with your custom esoteric filtration system, I heard about it
16:57:33 mjk Ge0rG: > but not in the typical xmpp captcha "solutions" Unfortunately. I was nudging creep.im to think about it :)
16:57:50 creep.im Ge0rG: now open source it and encourage everyone to use it
16:58:15 Ge0rG creep.im: I'm doing RBL checks against dnsbl.dronebl.org with ready-made prosody modules
16:58:30 stvn has joined
16:59:03 creep.im write an article about it, I don't know. a lot of people have no idea how to approach this problem
16:59:23 Ge0rG creep.im: https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/05/12/new-anti-spam-measures/
16:59:35 stefan has joined
17:00:25 Ge0rG oh, spammers are also solving recaptcha to register bot accounts.
17:00:27 Licaon_Kter Ge0rG: > I'm doing RBL checks against dnsbl.dronebl.org with ready-made prosody modules That site is down?
17:00:52 Ge0rG Licaon_Kter: https://dronebl.org/ - the other one is the RBL address
17:01:02 argon3771 has left
17:01:03 argon3771 has joined
17:01:08 Licaon_Kter Oh
17:03:10 creep.im > creep.im: https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/05/12/new-anti-spam-measures/ great job. someone will definitely find that helpful. although not privacy-oriented operators, who want to keep legitimate Proxy/Tor users using the service
17:03:48 stvn has left
17:04:10 Ge0rG creep.im: legitimate Tor users can connect via Tor, join the yaxim support MUC and ask to be unblocked.
17:05:14 creep.im how do you distinguish if the user is legitimate?
17:05:26 Ge0rG creep.im: I don't ask questions.
17:05:32 creep.im also, there may be dozens of such requests
17:05:35 creep.im on a day
17:05:38 raucao why would you in the first place. if they spam, the account gets blocked
17:05:42 raucao tor or not
17:05:50 Ge0rG creep.im: I had a dozen of such requests since I made that policy
17:06:01 Ge0rG creep.im: a spammer will register hundreds or thousands of accounts at the same time
17:06:22 creep.im how many such requests you receive daily?
17:06:52 Ge0rG creep.im: I had a dozen of such requests since I made that policy
17:06:58 Ge0rG that's two per month
17:06:58 jayteeuk has left
17:06:59 jayteeuk has joined
17:07:25 creep.im are there a lot of daily registrations?
17:07:34 qnix has left
17:07:49 creep.im proxied and regular
17:07:50 jayteeuk has left
17:08:01 jayteeuk has joined
17:08:45 Ge0rG 100 - 500 per month
17:09:00 Ge0rG I don't count the proxy registrations, I only count the ones that complain
17:09:19 creep.im that's manageable
17:09:20 qnix has joined
17:09:40 stvn has joined
17:10:39 Ge0rG I also have hundreds of bot registrations sometimes, so it's hard to tell for sure
17:12:17 creep.im anyway, you are coming up with your own solutions to a common problem. there should be a universal ready made way of doing this. like a plugin, or a built-in fictionally right in the server(s). manual process is a no go, especially for one-man server operations
17:13:32 Licaon_Kter creep.im: redo everything on Prosody then, easy :)
17:14:07 Ge0rG creep.im: I've documented my way and made the tools accessible. Somebody else needs to do the same for ejabberd.
17:14:11 creep.im Licaon_Kter: it'll still not be automated
17:14:32 Ge0rG creep.im: spammers will circumvent automated systems
17:15:04 creep.im somehow I didn't get a single spam message in months...
17:15:29 creep.im a lot of accounts add me daily
17:15:40 creep.im I guess miss of them are spammers
17:15:47 abidal3 has joined
17:16:02 Ge0rG I had to solve a captcha before reporting spam to you :P
17:16:17 creep.im yes, this is how it works
17:16:39 creep.im my point is that it is automated and it works
17:16:55 Ge0rG it's automated for you, not for the people who want to talk to you
17:17:08 Ge0rG well, maybe for the spammers who can just buy captchas for 5$/1000
17:17:39 creep.im still, seems like they're not doing that
17:18:07 creep.im I guess they just spam another servers
17:18:15 creep.im I guess they just spam other servers
17:18:20 Ge0rG creep.im: I know that spammers are buying into IBR captchas, because you buy one, and send thousans of spam messages
17:19:47 Beherit has left
17:19:48 Beherit has joined
17:19:58 creep.im IBR captchas... maybe. but to be able to actually send messages, you have to solve another captcha, also you have to be added by the other party as well
17:20:11 creep.im only then you are free to chat
17:21:08 nickomemo has joined
17:21:22 creep.im anyway, this is rather a temporary measure until the real solution will be available
17:21:40 Ge0rG the real solution: people who don't click on spam
17:21:54 creep.im "temporary" could mean for next few years...
17:22:02 kusoneko has left
17:22:04 kusoneko has joined
17:24:15 Licaon_Kter We are well beyond years already
17:25:19 kusoneko has left
17:25:26 kusoneko has joined
17:26:46 lorddavidiii has left
17:28:15 patasca has left
17:28:19 lorddavidiii has joined
17:28:40 patasca has joined
17:34:54 ajeremias has left
17:36:58 jayteeuk has left
17:36:58 jayteeuk has joined
17:37:01 kusoneko has left
17:37:03 kusoneko has joined
17:37:34 kusoneko has left
17:37:45 kusoneko has joined
17:38:00 jayteeuk has left
17:38:01 jayteeuk has joined
17:42:12 kusoneko has left
17:42:14 kusoneko has joined
17:43:45 kusoneko has left
17:43:58 kusoneko has joined
17:44:51 patasca has left
17:44:54 patasca has joined
17:53:40 kusoneko has left
17:53:42 kusoneko has joined
17:54:22 Martin The captcha spam was the reason I could not contact creep.im
17:57:50 Martin I got spammed with requests to fill a captcha and did so several times. Still my messages didn't get through. That was pretty annoying and I had to block him to make his server spam me with captcha requests. That's why I contacted him t
17:58:07 Martin I got spammed with requests to fill a captcha and did so several times. Still my messages didn't get through. That was pretty annoying and I had to block him to make his server spam me with captcha requests. That's why I tried to contact him via email.
17:59:59 patasca has left
18:01:41 creep.im I didn't add you back immediately, that's why you've been "spammed" by captcha
18:02:06 creep.im better to spam sender with captcha, then the other way around, right?
18:04:11 patasca has joined
18:04:22 seantodd has left
18:07:52 patasca has left
18:07:55 patasca has joined
18:10:17 Martin Captchas are just the most annoying UX in spam fighting.
18:10:34 Martin Those block stranger modules break XMPP.
18:15:14 seantodd has joined
18:16:34 belong has left
18:18:30 xi has left
18:18:31 xi has joined
18:19:09 belong has joined
18:20:18 mjk Could the invite-only model be the ultimate solution? If, by chance, a rare spammer is invited and then invites a horde of other spammers, the whole sub-tree of accounts can be efficiently truncated manually
18:21:16 mjk That, of course, requires storing the data on who invited whom
18:21:16 arne-bruen has left
18:21:42 qnix has left
18:22:43 mjk That is, basically, a social graph. A nutritious, concentrated, morsel of user data...
18:22:51 mjk Ugh.
18:24:15 steven has left
18:25:14 belong has left
18:26:07 arne-bruen has joined
18:26:19 stvn has left
18:27:54 stvn has joined
18:30:18 belong has joined
18:34:06 Martin Invitations are nice for family and friends servers but not for public ones.
18:34:15 mehdi has joined
18:36:06 raucao we have closed regs and just started with invitations. but not public yet
18:36:15 raucao in the future we're adding lightning network payments for signups
18:36:36 raucao that way a spammer would have to pay for their account first. that makes it both harder to automate it as well as introduces a cost
18:36:52 raucao i think users inviting other users is generally a good idea
18:38:15 raucao obviously having to donate/pay upfront introduces friction, but then again pretty much any effective anti-spam mesure does
18:38:19 raucao s/mesure/measure
18:38:47 junaid > better to spam sender with captcha, then the other way around, right? creep.im: hence why you dont get many spam complaints. Maybe operators choose to block the domain instead?
18:38:56 raucao i think there are also many other ways to have semi-open signups where it's difficult to create many accounts and also easier to shut spammers down
18:39:49 ntuseracc has left
18:39:52 Martin The RBL approach seems to work well for Ge0rG in reducing spam bots on yax.im.
18:40:39 stvn has left
18:41:00 stvn has joined
18:42:59 mathieui the RBL approach prevents 99.99% of automated IBR registrations
18:43:07 Steven Roose has left
18:44:05 Steven Roose has joined
18:46:42 patasca has left
18:52:00 patasca has joined
18:52:26 bastoon Or use bitcoin approach to discourage spammers: let the user waste cpu power at registration.
18:53:10 bastoon Or use bitcoin approach to discourage spammers: let the user waste cpu power at registration. But indeed spammer will waste *others* cpu for their benefit ;-)
18:54:00 bastoon Or use bitcoin approach to discourage spammers: let the user waste cpu power at registration. But indeed spammers will try to waste your cpu for their benefit ;-)
18:55:24 bastoon Or use bitcoin approach to discourage spammers: let the user waste cpu power at registration.
18:55:29 mjk > But indeed spammers will try to waste your cpu for their benefit ;-) Yeah, botnets are totally immune to proof-of-work-based filtering. Actual payments, though...
18:56:17 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has left
18:56:18 lorddavidiii has left
18:57:42 lorddavidiii has joined
18:57:43 raucao Exactly
19:03:23 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has joined
19:03:43 Beherit has left
19:07:22 vu764hd68fxt has joined
19:10:35 Beherit has joined
19:11:16 frog has joined
19:16:00 qnix has joined
19:16:11 pintosesk has joined
19:19:16 ij has left
19:27:42 patasca has left
19:27:46 patasca has joined
19:30:29 ernst.on.tour has left
19:30:31 ij has joined
19:30:50 ernst.on.tour has joined
19:34:18 openchat has joined
19:34:18 stvn has left
19:36:21 ibikk has left
19:37:57 lorddavidiii has left
19:41:11 jayteeuk has left
19:41:12 jayteeuk has joined
19:42:09 jayteeuk has left
19:42:10 jayteeuk has joined
19:42:52 stvn has joined
19:44:44 mehdi has left
19:48:06 cuc has joined
19:51:44 thndrbvr has left
19:51:47 thndrbvr has joined
19:52:04 patasca has left
19:52:11 patasca has joined
19:55:15 lorddavidiii has joined
19:55:54 patasca has left
19:55:57 patasca has joined
19:56:09 Beherit has left
19:56:11 Beherit has joined
19:56:23 stefan has left
19:57:22 patasca has left
19:57:26 patasca has joined
20:02:23 stvn has left
20:04:39 Kris has left
20:07:21 86ul has left
20:11:58 tom bastoon: that doesnt work because you need to mine a whole block to get a payout
20:16:04 bastoon I'm not talking about Bitcoin directly but proof of work related challenge. So can be adapted to every situation.
20:16:58 Beherit has left
20:17:49 bastoon I was just talking about Bitcoin related principle (rather said proof-of-work). So can be adapted to every situation.
20:19:35 bastoon I was just talking about Bitcoin related principle (rather said proof-of-work). So can be adapted to every situation. Ex challenge: find a hash which verify sha-256(JID + random block) < X With X given by server.
20:20:28 bastoon I was just talking about Bitcoin related principle (rather said proof-of-work). So can be adapted to every situation. Ex challenge: find X which verify sha-256(JID + random X < Y With Y given by server.
20:20:36 bastoon I was just talking about Bitcoin related principle (rather said proof-of-work). So can be adapted to every situation. Ex challenge: find X which verify sha-256(JID + random X) < Y With Y given by server.
20:23:07 stvn has joined
20:25:59 tom bastoon:
20:26:23 tom All this digital methods are not very effective or degrade accessibility in my opinion
20:26:27 tom And even then
20:26:36 tom Well
20:26:56 mehdi has joined
20:27:05 tom It's just a matter of how much of a skid the spammer is
20:27:24 tom Here's a recommendation and I want to give this to the creep.im admin too
20:27:40 perflyst has joined
20:28:30 tom In the old days when we wanted to registered for an account on the shared UNIX system we shelled in (can be a special ssh user like registration@yourdomain.tld) and that user was redirected to a terminal forum program
20:28:30 stvn has left
20:28:41 patasca has left
20:28:46 patasca has joined
20:28:47 tom You entered the username and other detailed you wanted then you were given a code
20:29:15 tom In order to activate your account all you had to do was mail a postcard to the sysadmin with that code written on it
20:29:33 tom You can still anonymously mail letters so this doesn't hurt anonymity
20:29:43 tom And you can mail letters from anywhere in the world
20:29:49 tom Postcards are universal
20:30:14 tom It also gives you an opportunity to build a collage and a better sense of community
20:30:39 tom When you receive the postcard you just type it into your server to lookup the reg details and activate the account
20:31:05 tom If you don't get a poscard in 30 days for a code you purge the reg info
20:31:35 tom Most spammers don't bother when the turing test is in meatspace and costs actual money
20:31:47 Viktor Lindberg has left
20:31:50 tom Not much mind you postage and a postcard are only a few cents even worldwide postage
20:31:53 jayteeuk has left
20:31:53 jayteeuk has joined
20:31:57 jonas’ doesn’t scale though
20:32:04 tom Anybody can afford to send a postcard
20:32:06 jonas’ imagines handling 1k postcards / day
20:32:12 jonas’ or even per week
20:32:13 Ellenor Malik :O
20:32:14 jonas’ or month
20:33:02 jayteeuk has left
20:33:03 jayteeuk has joined
20:33:42 tom jonas’: i doubt that many reges are legit and if your that scale then geeze you would be replacing bigtech and FAANGs
20:33:48 tom But
20:33:51 tom If you were
20:34:07 tom Just replace the postcard with a printable form and buy a SCANTRON machine
20:34:20 tom The same kind of machine they use for standardized tests
20:34:58 jonas’ SCANTRON :D
20:35:46 raucao > bastoon: that doesnt work because you need to mine a whole block to get a payout That's what lightning network is for
20:36:04 raucao Instant cobfirmation, virtually no fee
20:36:10 tom This things scale up to nationwide elections
20:37:04 raucao Extra bonus with LN is that you could block a spammer's LN node, too
20:37:09 stvn has joined
20:37:35 pintosesk has left
20:38:08 tom https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=scantron&_sacat=0
20:39:10 Beherit has joined
20:39:15 stpeter has joined
20:40:19 steven has joined
20:40:37 patasca has left
20:40:40 patasca has joined
20:40:55 tom jonas’: you really get over 1k legit reges a day?
20:42:32 stvn has left
20:42:53 stvn has joined
20:44:08 Jonny has left
20:46:29 Jonny has joined
20:47:41 Viktor Lindberg has joined
20:47:41 jonas’ has left
20:48:30 jonas’ has joined
20:48:46 jonas’ tom, no, I don’t run a public server
20:52:00 joerg has left
20:52:01 joerg has joined
20:56:14 Arne has left
20:56:14 arne-bruen has left
20:56:37 Arne has joined
20:56:37 arne-bruen has joined
20:57:36 nickomemo has left
21:00:22 Lily has left
21:01:43 Kris has joined
21:03:17 Lily has joined
21:03:25 ibikk has joined
21:04:14 kusoneko has left
21:05:20 stpeter has left
21:09:01 stvn has left
21:11:45 serge90 has left
21:11:46 serge90 has joined
21:14:41 stpeter has joined
21:18:15 raghavgururajan has left
21:19:59 jayteeuk has left
21:19:59 jayteeuk has joined
21:21:03 jayteeuk has left
21:21:03 jayteeuk has joined
21:21:49 ernst.on.tour has left
21:22:31 ernst.on.tour has joined
21:23:18 stvn has joined
21:25:58 raghavgururajan has joined
21:30:37 patasca has left
21:32:36 stvn has left
21:34:19 kusoneko has joined
21:34:39 openchat has left
21:36:41 ibikk has left
21:37:06 jayteeuk has left
21:37:06 jayteeuk has joined
21:44:06 stvn has joined
21:47:21 ij has left
21:47:24 ij has joined
21:49:57 joerg has left
21:49:58 joerg has joined
21:51:47 openchat has joined
21:54:58 pintosesk has joined
22:02:17 pod has left
22:03:59 cuc has left
22:13:01 lorddavidiii has left
22:13:53 David has left
22:13:54 David has joined
22:14:07 lorddavidiii has joined
22:20:29 ajeremias has joined
22:22:38 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has left
22:23:00 j.r (jugendhacker.de) has joined
22:24:34 lorddavidiii has left
22:26:01 lorddavidiii has joined
22:26:04 loopboom has joined
22:29:53 frog has left
22:31:54 raghavgururajan has left
22:37:37 kikuchiyo has left
22:41:51 Huxx has left
22:42:25 Jonny has left
22:44:20 ij has left
22:44:27 ij has joined
22:46:02 stvn has left
22:46:23 steven has left
22:47:09 sol has left
22:47:18 loopboom has left
22:51:52 argon3771 has left
22:51:53 argon3771 has joined
22:52:31 pod has joined
22:52:52 kikuchiyo has joined
22:53:55 Menel has left
22:56:51 ajeremias has left
22:57:03 patasca has joined
22:58:33 lorddavidiii has left
23:03:01 lorddavidiii has joined
23:03:54 perflyst has left
23:06:58 jayteeuk has left
23:06:59 jayteeuk has joined
23:07:47 patasca has left
23:07:50 patasca has joined
23:07:57 jayteeuk has left
23:07:57 jayteeuk has joined
23:09:52 pod has left
23:10:34 Douglas Terabyte has left
23:16:11 sol has joined
23:17:37 patasca has left
23:17:39 patasca has joined
23:18:55 lorddavidiii has left
23:19:16 openchat has left
23:19:17 openchat has joined
23:23:51 raghavgururajan has joined
23:26:53 openchat has left
23:28:56 mjk has left
23:31:12 Licaon_Kter has left
23:35:45 mjk has joined
23:36:02 raghavgururajan has left
23:36:38 stvn has joined
23:39:16 Douglas Terabyte has joined
23:52:24 Bjarkan has left
23:53:15 patasca has left
23:53:18 patasca has joined
23:56:17 Bjarkan has joined