My question was serious and connected to what was being discussed
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tom
theadmiralty: never
tom
You can run your own server however you like
tom
There's no central server for an authoritarian force to take down or impose upon
tom
There are multiple open source freedom software server and client softwares to choose from
tom
Developed by both individuals and companies
tom
The specifications are open and documented for anyone who wants to can code up their own software
Licaon_Kter
I always thought that Signal could have moved the ecosystem if it chose to.
They chose silos so Daniel came along and did that.
Licaon_Kter
Now, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yeso a password thing might be nice.✎
Licaon_Kter
Now, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yes a password thing might be nice. ✏
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theadmiralty
tom: thank you
tom
Signal is fake privacy
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tom
It literally requires you to open a Google account to get the app
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tom
It updates itself, meaning some company can change the software on your device at any time
tom
It's centralized to one company-controlled server
tom
Google is probably the worst company there is when it comes to privacy and unique identifers
tom
They are a freaking targeted advertising company
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theadmiralty
I am always afraid of what is going to happen next
theadmiralty
Too much unstability
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argon3771
You can download the signal apk from their website with no google account and just sideload it.
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Alex
argon3771: any stats on how many people do that vs using the play store?
argon3771
Personally I have no idea. I just know that's how I get it because I run a degoogled phone.
Alex
Do all your contacts?
Alex
Just curious how hard it would be for Google to figure out who I'm talking to on signal even if I sideload
Alex
Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers?
argon3771
Nope. Huge majority of my contacts are on iOS.
argon3771
I prefer xmpp, but I do use signal too
Alex
Just depends on your threat model
Alex
No perfect solutions, everything has trade-offs
Alex
At least in the chat space
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theadmiralty
> Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers?
I think that they say no. They collect "very little" but if fist comes to face they will have no choice
theadmiralty
USA more like ccp in way it work s
theadmiralty
Not complete... Getting close
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tom
Are you willing to read a manual and put some effort into something theadmiralty?
tom
If so you may just want to host your own xmpp server instead of using someone else's
theadmiralty
Yes
tom
Host your own xmpp on your own server
tom
If your in the US and you have a home server, you cannot be compelled to disclose anything because of the fifth amendment, and considering you secure your server properly they'd have to break and enter into your home to access it
tom
You'd also be able to implement whatever features you want, and host your family and friends
tom
And have good latency
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tom
Your home is protected by the third amendment
tom
Also the fourth
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Arne
Hi, does anyone use a whatsapp xmpp bridge?
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raucao
whatsapp bridge? how does that work?
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tom
Secret alien technology
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Arne
https://git.theta.eu.org/eta/whatsxmpp
Arne
But I think I won't implement this
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tom
Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png
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Arne
😅
neox
Lol
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jayteeuk
> Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png
Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.
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junaid
Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster.
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raucao
> is that still the view?
yes, very much so
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raucao
moxie prioritizes UX over everything else basically. a valid thing to do, but the way he regularly publicly promotes the idea that federation/decentralization is plain impossible to get right irks me a lot
raucao
you can find talks about the topic by him that are more recent
tom
He markets himself as a privacy friendly option when it literally requires going through googl
tom
And stores things on a central server
tom
And can change the software running on people's devices at any time via 'automatic update'
tom
Moxie is a scumbag if anything
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jayteeuk
> Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster.
Yes, of course. I'm thinking of it from the opposite perspective, I suppose: there are people who are looking to replace a platform controlled by a single company with a dodgy track record. They're looking for replacements that align with their values. So knowing the values of the people behind the alternatives, from verifiable sources, is important.
jayteeuk
Specifically:
“Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?”
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raucao
telegram isn't e2e by default, so that's definitely the scummiest option
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tom
» jayteeuk> Specifically:
» “Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?”
AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year
tom
I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools
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Arne
> I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools
+1
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neox
+1 too
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jayteeuk
Couldn't agree more.
jayteeuk
> AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year
Exactly. Hence running my own server.
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theadmiralty
> Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.
Disgusting
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kahlb
> Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.
https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37
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jayteeuk
> Disgusting
I'm sorry, I don't follow.
jayteeuk
> https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37
Perfect, thank you. That's a very interesting (and depressing) read.
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raucao
> I'd estimate that all told, we lost about 6 months to a year of progress. It's something we'll probably never do again,
LOL, what's 1 year when your goal is a sustainable product. pretty much nothing (except for moxie it's likely a couple million dollars of san francisco salaries)