XMPP Service Operators - 2021-01-09

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  31. theadmiralty

    How long until xmpp need a pin code like signal

  32. theadmiralty

    Or becomes illegal

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  39. Licaon_Kter

    theadmiralty: pls no offtopic

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  41. theadmiralty

    My question was serious and connected to what was being discussed

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  53. tom

    theadmiralty: never

  54. tom

    You can run your own server however you like

  55. tom

    There's no central server for an authoritarian force to take down or impose upon

  56. tom

    There are multiple open source freedom software server and client softwares to choose from

  57. tom

    Developed by both individuals and companies

  58. tom

    The specifications are open and documented for anyone who wants to can code up their own software

  59. Licaon_Kter

    I always thought that Signal could have moved the ecosystem if it chose to. They chose silos so Daniel came along and did that.

  60. Licaon_Kter

    Now, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yeso a password thing might be nice.

  61. Licaon_Kter

    Now, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yes a password thing might be nice.

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  65. theadmiralty

    tom: thank you

  66. tom

    Signal is fake privacy

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  68. tom

    It literally requires you to open a Google account to get the app

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  70. tom

    It updates itself, meaning some company can change the software on your device at any time

  71. tom

    It's centralized to one company-controlled server

  72. tom

    Google is probably the worst company there is when it comes to privacy and unique identifers

  73. tom

    They are a freaking targeted advertising company

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  75. theadmiralty

    I am always afraid of what is going to happen next

  76. theadmiralty

    Too much unstability

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  79. argon3771

    You can download the signal apk from their website with no google account and just sideload it.

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  102. Alex

    argon3771: any stats on how many people do that vs using the play store?

  103. argon3771

    Personally I have no idea. I just know that's how I get it because I run a degoogled phone.

  104. Alex

    Do all your contacts?

  105. Alex

    Just curious how hard it would be for Google to figure out who I'm talking to on signal even if I sideload

  106. Alex

    Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers?

  107. argon3771

    Nope. Huge majority of my contacts are on iOS.

  108. argon3771

    I prefer xmpp, but I do use signal too

  109. Alex

    Just depends on your threat model

  110. Alex

    No perfect solutions, everything has trade-offs

  111. Alex

    At least in the chat space

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  132. theadmiralty

    > Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers? I think that they say no. They collect "very little" but if fist comes to face they will have no choice

  133. theadmiralty

    USA more like ccp in way it work s

  134. theadmiralty

    Not complete... Getting close

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  139. tom

    Are you willing to read a manual and put some effort into something theadmiralty?

  140. tom

    If so you may just want to host your own xmpp server instead of using someone else's

  141. theadmiralty


  142. tom

    Host your own xmpp on your own server

  143. tom

    If your in the US and you have a home server, you cannot be compelled to disclose anything because of the fifth amendment, and considering you secure your server properly they'd have to break and enter into your home to access it

  144. tom

    You'd also be able to implement whatever features you want, and host your family and friends

  145. tom

    And have good latency

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  148. tom

    Your home is protected by the third amendment

  149. tom

    Also the fourth

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  235. Arne

    Hi, does anyone use a whatsapp xmpp bridge?

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  256. raucao

    whatsapp bridge? how does that work?

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  264. tom

    Secret alien technology

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  287. Arne


  288. Arne

    But I think I won't implement this

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  292. tom

    Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png

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  303. Arne


  304. neox


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  325. jayteeuk

    > Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.

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  329. junaid

    Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster.

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  334. raucao

    > is that still the view? yes, very much so

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  337. raucao

    moxie prioritizes UX over everything else basically. a valid thing to do, but the way he regularly publicly promotes the idea that federation/decentralization is plain impossible to get right irks me a lot

  338. raucao

    you can find talks about the topic by him that are more recent

  339. tom

    He markets himself as a privacy friendly option when it literally requires going through googl

  340. tom

    And stores things on a central server

  341. tom

    And can change the software running on people's devices at any time via 'automatic update'

  342. tom

    Moxie is a scumbag if anything

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  347. jayteeuk

    > Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster. Yes, of course. I'm thinking of it from the opposite perspective, I suppose: there are people who are looking to replace a platform controlled by a single company with a dodgy track record. They're looking for replacements that align with their values. So knowing the values of the people behind the alternatives, from verifiable sources, is important.

  348. jayteeuk

    Specifically: “Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?”

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  352. raucao

    telegram isn't e2e by default, so that's definitely the scummiest option

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  369. tom

    » jayteeuk> Specifically: » “Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?” AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year

  370. tom

    I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools

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  373. Arne

    > I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools +1

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  379. neox

    +1 too

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  393. jayteeuk

    Couldn't agree more.

  394. jayteeuk

    > AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year Exactly. Hence running my own server.

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  514. theadmiralty

    > Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions. Disgusting

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  542. kahlb

    > Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions. https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37

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  599. jayteeuk

    > Disgusting I'm sorry, I don't follow.

  600. jayteeuk

    > https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37 Perfect, thank you. That's a very interesting (and depressing) read.

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  625. raucao

    > I'd estimate that all told, we lost about 6 months to a year of progress. It's something we'll probably never do again, LOL, what's 1 year when your goal is a sustainable product. pretty much nothing (except for moxie it's likely a couple million dollars of san francisco salaries)

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