XMPP Service Operators - 2021-01-09


  1. derventio has joined
  2. qnix has joined
  3. jayteeuk has left
  4. jayteeuk has joined
  5. seantodd has left
  6. perflyst has left
  7. argon3771 has left
  8. argon3771 has joined
  9. Roi has left
  10. Roi has joined
  11. mjk has left
  12. Suren has joined
  13. jayteeuk has left
  14. jayteeuk has joined
  15. madmalkav has left
  16. christian has left
  17. christian has joined
  18. christian has left
  19. thndrbvr has joined
  20. SouL has left
  21. mjk has joined
  22. derventio has left
  23. thndrbvr has left
  24. thndrbvr has joined
  25. pod has left
  26. Kris has left
  27. Roi has left
  28. Roi has joined
  29. Huxx has left
  30. Pingu from Woodquarter has left
  31. theadmiralty How long until xmpp need a pin code like signal
  32. theadmiralty Or becomes illegal
  33. argon3771 has left
  34. argon3771 has joined
  35. mss_cyclist has left
  36. mss_cyclist has joined
  37. argon3771 has left
  38. argon3771 has joined
  39. Licaon_Kter theadmiralty: pls no offtopic
  40. Suren has left
  41. theadmiralty My question was serious and connected to what was being discussed
  42. Jonny has left
  43. Roi has left
  44. Roi has joined
  45. j.r (jugendhacker.de) has left
  46. j.r (jugendhacker.de) has joined
  47. sonny has left
  48. sonny has joined
  49. gav has left
  50. ajeremias has joined
  51. jayteeuk has left
  52. jayteeuk has joined
  53. tom theadmiralty: never
  54. tom You can run your own server however you like
  55. tom There's no central server for an authoritarian force to take down or impose upon
  56. tom There are multiple open source freedom software server and client softwares to choose from
  57. tom Developed by both individuals and companies
  58. tom The specifications are open and documented for anyone who wants to can code up their own software
  59. Licaon_Kter I always thought that Signal could have moved the ecosystem if it chose to. They chose silos so Daniel came along and did that.
  60. Licaon_Kter Now, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yeso a password thing might be nice.
  61. Licaon_Kter Now, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yes a password thing might be nice.
  62. jayteeuk has left
  63. jayteeuk has joined
  64. Licaon_Kter has left
  65. theadmiralty tom: thank you
  66. tom Signal is fake privacy
  67. sonny has left
  68. tom It literally requires you to open a Google account to get the app
  69. sonny has joined
  70. tom It updates itself, meaning some company can change the software on your device at any time
  71. tom It's centralized to one company-controlled server
  72. tom Google is probably the worst company there is when it comes to privacy and unique identifers
  73. tom They are a freaking targeted advertising company
  74. ajeremias has left
  75. theadmiralty I am always afraid of what is going to happen next
  76. theadmiralty Too much unstability
  77. Jonny has joined
  78. qnix has left
  79. argon3771 You can download the signal apk from their website with no google account and just sideload it.
  80. qnix has joined
  81. Jonny has left
  82. qnix has left
  83. sonny has left
  84. wladmis has joined
  85. sonny has joined
  86. SouL has joined
  87. sonny has left
  88. sonny has joined
  89. qnix has joined
  90. jayteeuk has left
  91. jayteeuk has joined
  92. sonny has left
  93. sonny has joined
  94. seantodd has joined
  95. sonny has left
  96. sonny has joined
  97. jayteeuk has left
  98. jayteeuk has joined
  99. jayteeuk has left
  100. jayteeuk has joined
  101. wladmis has left
  102. Alex argon3771: any stats on how many people do that vs using the play store?
  103. argon3771 Personally I have no idea. I just know that's how I get it because I run a degoogled phone.
  104. Alex Do all your contacts?
  105. Alex Just curious how hard it would be for Google to figure out who I'm talking to on signal even if I sideload
  106. Alex Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers?
  107. argon3771 Nope. Huge majority of my contacts are on iOS.
  108. argon3771 I prefer xmpp, but I do use signal too
  109. Alex Just depends on your threat model
  110. Alex No perfect solutions, everything has trade-offs
  111. Alex At least in the chat space
  112. Viktor Lindberg has left
  113. jayteeuk has left
  114. jayteeuk has joined
  115. Viktor Lindberg has joined
  116. cuc has left
  117. gnu has joined
  118. Suren has joined
  119. qnix has left
  120. qnix has joined
  121. cuc has joined
  122. Jonny has joined
  123. wladmis has joined
  124. SouL has left
  125. thndrbvr has left
  126. jayteeuk has left
  127. jayteeuk has joined
  128. Jonny has left
  129. belong has left
  130. sonny has left
  131. sonny has joined
  132. theadmiralty > Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers? I think that they say no. They collect "very little" but if fist comes to face they will have no choice
  133. theadmiralty USA more like ccp in way it work s
  134. theadmiralty Not complete... Getting close
  135. belong has joined
  136. Pingu from Woodquarter has joined
  137. jayteeuk has left
  138. jayteeuk has joined
  139. tom Are you willing to read a manual and put some effort into something theadmiralty?
  140. tom If so you may just want to host your own xmpp server instead of using someone else's
  141. theadmiralty Yes
  142. tom Host your own xmpp on your own server
  143. tom If your in the US and you have a home server, you cannot be compelled to disclose anything because of the fifth amendment, and considering you secure your server properly they'd have to break and enter into your home to access it
  144. tom You'd also be able to implement whatever features you want, and host your family and friends
  145. tom And have good latency
  146. Jonny has joined
  147. mjk has left
  148. tom Your home is protected by the third amendment
  149. tom Also the fourth
  150. mjk has joined
  151. thndrbvr has joined
  152. Jonny has left
  153. madmalkav has joined
  154. jayteeuk has left
  155. jayteeuk has joined
  156. ff255 has joined
  157. thndrbvr has left
  158. thndrbvr has joined
  159. SouL has joined
  160. Suren has left
  161. Jonny has joined
  162. Suren has joined
  163. cuc has left
  164. madmalkav has left
  165. jayteeuk has left
  166. jayteeuk has joined
  167. jayteeuk has left
  168. jayteeuk has joined
  169. pod has joined
  170. cuc has joined
  171. ibikk has joined
  172. Jonny has left
  173. Jonny has joined
  174. thndrbvr has left
  175. jayteeuk has left
  176. jayteeuk has joined
  177. mss_cyclist has left
  178. mjk has left
  179. mss_cyclist has joined
  180. jayteeuk has left
  181. jayteeuk has joined
  182. mjk has joined
  183. alex-a-soto has left
  184. alex-a-soto has joined
  185. Ivan A. has left
  186. lorddavidiii has joined
  187. Ivan A. has joined
  188. Jonny has left
  189. jayteeuk has left
  190. jayteeuk has joined
  191. Jonny has joined
  192. 86ul has joined
  193. argon3771 has left
  194. argon3771 has joined
  195. raucao has left
  196. raucao has joined
  197. sonny has left
  198. sonny has joined
  199. mjk has left
  200. Jonny has left
  201. Jonny has joined
  202. mjk has joined
  203. Douglas Terabyte has left
  204. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  205. sonny has left
  206. sonny has joined
  207. Jonny has left
  208. abidal3 has joined
  209. abidal3 has left
  210. Jonny has joined
  211. abidal3 has joined
  212. ff255 has left
  213. Bjarkan has left
  214. madmalkav has joined
  215. Beherit has left
  216. Beherit has joined
  217. j.r (jugendhacker.de) has left
  218. Axel has joined
  219. Bjarkan has joined
  220. thndrbvr has joined
  221. sonny has left
  222. sonny has joined
  223. neox has joined
  224. Jonny has left
  225. Jonny has joined
  226. Huxx has joined
  227. abidal3 has left
  228. ntuseracc has joined
  229. Jonny has left
  230. Jonny has joined
  231. Licaon_Kter has joined
  232. jayteeuk has left
  233. jayteeuk has joined
  234. Arne has joined
  235. Arne Hi, does anyone use a whatsapp xmpp bridge?
  236. ntuseracc has left
  237. Jonny has left
  238. thndrbvr has left
  239. Beherit has left
  240. Beherit has joined
  241. Jonny has joined
  242. cuc has left
  243. ff255 has joined
  244. alberto has joined
  245. abidal3 has joined
  246. thndrbvr has joined
  247. jayteeuk has left
  248. jayteeuk has joined
  249. thndrbvr has left
  250. thndrbvr has joined
  251. lorddavidiii has left
  252. jayteeuk has left
  253. jayteeuk has joined
  254. Martin has left
  255. Martin has joined
  256. raucao whatsapp bridge? how does that work?
  257. perflyst has joined
  258. xi has left
  259. xi has joined
  260. christian has joined
  261. jayteeuk has left
  262. jayteeuk has joined
  263. j.r (jugendhacker.de) has joined
  264. tom Secret alien technology
  265. alberto has left
  266. lorddavidiii has joined
  267. Jonny has left
  268. sonny has left
  269. sonny has joined
  270. Jonny has joined
  271. cuc has joined
  272. alberto has joined
  273. vu764hd68fxt has joined
  274. Ivan A. has left
  275. Ivan A. has joined
  276. jayteeuk has left
  277. jayteeuk has joined
  278. sonny has left
  279. sonny has joined
  280. Jonny has left
  281. Jonny has joined
  282. alex-a-soto has left
  283. alex-a-soto has joined
  284. Axel has left
  285. jayteeuk has left
  286. jayteeuk has joined
  287. Arne https://git.theta.eu.org/eta/whatsxmpp
  288. Arne But I think I won't implement this
  289. ajeremias has joined
  290. ernst.on.tour has left
  291. ernst.on.tour has joined
  292. tom Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png
  293. wladmis has left
  294. jayteeuk has left
  295. jayteeuk has joined
  296. qnix has left
  297. qnix has joined
  298. jayteeuk has left
  299. jayteeuk has joined
  300. ff255 has left
  301. perflyst has left
  302. perflyst has joined
  303. Arne ๐Ÿ˜…
  304. neox Lol
  305. perflyst has left
  306. perflyst has joined
  307. Jonny has left
  308. Jonny has joined
  309. Jonny has left
  310. ff255 has joined
  311. undefined has left
  312. undefined has joined
  313. ernst.on.tour has left
  314. frog has joined
  315. ernst.on.tour has joined
  316. perflyst has left
  317. qnix has left
  318. qnix has joined
  319. Ivan A. has left
  320. ajeremias has left
  321. qnix has left
  322. Viktor Lindberg has left
  323. Viktor Lindberg has joined
  324. lorddavidiii has left
  325. jayteeuk > Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago โ€” is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.
  326. jayteeuk has left
  327. jayteeuk has joined
  328. Ivan A. has joined
  329. junaid Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster.
  330. wladmis has joined
  331. qnix has joined
  332. sonny has left
  333. sonny has joined
  334. raucao > is that still the view? yes, very much so
  335. ernst.on.tour has left
  336. ernst.on.tour has joined
  337. raucao moxie prioritizes UX over everything else basically. a valid thing to do, but the way he regularly publicly promotes the idea that federation/decentralization is plain impossible to get right irks me a lot
  338. raucao you can find talks about the topic by him that are more recent
  339. tom He markets himself as a privacy friendly option when it literally requires going through googl
  340. tom And stores things on a central server
  341. tom And can change the software running on people's devices at any time via 'automatic update'
  342. tom Moxie is a scumbag if anything
  343. tom has left
  344. sol has left
  345. tom has joined
  346. frog has left
  347. jayteeuk > Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster. Yes, of course. I'm thinking of it from the opposite perspective, I suppose: there are people who are looking to replace a platform controlled by a single company with a dodgy track record. They're looking for replacements that align with their values. So knowing the values of the people behind the alternatives, from verifiable sources, is important.
  348. jayteeuk Specifically: โ€œWho runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?โ€
  349. tom has left
  350. Viktor Lindberg has left
  351. Viktor Lindberg has joined
  352. raucao telegram isn't e2e by default, so that's definitely the scummiest option
  353. David has left
  354. David has joined
  355. tom has joined
  356. alberto has left
  357. Ivan A. has left
  358. Ivan A. has joined
  359. ernst.on.tour has left
  360. ernst.on.tour has joined
  361. lorddavidiii has joined
  362. wladmis has left
  363. wladmis has joined
  364. qnix has left
  365. Jonny has joined
  366. qnix has joined
  367. Jonny has left
  368. alberto has joined
  369. tom ยป jayteeuk> Specifically: ยป โ€œWho runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?โ€ AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year
  370. tom I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools
  371. alex-a-soto has left
  372. alex-a-soto has joined
  373. Arne > I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools +1
  374. Douglas Terabyte has left
  375. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  376. qnix has left
  377. Viktor Lindberg has left
  378. qnix has joined
  379. neox +1 too
  380. Jonny has joined
  381. ntuseracc has joined
  382. tom has left
  383. sol has joined
  384. ajeremias has joined
  385. Jonny has left
  386. Jonny has joined
  387. SouL has left
  388. SouL has joined
  389. Holly Lotor has left
  390. SouL has left
  391. Jonny has left
  392. SouL has joined
  393. jayteeuk Couldn't agree more.
  394. jayteeuk > AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year Exactly. Hence running my own server.
  395. ajeremias has left
  396. qnix has left
  397. Jonny has joined
  398. qnix has joined
  399. neox has left
  400. neox has joined
  401. ntuseracc has left
  402. cuc has left
  403. ajeremias has joined
  404. jayteeuk has left
  405. jayteeuk has joined
  406. neox has left
  407. neox has joined
  408. Jonny has left
  409. gav has joined
  410. Jonny has joined
  411. qnix has left
  412. Kris has joined
  413. qnix has joined
  414. Jonny has left
  415. neox has left
  416. qnix has left
  417. Jonny has joined
  418. qnix has joined
  419. Huxx has left
  420. Huxx has joined
  421. Jonny has left
  422. Jonny has joined
  423. jayteeuk has left
  424. jayteeuk has joined
  425. qnix has left
  426. qnix has joined
  427. neox has joined
  428. ajeremias has left
  429. jayteeuk has left
  430. jayteeuk has joined
  431. jayteeuk has left
  432. jayteeuk has joined
  433. millesimus has left
  434. neox has left
  435. neox has joined
  436. lorddavidiii has left
  437. neox has left
  438. alacer has left
  439. alacer has joined
  440. x51 has joined
  441. x51 has left
  442. x51 has joined
  443. x51 has left
  444. jayteeuk has left
  445. frog has joined
  446. neox has joined
  447. jayteeuk has joined
  448. mss_cyclist has left
  449. mss_cyclist has joined
  450. x51 has joined
  451. x51 has left
  452. 86ul has left
  453. lorddavidiii has joined
  454. kahlb has left
  455. qnix has left
  456. jayteeuk has left
  457. jayteeuk has joined
  458. 86ul has joined
  459. kahlb has joined
  460. jayteeuk has left
  461. jayteeuk has joined
  462. 86ul has left
  463. derventio has joined
  464. qnix has joined
  465. kikuchiyo has left
  466. 404.city has joined
  467. alex-a-soto has left
  468. jayteeuk has left
  469. jayteeuk has joined
  470. alex-a-soto has joined
  471. 404.city has left
  472. 404.city has joined
  473. 86ul has joined
  474. frog has left
  475. j.r (jugendhacker.de) has left
  476. j.r (jugendhacker.de) has joined
  477. jayteeuk has left
  478. jayteeuk has joined
  479. belong has left
  480. belong has joined
  481. frog has joined
  482. 404.city has left
  483. 404.city has joined
  484. 86ul has left
  485. argon3771 has left
  486. 86ul has joined
  487. argon3771 has joined
  488. jayteeuk has left
  489. jayteeuk has joined
  490. cuc has joined
  491. jayteeuk has left
  492. jayteeuk has joined
  493. 86ul has left
  494. jayteeuk has left
  495. jayteeuk has joined
  496. lorddavidiii has left
  497. madmalkav has left
  498. madmalkav has joined
  499. 86ul has joined
  500. lorddavidiii has joined
  501. jayteeuk has left
  502. jayteeuk has joined
  503. Bakunin has joined
  504. Bakunin has left
  505. frog has left
  506. derventio has left
  507. 404.city has left
  508. qnix has left
  509. gnu has left
  510. qnix has joined
  511. 404.city has joined
  512. sol has left
  513. sol has joined
  514. theadmiralty > Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago โ€” is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions. Disgusting
  515. inky has left
  516. inky has joined
  517. jayteeuk has left
  518. jayteeuk has joined
  519. Pingu from Woodquarter has left
  520. Pingu from Woodquarter has joined
  521. cuc has left
  522. argon3771 has left
  523. argon3771 has joined
  524. cuc has joined
  525. perflyst has joined
  526. jayteeuk has left
  527. jayteeuk has joined
  528. theadmiralty has left
  529. theadmiralty has joined
  530. 404.city has left
  531. wladmis has left
  532. Jonny has left
  533. 404.city has joined
  534. Jonny has joined
  535. Lily has left
  536. lorddavidiii has left
  537. Jonny has left
  538. Lily has joined
  539. sol has left
  540. sol has joined
  541. Jonny has joined
  542. kahlb > Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago โ€” is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions. https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37
  543. Holly Lotor has joined
  544. 404.city has left
  545. lorddavidiii has joined
  546. ff255 has left
  547. abidal3 has left
  548. Jonny has left
  549. Jonny has joined
  550. sol has left
  551. inky has left
  552. Jonny has left
  553. lorddavidiii has left
  554. Tim has left
  555. Jonny has joined
  556. 404.city has joined
  557. 404.city has left
  558. jayteeuk has left
  559. jayteeuk has joined
  560. Viktor Lindberg has joined
  561. abidal3 has joined
  562. kikuchiyo has joined
  563. lorddavidiii has joined
  564. ajeremias has joined
  565. perflyst has left
  566. perflyst has joined
  567. jayteeuk has left
  568. jayteeuk has joined
  569. jayteeuk has left
  570. jayteeuk has joined
  571. jayteeuk has left
  572. jayteeuk has joined
  573. neox has left
  574. jayteeuk has left
  575. jayteeuk has joined
  576. derventio has joined
  577. jayteeuk has left
  578. jayteeuk has joined
  579. perflyst has left
  580. perflyst has joined
  581. Jonny has left
  582. Jonny has joined
  583. Viktor Lindberg has left
  584. Viktor Lindberg has joined
  585. ibikk has left
  586. derventio has left
  587. jayteeuk has left
  588. jayteeuk has joined
  589. jayteeuk has left
  590. jayteeuk has joined
  591. ajeremias has left
  592. perflyst has left
  593. perflyst has joined
  594. lorddavidiii has left
  595. mjk has left
  596. ff255 has joined
  597. tom has joined
  598. mjk has joined
  599. jayteeuk > Disgusting I'm sorry, I don't follow.
  600. jayteeuk > https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37 Perfect, thank you. That's a very interesting (and depressing) read.
  601. jayteeuk has left
  602. jayteeuk has joined
  603. jayteeuk has left
  604. jayteeuk has joined
  605. Viktor Lindberg has left
  606. Viktor Lindberg has joined
  607. j.r (jugendhacker.de) has left
  608. j.r (jugendhacker.de) has joined
  609. frog has joined
  610. cuc has left
  611. argon3771 has left
  612. argon3771 has joined
  613. raghavgururajan has left
  614. 86ul has left
  615. 86ul has joined
  616. ff255 has left
  617. ff255 has joined
  618. sol has joined
  619. frog has left
  620. belong has left
  621. perflyst has left
  622. perflyst has joined
  623. belong has joined
  624. Tim has joined
  625. raucao > I'd estimate that all told, we lost about 6 months to a year of progress. It's something we'll probably never do again, LOL, what's 1 year when your goal is a sustainable product. pretty much nothing (except for moxie it's likely a couple million dollars of san francisco salaries)
  626. raghavgururajan has joined
  627. perflyst has left
  628. perflyst has joined
  629. perflyst has left
  630. perflyst has joined
  631. madmalkav has left
  632. jayteeuk has left
  633. jayteeuk has joined
  634. perflyst has left
  635. alberto has left
  636. mjk has left