XMPP Service Operators - 2021-01-09

How long until xmpp need a pin code like signal

Or becomes illegal

theadmiralty: pls no offtopic

My question was serious and connected to what was being discussed

theadmiralty: never

You can run your own server however you like

There's no central server for an authoritarian force to take down or impose upon

There are multiple open source freedom software server and client softwares to choose from

Developed by both individuals and companies

The specifications are open and documented for anyone who wants to can code up their own software

I always thought that Signal could have moved the ecosystem if it chose to. They chose silos so Daniel came along and did that.

Now, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yes a password thing might be nice. ✏

tom: thank you

Signal is fake privacy

It literally requires you to open a Google account to get the app

It updates itself, meaning some company can change the software on your device at any time

It's centralized to one company-controlled server

Google is probably the worst company there is when it comes to privacy and unique identifers

They are a freaking targeted advertising company

I am always afraid of what is going to happen next

Too much unstability

You can download the signal apk from their website with no google account and just sideload it.

argon3771: any stats on how many people do that vs using the play store?

Personally I have no idea. I just know that's how I get it because I run a degoogled phone.

Do all your contacts?

Just curious how hard it would be for Google to figure out who I'm talking to on signal even if I sideload

Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers?

Nope. Huge majority of my contacts are on iOS.

I prefer xmpp, but I do use signal too

Just depends on your threat model

No perfect solutions, everything has trade-offs

At least in the chat space

> Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers? I think that they say no. They collect "very little" but if fist comes to face they will have no choice

USA more like ccp in way it work s

Not complete... Getting close

Are you willing to read a manual and put some effort into something theadmiralty?

If so you may just want to host your own xmpp server instead of using someone else's

Yes

Host your own xmpp on your own server

If your in the US and you have a home server, you cannot be compelled to disclose anything because of the fifth amendment, and considering you secure your server properly they'd have to break and enter into your home to access it

You'd also be able to implement whatever features you want, and host your family and friends

And have good latency

Your home is protected by the third amendment

Also the fourth

Hi, does anyone use a whatsapp xmpp bridge?

whatsapp bridge? how does that work?

Secret alien technology

https://git.theta.eu.org/eta/whatsxmpp

But I think I won't implement this

Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png

😅

Lol

> Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.

Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster.

> is that still the view? yes, very much so

moxie prioritizes UX over everything else basically. a valid thing to do, but the way he regularly publicly promotes the idea that federation/decentralization is plain impossible to get right irks me a lot

you can find talks about the topic by him that are more recent

He markets himself as a privacy friendly option when it literally requires going through googl

And stores things on a central server

And can change the software running on people's devices at any time via 'automatic update'

Moxie is a scumbag if anything

> Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster. Yes, of course. I'm thinking of it from the opposite perspective, I suppose: there are people who are looking to replace a platform controlled by a single company with a dodgy track record. They're looking for replacements that align with their values. So knowing the values of the people behind the alternatives, from verifiable sources, is important.

Specifically: “Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?”

telegram isn't e2e by default, so that's definitely the scummiest option

» jayteeuk> Specifically: » “Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?” AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year

I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools

> I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools +1

+1 too

Couldn't agree more.

> AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year Exactly. Hence running my own server.

> Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions. Disgusting

> Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions. https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37

> Disgusting I'm sorry, I don't follow.

> https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37 Perfect, thank you. That's a very interesting (and depressing) read.

> I'd estimate that all told, we lost about 6 months to a year of progress. It's something we'll probably never do again, LOL, what's 1 year when your goal is a sustainable product. pretty much nothing (except for moxie it's likely a couple million dollars of san francisco salaries)