XMPP Service Operators

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01:19:38 theadmiralty How long until xmpp need a pin code like signal
01:20:19 theadmiralty Or becomes illegal
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01:43:51 Licaon_Kter theadmiralty: pls no offtopic
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01:45:18 theadmiralty My question was serious and connected to what was being discussed
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02:14:35 tom theadmiralty: never
02:14:44 tom You can run your own server however you like
02:15:04 tom There's no central server for an authoritarian force to take down or impose upon
02:15:44 tom There are multiple open source freedom software server and client softwares to choose from
02:15:52 tom Developed by both individuals and companies
02:16:10 tom The specifications are open and documented for anyone who wants to can code up their own software
02:18:38 Licaon_Kter I always thought that Signal could have moved the ecosystem if it chose to. They chose silos so Daniel came along and did that.
02:19:12 Licaon_Kter Now, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yeso a password thing might be nice.
02:19:18 Licaon_Kter Now, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yes a password thing might be nice.
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02:31:50 theadmiralty tom: thank you
02:32:34 tom Signal is fake privacy
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02:32:50 tom It literally requires you to open a Google account to get the app
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02:33:05 tom It updates itself, meaning some company can change the software on your device at any time
02:33:19 tom It's centralized to one company-controlled server
02:33:44 tom Google is probably the worst company there is when it comes to privacy and unique identifers
02:33:55 tom They are a freaking targeted advertising company
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02:34:19 theadmiralty I am always afraid of what is going to happen next
02:36:21 theadmiralty Too much unstability
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02:41:52 argon3771 You can download the signal apk from their website with no google account and just sideload it.
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03:53:33 Alex argon3771: any stats on how many people do that vs using the play store?
03:54:26 argon3771 Personally I have no idea. I just know that's how I get it because I run a degoogled phone.
03:54:50 Alex Do all your contacts?
03:55:40 Alex Just curious how hard it would be for Google to figure out who I'm talking to on signal even if I sideload
03:56:29 Alex Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers?
03:56:30 argon3771 Nope. Huge majority of my contacts are on iOS.
03:57:16 argon3771 I prefer xmpp, but I do use signal too
04:00:54 Alex Just depends on your threat model
04:01:31 Alex No perfect solutions, everything has trade-offs
04:01:38 Alex At least in the chat space
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04:47:43 theadmiralty > Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers? I think that they say no. They collect "very little" but if fist comes to face they will have no choice
04:48:18 theadmiralty USA more like ccp in way it work s
04:48:52 theadmiralty Not complete... Getting close
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05:04:50 tom Are you willing to read a manual and put some effort into something theadmiralty?
05:05:07 tom If so you may just want to host your own xmpp server instead of using someone else's
05:05:13 theadmiralty Yes
05:05:18 tom Host your own xmpp on your own server
05:08:10 tom If your in the US and you have a home server, you cannot be compelled to disclose anything because of the fifth amendment, and considering you secure your server properly they'd have to break and enter into your home to access it
05:08:36 tom You'd also be able to implement whatever features you want, and host your family and friends
05:08:44 tom And have good latency
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05:11:04 tom Your home is protected by the third amendment
05:11:45 tom Also the fourth
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09:11:37 Arne Hi, does anyone use a whatsapp xmpp bridge?
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09:44:52 raucao whatsapp bridge? how does that work?
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10:04:29 tom Secret alien technology
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11:01:12 Arne https://git.theta.eu.org/eta/whatsxmpp
11:01:31 Arne But I think I won't implement this
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11:07:27 tom Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png
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11:22:18 Arne 😅
11:22:24 neox Lol
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12:06:45 jayteeuk > Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.
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12:10:11 junaid Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster.
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12:13:20 raucao > is that still the view? yes, very much so
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12:15:44 raucao moxie prioritizes UX over everything else basically. a valid thing to do, but the way he regularly publicly promotes the idea that federation/decentralization is plain impossible to get right irks me a lot
12:16:18 raucao you can find talks about the topic by him that are more recent
12:16:29 tom He markets himself as a privacy friendly option when it literally requires going through googl
12:16:45 tom And stores things on a central server
12:17:05 tom And can change the software running on people's devices at any time via 'automatic update'
12:17:33 tom Moxie is a scumbag if anything
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12:18:34 jayteeuk > Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster. Yes, of course. I'm thinking of it from the opposite perspective, I suppose: there are people who are looking to replace a platform controlled by a single company with a dodgy track record. They're looking for replacements that align with their values. So knowing the values of the people behind the alternatives, from verifiable sources, is important.
12:20:07 jayteeuk Specifically: “Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?”
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12:22:28 raucao telegram isn't e2e by default, so that's definitely the scummiest option
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12:51:09 tom » jayteeuk> Specifically: » “Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?” AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year
12:52:03 tom I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools
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13:06:22 Arne > I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools +1
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13:11:47 neox +1 too
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13:52:43 jayteeuk Couldn't agree more.
13:53:12 jayteeuk > AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year Exactly. Hence running my own server.
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18:56:02 theadmiralty > Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions. Disgusting
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20:18:32 kahlb > Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions. https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37
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22:36:18 jayteeuk > Disgusting I'm sorry, I don't follow.
22:36:57 jayteeuk > https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37 Perfect, thank you. That's a very interesting (and depressing) read.
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23:26:31 raucao > I'd estimate that all told, we lost about 6 months to a year of progress. It's something we'll probably never do again, LOL, what's 1 year when your goal is a sustainable product. pretty much nothing (except for moxie it's likely a couple million dollars of san francisco salaries)
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