theadmiraltyHow long until xmpp need a pin code like signal
theadmiraltyOr becomes illegal
argon3771has left
argon3771has joined
mss_cyclisthas left
mss_cyclisthas joined
argon3771has left
argon3771has joined
Licaon_Ktertheadmiralty: pls no offtopic
Surenhas left
theadmiraltyMy question was serious and connected to what was being discussed
Jonnyhas left
Roihas left
Roihas joined
j.r (jugendhacker.de)has left
j.r (jugendhacker.de)has joined
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
gavhas left
ajeremiashas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
tomtheadmiralty: never
tomYou can run your own server however you like
tomThere's no central server for an authoritarian force to take down or impose upon
tomThere are multiple open source freedom software server and client softwares to choose from
tomDeveloped by both individuals and companies
tomThe specifications are open and documented for anyone who wants to can code up their own software
Licaon_KterI always thought that Signal could have moved the ecosystem if it chose to.
They chose silos so Daniel came along and did that.
Licaon_KterNow, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yeso a password thing might be nice.
Licaon_KterNow, if such a feature (encrypted contacts on server) will appear then maybe yes a password thing might be nice.
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
Licaon_Kterhas left
theadmiraltytom: thank you
tomSignal is fake privacy
sonnyhas left
tomIt literally requires you to open a Google account to get the app
sonnyhas joined
tomIt updates itself, meaning some company can change the software on your device at any time
tomIt's centralized to one company-controlled server
tomGoogle is probably the worst company there is when it comes to privacy and unique identifers
tomThey are a freaking targeted advertising company
ajeremiashas left
theadmiraltyI am always afraid of what is going to happen next
theadmiraltyToo much unstability
Jonnyhas joined
qnixhas left
argon3771You can download the signal apk from their website with no google account and just sideload it.
qnixhas joined
Jonnyhas left
qnixhas left
sonnyhas left
wladmishas joined
sonnyhas joined
SouLhas joined
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
qnixhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
seantoddhas joined
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
wladmishas left
Alexargon3771: any stats on how many people do that vs using the play store?
argon3771Personally I have no idea. I just know that's how I get it because I run a degoogled phone.
AlexDo all your contacts?
AlexJust curious how hard it would be for Google to figure out who I'm talking to on signal even if I sideload
AlexAlso does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers?
argon3771Nope. Huge majority of my contacts are on iOS.
argon3771I prefer xmpp, but I do use signal too
AlexJust depends on your threat model
AlexNo perfect solutions, everything has trade-offs
AlexAt least in the chat space
Viktor Lindberghas left
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
Viktor Lindberghas joined
cuchas left
gnuhas joined
Surenhas joined
qnixhas left
qnixhas joined
cuchas joined
Jonnyhas joined
wladmishas joined
SouLhas left
thndrbvrhas left
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
Jonnyhas left
belonghas left
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
theadmiralty> Also does signal disclose law enforcement requests for information from their metadata servers?
I think that they say no. They collect "very little" but if fist comes to face they will have no choice
theadmiraltyUSA more like ccp in way it work s
theadmiraltyNot complete... Getting close
belonghas joined
Pingu from Woodquarterhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
tomAre you willing to read a manual and put some effort into something theadmiralty?
tomIf so you may just want to host your own xmpp server instead of using someone else's
theadmiraltyYes
tomHost your own xmpp on your own server
tomIf your in the US and you have a home server, you cannot be compelled to disclose anything because of the fifth amendment, and considering you secure your server properly they'd have to break and enter into your home to access it
tomYou'd also be able to implement whatever features you want, and host your family and friends
jayteeuk> Signal everybody https://upload.nuegia.net/cc09a8bb-bdd9-4e67-91fb-b2c1be46f22d/Screenshot_20210107-125656_Tor%20Browser.png
Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
Ivan A.has joined
junaidLook, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster.
wladmishas joined
qnixhas joined
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
raucao> is that still the view?
yes, very much so
ernst.on.tourhas left
ernst.on.tourhas joined
raucaomoxie prioritizes UX over everything else basically. a valid thing to do, but the way he regularly publicly promotes the idea that federation/decentralization is plain impossible to get right irks me a lot
raucaoyou can find talks about the topic by him that are more recent
tomHe markets himself as a privacy friendly option when it literally requires going through googl
tomAnd stores things on a central server
tomAnd can change the software running on people's devices at any time via 'automatic update'
tomMoxie is a scumbag if anything
tomhas left
solhas left
tomhas joined
froghas left
jayteeuk> Look, signal has different objectives to xmpp and i'm fine with that. Look at anything, smaller teams are more agile and can innovate faster.
Yes, of course. I'm thinking of it from the opposite perspective, I suppose: there are people who are looking to replace a platform controlled by a single company with a dodgy track record. They're looking for replacements that align with their values. So knowing the values of the people behind the alternatives, from verifiable sources, is important.
jayteeukSpecifically:
“Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?”
tomhas left
Viktor Lindberghas left
Viktor Lindberghas joined
raucaotelegram isn't e2e by default, so that's definitely the scummiest option
Davidhas left
Davidhas joined
tomhas joined
albertohas left
Ivan A.has left
Ivan A.has joined
ernst.on.tourhas left
ernst.on.tourhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
qnixhas left
Jonnyhas joined
qnixhas joined
Jonnyhas left
albertohas joined
tom
» jayteeuk> Specifically:
» “Who runs telegram and signal, am I just jumping from one shitstorm to another?”
AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year
tomI'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools
alex-a-sotohas left
alex-a-sotohas joined
Arne> I'm really sick of all these corporations taking from the XMPP pot and never giving anything back. All trying to build """platforms""" rather than further technology or build actual tools
+1
Douglas Terabytehas left
Douglas Terabytehas joined
qnixhas left
Viktor Lindberghas left
qnixhas joined
neox+1 too
Jonnyhas joined
ntuseracchas joined
tomhas left
solhas joined
ajeremiashas joined
Jonnyhas left
Jonnyhas joined
SouLhas left
SouLhas joined
Holly Lotorhas left
SouLhas left
Jonnyhas left
SouLhas joined
jayteeukCouldn't agree more.
jayteeuk> AOL, MSN, Yahoo, .........current year
Exactly. Hence running my own server.
ajeremiashas left
qnixhas left
Jonnyhas joined
qnixhas joined
neoxhas left
neoxhas joined
ntuseracchas left
cuchas left
ajeremiashas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
neoxhas left
neoxhas joined
Jonnyhas left
gavhas joined
Jonnyhas joined
qnixhas left
Krishas joined
qnixhas joined
Jonnyhas left
neoxhas left
qnixhas left
Jonnyhas joined
qnixhas joined
Huxxhas left
Huxxhas joined
Jonnyhas left
Jonnyhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
qnixhas left
qnixhas joined
neoxhas joined
ajeremiashas left
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
millesimushas left
neoxhas left
neoxhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
neoxhas left
alacerhas left
alacerhas joined
x51has joined
x51has left
x51has joined
x51has left
jayteeukhas left
froghas joined
neoxhas joined
jayteeukhas joined
mss_cyclisthas left
mss_cyclisthas joined
x51has joined
x51has left
86ulhas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
kahlbhas left
qnixhas left
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
86ulhas joined
kahlbhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
86ulhas left
derventiohas joined
qnixhas joined
kikuchiyohas left
404.cityhas joined
alex-a-sotohas left
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
alex-a-sotohas joined
404.cityhas left
404.cityhas joined
86ulhas joined
froghas left
j.r (jugendhacker.de)has left
j.r (jugendhacker.de)has joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
belonghas left
belonghas joined
froghas joined
404.cityhas left
404.cityhas joined
86ulhas left
argon3771has left
86ulhas joined
argon3771has joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
cuchas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
86ulhas left
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
madmalkavhas left
madmalkavhas joined
86ulhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
Bakuninhas joined
Bakuninhas left
froghas left
derventiohas left
404.cityhas left
qnixhas left
gnuhas left
qnixhas joined
404.cityhas joined
solhas left
solhas joined
theadmiralty> Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.
Disgusting
inkyhas left
inkyhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
Pingu from Woodquarterhas left
Pingu from Woodquarterhas joined
cuchas left
argon3771has left
argon3771has joined
cuchas joined
perflysthas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
theadmiraltyhas left
theadmiraltyhas joined
404.cityhas left
wladmishas left
Jonnyhas left
404.cityhas joined
Jonnyhas joined
Lilyhas left
lorddavidiiihas left
Jonnyhas left
Lilyhas joined
solhas left
solhas joined
Jonnyhas joined
kahlb> Do you have a source for that? Also, that's nearly five years ago — is that still the view? I've no interest in defending the position, but if I'm quoting it, people are going to ask questions.
https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37
Holly Lotorhas joined
404.cityhas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
ff255has left
abidal3has left
Jonnyhas left
Jonnyhas joined
solhas left
inkyhas left
Jonnyhas left
lorddavidiiihas left
Timhas left
Jonnyhas joined
404.cityhas joined
404.cityhas left
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
Viktor Lindberghas joined
abidal3has joined
kikuchiyohas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
ajeremiashas joined
perflysthas left
perflysthas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
neoxhas left
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
derventiohas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
perflysthas left
perflysthas joined
Jonnyhas left
Jonnyhas joined
Viktor Lindberghas left
Viktor Lindberghas joined
ibikkhas left
derventiohas left
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
ajeremiashas left
perflysthas left
perflysthas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
mjkhas left
ff255has joined
tomhas joined
mjkhas joined
jayteeuk> Disgusting
I'm sorry, I don't follow.
jayteeuk> https://github.com/libresignal/libresignal/issues/37
Perfect, thank you. That's a very interesting (and depressing) read.
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
jayteeukhas left
jayteeukhas joined
Viktor Lindberghas left
Viktor Lindberghas joined
j.r (jugendhacker.de)has left
j.r (jugendhacker.de)has joined
froghas joined
cuchas left
argon3771has left
argon3771has joined
raghavgururajanhas left
86ulhas left
86ulhas joined
ff255has left
ff255has joined
solhas joined
froghas left
belonghas left
perflysthas left
perflysthas joined
belonghas joined
Timhas joined
raucao> I'd estimate that all told, we lost about 6 months to a year of progress. It's something we'll probably never do again,
LOL, what's 1 year when your goal is a sustainable product. pretty much nothing (except for moxie it's likely a couple million dollars of san francisco salaries)