XMPP Service Operators - 2021-01-11

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  14. argon3771 So I think I'll make the jump over to prosody from ejabberd for the pi. Thanks for all the advice everyone.
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  87. Licaon_Kter argon3771: because?
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  106. MattJ Because it's better!
  107. MattJ What a silly question :P
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  109. Licaon_Kter MattJ: right, my bad :)
  110. Licaon_Kter MattJ: Does Prosody first cache uploaded files in memory?
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  115. MattJ Yes, in the current release
  116. MattJ That's why we have default limits that everyone just overrides
  117. MattJ Next version will dump straight to file, and obviously there is upload_external for all versions which bypasses the issue entirely
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  121. Licaon_Kter Nice
  122. Licaon_Kter Back in 2018 ejabberd was doing the same, but a quick zinid fix and my 256Mb Pi1 suddendly become usable.
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  124. tom Idk
  125. tom I just don't think mod_upload was a good idea
  126. tom Like
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  128. tom If your going to do it, do it right or don't do it at all
  129. tom Use mod_upload_external
  130. tom Drop mod_upload
  131. Arne +1
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  133. MattJ Yeah, it's annoying that we are working to develop a good XMPP server, and suddenly the scope creeps to include developing a good HTTP server as well
  134. MattJ I mean, there are whole other projects dedicated to doing that
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  136. MattJ Erlang may have an advantage in that regard, I imagine ejabberd is using a ready-made HTTP server implementation
  137. Arne will this change with prosody 12 maybe?
  138. MattJ https://blog.prosody.im/2020-retrospective/ - see the section about the HTTP server :)
  139. tom The spike in popularity is suspect
  140. tom I wonder why
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  143. MattJ As written just below the graph, I suspect Jitsi Meet installations - at the time there was a lot of hype about the project, lockdowns and Zoom privacy issues every week
  144. MattJ A bunch of places wrote "how to set up your own Jitsi Meet" guides and such
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  146. Licaon_Kter MattJ: > Yeah, it's annoying that we are working to develop a good XMPP server, and suddenly the scope creeps to include developing a good HTTP server as well Spoke as zinid did :)) tom: But there's some elegance in having one daemon do to them all, ejabberd still is OOTB ready to serve, no DB, no webserver, no stun/turn needed besides.
  147. tom Jack of all master of none
  148. tom Plus
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  151. tom There is a finite resource, developer attention
  152. MattJ Licaon_Kter, apart from STUN/TURN, Prosody is the same
  153. MattJ I'm not sure the world needs another TURN server implementation, especially in Lua just because :)
  154. MattJ Because you know, we'd have to find a name for it
  155. Licaon_Kter tom: > Jack of all master of none I'd beg to differ, did you test? > There is a finite resource, developer attention True
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  157. tom Yes
  158. tom Prosody makes a terrible webserver compared to nginx and a small perl cgi
  159. tom By the way MattJ, since those jitsi servers are using prosody apparently, is there any interaction that can be had with my xmpp client and prosody server?
  160. tom I tried running disco on meet.jit.si, nothing
  161. Licaon_Kter MattJ: eturnal is taken, sorry `prosturner` ?
  162. Licaon_Kter tom: the devs don't support it
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  165. Licaon_Kter tom: > Yes > Prosody makes a terrible webserver compared to nginx and a small perl cgi I meant ejabberd :)
  166. MattJ tom, most are configured for anonymous authentication and support MUC
  167. MattJ Most normal clients don't do anonymous auth though
  168. tom Course they don't (╯ರ ~ ರ)╯︵ ┻━┻
  169. tom They just take
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  200. tom When your setting up onion S2S connections with someone, and it works but your server rejects because of Server-to-server connection failed: Encrypted server-to-server communication is required but was not offered<
  201. tom Shouldn't mod_onions or mod_darknet auto-consider .onion servers secure?
  202. tom Or is there a way to mark all incoming s2s connections on the loopback interface secure?
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  247. tom creep.im: increase the XML stanza size limit, it's causing federation problems
  248. tom » Jan 11 03:47:42 s2sout55bd8df13370 info Session closed by remote with error: policy-violation (XML stanza is too big) » Jan 11 03:47:42 s2sout55bd8df13370 info Outgoing s2s stream conference.nuegia.net->creep.im closed: policy-violation (XML stanza is too big)
  249. Licaon_Kter creep.im: it's lower than https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/ejabberd.yml.example#L40 ?
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  252. Ge0rG what kind of monster stanza are you sending?
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  254. creep.im it's 65536
  255. creep.im it's 131072
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  260. creep.im I've just increased limits both did S2C and S2S (used ejabberd example linked above)
  261. creep.im I've just increased limits both for S2C and S2S (used ejabberd example linked above)
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  263. tom Ge0rG: i don't know which stanza triggered it. But sometimes users post news articles in my mucs
  264. tom And use omemo
  265. Ge0rG is room.pix-art.de down for me or for everyone?
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  267. Martin Ge0rG: > Establishing a secure connection from mdosch.de to room.pix-art.de failed. Certificate hash: 4cd531a9524513d90ff042873b929fb4104c5dbb5d58d9c22a9d23b4639ad634. This certificate is invalid for room.pix-art.de.
  268. Ge0rG Martin: thanks
  269. Ge0rG also works here again; maybe a short network downtime.
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  271. tom Would there be any compat issues with my switching to a ECC certificate?
  272. tom Rather than an RSA4096
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  284. Licaon_Kter tom: ask 404.city :)
  285. Holger We tested this by accident on c.im the other day. Answer is yes :-)
  286. 404.city tom, There are no serious problems
  287. Martin Holger: Did s2s to all cert checking servers break or "only" to some?
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  292. 404.city tom, There may be problems connecting to spam-scrapyards and abandoned servers
  293. Licaon_Kter 404.city: were the issues between you and yax.im fixed?
  294. Licaon_Kter 404.city: were the issues between yours and yax.im fixed?
  295. Holger Martin: Only some.
  296. Martin Ok, thanks.
  297. Holger 404.city: There can also be problems connecting to maintained servers.
  298. Holger Cipher negotiation fails more easily.
  299. 404.city >Licaon_Kter‎: 404.city: were the issues between yours and yax.im fixed? Yes
  300. Holger If people decide to use the latest-greatest-strictest TLS setup and are fine with the fact that this can break legitimate communication between users that's obviously fine with me. But please don't pretend that this *won't* break communication. Debugging the resulting breakage can be annoying.
  301. 404.city I think in the future ECC will be adopted as the main encryption standard and RSA will be deprecated. Nowadays, this can already be considered an RSA outdated standard. The more servers with ECC there will be, the more problems RSA servers will have. Now RSA is just the majority, but in the future ECC will be the default.
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  304. Holger If we're talking about some point of time in the future you may be right. I thought this was about the implications of switching to an ECC certificate today.
  305. tom I thought RSA certs were already switching to ECC
  306. tom considered deprecated
  307. tom at least, the BIG CAs are moving their root certs to ECC
  308. tom Holger: which servers broke when you switched to ecc cert?
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  310. 404.city Many people think that self-signed certificates should be used instead of RSA. They also require compatibility. Let's hold on to the past, we'll be behind those who go into the future
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  313. Holger 404.city: As I said I'm all happy with you going as far into the future as you like. But the question was whether or not this will introduce interop issues. Your answer was 'no', and the correct answer is 'yes'. That's all.
  314. Holger tom: You're asking me for domain names?
  315. tom y
  316. Holger Why?
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  318. tom because i want to know which servers will break if i switch to ecc
  319. Holger Ah I'm of no help then. We only had that setup for 2-3 hours because until two of my contacts notified me of borked s2s, both of whom just run small personal servers.
  320. Holger s/because//
  321. 404.city Holger, Okay, but I don't agree that there are interoperability issues. In this case, self-signed certificates and servers without encryption should also be considered communication problems.
  322. Licaon_Kter Holger: how did that end up in the setup?
  323. Holger 404.city: Are we now discussing the definition of "interop issues" or what? I'm not wasting my time on this nonsense.
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  326. Holger 404.city: And yes enforcing TLS obviously breaks interop with non-TLS servers. It's just that the fraction of servers not supporting TLS is tiny. So the trade-off is very different. Security-related questions are basically always decisions on trade-offs, not binary all-or-nothing decisions.
  327. Holger Licaon_Kter: We are a huge site with lots of employees plus lots of automation which all needs coordination and in this case things went wrong.
  328. Holger 😂
  329. Licaon_Kter Holger: humans? Pfft, they are the worst
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  331. Licaon_Kter Holger: humans? Pfft, they are the ~worst~wurst :)
  332. Ge0rG Licaon_Kter: Schtrudelwurst?
  333. Licaon_Kter It's a spectrum
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  340. 404.city i have more problems with signed certificates than switching to ECC. It is worth noting that it was a long time ago, and now all these problematic servers (self-signet sertificat) have been adjusted now to the zeitgeist.
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  342. 404.city Holger, Do not worry. I am not discussing a technical issue, I am a philosophical one. Naturally there is a mistake, how loud they are is already a philosophical question. In your case, errors are is critical, not to accept ECC but to use RSA.
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  352. Holger > more problems with signed certificates You mean you disabled dialback, so that you insist on a valid certificate, and you're annoyed by servers who still don't offer a CA-signed cert?
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  362. 404.city Holger, Well, how can I tell you ... My friend was hacked through a self-signed certificate when I was young and used xmpp.jp He also used xmpp.jp with self signed certificates. c2s trusted <+> s2s (dialback) <+> c2s (not trusted) = not trusted
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  464. 404.city tom, by the way, this is not the case when you have to ask. You can release two ECC + RSA at once by few minute. Certificates can be changed without rebooting. See what you like best)
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  472. 86ul Offtopic I think, but just wondering: can I use my 404.city account also on Matrix, 404.city ?
  473. 404.city 86ul, On 404.city there is no active Matrix server. Its launch is not planned due to excessive resource consumption within the Matrix network. This is chat not the right place for such conversations. We could get banned for this chatter.
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  475. 86ul Thanks anyways
  476. 404.city 86ul, I will write in private
  477. 86ul Okay
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  490. Martin Ge0rG: Is chat.yax.im down?
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  494. Arne maybe they have a blackout like me an hour ago 😅
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  519. e2e.ee Martin: the yax.im chatroom is up for me.
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  521. Martin I could leave and rejoin just now. 😃
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