XMPP Service Operators - 2021-01-14


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  81. 404.city Arne, Do you understand the basic principles of browsers? If the browser has downloaded the script once, on any site it does not download the script a second time. Have you ever wondered how this can significantly speed up page loading? Ie the page is loaded on a slow connection not 2-3 minutes, but a couple of seconds?
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  83. 404.city Arne, Did you know that cloudflare provides open source scripts for sites and oh yeah! They have built-in protection? << integrity="sha384-vFJXuSJphROIrBnz7yo7oB41mKfc8JzQZiCq4NCceLEaO4IHwicKwpJf9c9IpFgh" crossorigin="anonymous" >>
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  89. 404.city <script src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/twitter-bootstrap/4.5.3/js/bootstrap.min.js" integrity="sha512-8qmis31OQi6hIRgvkht0s6mCOittjMa9GMqtK9hes5iEQBQE/Ca6yGE5FsW36vyipGoWQswBj/QBm2JR086Rkw==" crossorigin="anonymous"></script>
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  93. 404.city Arni Bro, what a horror. I have embedded this script in this chat, NOW REPTILIAN KNOW EVERETING ABOUT YOU!!! Didn't it boot? RIGHT!!! It should not be loaded in the browser either, but should be from the cache of your browser
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  99. 404.city Arne, If you have Twitter loaded in scripts, I recommend checking your plugin for blocking scripts for viruses. The share button on Twitter was made, without javascript scripts and load images. But you probably just don’t know the difference between "Twitter Bootstrap" and "Twitter"
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  109. tom » <404.city> Arne, Do you understand the basic principles of browsers? If the browser has downloaded the script once, on any site it does not download the script a second time. Have you ever wondered how this can significantly speed up page loading? » Ie the page is loaded on a slow connection not 2-3 minutes, but a couple of seconds? It's not
  110. tom It's actually slower
  111. tom The HTTP protocol itself has headers for caching and how log
  112. tom You should not use javascript at all, unless you absolutely have to and there's no other way
  113. tom If you care about performance and accessability
  114. tom The html has to finish loading before you can even begin to startup the jvm
  115. tom Vs
  116. tom Html being streamed in as it receives a element closure
  117. tom Then images loading
  118. tom (jpegs can be encoded to support progressive scan)
  119. tom Or you can use SVGs
  120. tom If you use an external CDN you lose control over latency for your site
  121. tom Even if you use a geographiclly close CDN, it's going to be slower because now you have to setup 2 TCP sessions sequentially, with TLS on top
  122. tom Vs if you just used plain html
  123. tom Serving things yourself on your own server
  124. tom https://anybrowser.org/campaign/
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  128. 404.city https://xmpp.404.city:5280/usershare/6d33720a4a94189f7b96d206ee5f6128196decf2/asa4zw5TzuiMiNRGdhD02PawBoPMwPe4Yp2mtzPa/Screenshot_from_2021-01-14_04-38-07.png
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  130. 404.city tom, Thanks for the helpful advice ... There is a hint in chrome, for those who do not understand the headers, that the content is cached. In this screenshot you can find this place. In this screenshot you can find this place. На этом скриншоте вы можете найти это место. On this screenshot you can find this place. На этом скриншоте вы можете найти это место.
  131. 404.city tom, Thanks for the helpful advice ... There is a hint in chrome, for those who do not understand the headers, that the content is cached. In this screenshot you can find this place. In this screenshot you can find this place.
  132. tom Oh
  133. tom You can use webbrowser
  134. tom It provides much better HTTP debugging tools
  135. tom Hold on
  136. 404.city tom, This is a screenshot from the browser
  137. tom https://upload.nuegia.net/2c79b375-8912-4663-9668-589525c08eb3/screenshot_016.png
  138. tom Also
  139. tom Chrome's caching is very buggy
  140. tom Like
  141. tom Things don't refresh when you press refresh or tell it not to cache
  142. tom It's also not a really good litmus test for web interop
  143. tom Since the blink engine is more optimized for running google's webapps rather than viewing web pages efficiently
  144. christian 404.city: You never need the whole bootstrap. Usually you only need "util.JS". Or one or two more. And even if you don't need the whole bootstrap CSS, it's a development mistake to ping cloudflare every time from every connected IP, and it's definitely a mistake to download half a mega every time you send 2 letters in a chat. If you're too lazy to pick what you need and would rather do one hell of a traffic, stop developing for god's sake.
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  147. tom https://upload.nuegia.net/3ae80218-17e4-4568-b269-0c8e6f3837a2/screenshot_017.png
  148. tom I'd argue that using bootstrap is a terrible mistake
  149. 404.city tom, Pay attention to the title on your screenshot. The "last modification"
  150. tom Just write the data in the HTML
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  152. tom Then write a few CSS rules to add borders and good contrast and set a front
  153. tom Then your done
  154. 404.city christian, Where do you see the chat on this page?
  155. tom https://www.nuegia.net/style.css
  156. 404.city > ‎tom‎: Just write the data in the HTML This is not just a date, if you were a web application developer, then you would know that this header needs to be set manually and it is responsible for caching
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  158. tom 404.city: nginx has a very powerful syntax for setting caching headers
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  160. tom Set a ttl
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  162. tom Or a date
  163. tom Keep static objects in sane paths, then just apply caching rules that make sense for the path
  164. tom There's two main kinds of caching in http
  165. tom The kind where you tell the browser to keep the resource, and the kind you tell the browser to keep the resource but check back if it's been modified
  166. christian 404.city: Don't worry, if I criticise you, you are valuable. I don't criticise everyone.
  167. tom It's the difference between a http 301 and no http request at all
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  169. tom For example on my CDN that handles the http-upload XEP I set location / { perl upload::handle; expires modified +60d; add_header Cache-Control private; }
  170. tom Since I delete files 60 days after they've been uploaded
  171. tom And it's a static resource prepended with a guid so it's not going to change
  172. tom Oh, btw there's an interesting cache control parameter "IMMUTABLE" which is intended for content-addressable object stores
  173. tom Like IPFS
  174. 404.city From your paronial advice and unrepeatable fears, the Internet works slower and this is very noticeable for Internet users with slow connections. It doesn't increase privacy and security in any way, it looks like a cargo cult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
  175. tom I've been thinking about integrating IPFS into my cdn so that if users are still interested in files after to 60d purge than it's still accessible, and I can just use ipfs daemon's built in garbage collector instead of a time based thing
  176. 404.city https://xmpp.404.city:5280/usershare/6d33720a4a94189f7b96d206ee5f6128196decf2/9RMjzCeLITZGf0JqfBUIWbRqU0lIe8xWOnpn0avL/download__12_.jpeg
  177. tom 404.city: the only cargo-culting going on is the people who ADD javascript to their site, thinking it will make it faster
  178. tom You don't add to websites to make them faster you remove
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  180. tom And you leverage fine control of HTTP's headers
  181. tom The web developers that can't code html and css themselves, and have to import some """framework"""
  182. tom Or use wordpress and install a bunch of ""optimization plugins""
  183. 404.city tom, The saddest thing is that you mislead other people who understand it even less. I gave you a screenshot from the browser that proved it was cached, but you continue to prove that it is not. This explanation was signed by the developers in the browser especially for you.
  184. 404.city tom, https://xmpp.404.city:5280/usershare/6d33720a4a94189f7b96d206ee5f6128196decf2/asa4zw5TzuiMiNRGdhD02PawBoPMwPe4Yp2mtzPa/Screenshot_from_2021-01-14_04-38-07.png
  185. tom 404.city: you misunderstand
  186. tom I'm saying you shouldn't rely on Jquery at all
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  189. tom That you should remove to dependence of jquery from you site
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  193. 404.city https://xmpp.404.city:5280/usershare/6d33720a4a94189f7b96d206ee5f6128196decf2/Z1M1x2QJzNDgB72CYbgZ0wiCVr53SOvAUTybbfJg/bootstrap.png
  194. tom Gross
  195. tom And not privacy conscious
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  197. 404.city tom, You have already downloaded this file on other sites, and after that you worry.
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  199. tom No i haven;t
  200. tom I disable javashit
  201. tom I don't browse sites that only work in firefox/chrome
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  203. tom Or require excessive resources
  204. tom 2gb of ram to display a paragraph on text on a screen
  205. tom It's inexcusable
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  208. tom Ability to get into a fucking botnet, just by visiting a web page
  209. 404.city tom, Well, let's just say so. Sites shouldn't have javascript at all...
  210. tom Popups, ads, cookie notices
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  212. tom For example
  213. tom Use invidious or straw-viewer to access youtube without javashit or modern web retardation
  214. tom https://upload.nuegia.net/03cfe502-2bd1-4fdb-abe6-871f97e907f1/web-color.png
  215. tom https://upload.nuegia.net/b02e658d-5504-484d-8e00-5526702c3654/noajax.png
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  217. tom Html5 and google chrome are just the new internet explorer 5
  218. tom And active x
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  220. tom https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html
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  232. Arne I'm sorry 404.city this really shouldn't end up in such discussion. It has been more a question vor a hint. I was just wondering why you implemented it. Also I actually couldn't open the link with activated dns blocker. But it's maybe just me.
  233. Arne Nevertheless we should be helping us here actually. Maybe you could remove some script parts? I also had difficultis removing all this unneeded parts from my sites (and maybe there still is some left...), but never had this problem.
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  239. Arne Nevertheless we should be helping us here actually. Maybe you could remove some script parts? I also had difficultis removing all this unneeded parts from my sites (and maybe there are still is some left...), but never had this problem.
  240. Arne which also let me think about changing some things at my sites...
  241. Arne .
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  316. 404.city tom, Remove your screenshot with open browser console, if you care about your privacy)
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  318. tom Why?
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  321. 404.city /
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  465. gnu > The web developers that can't code html and css themselves, and have to import some """framework""" You serious?
  466. gnu Why re invent the wheel for every single website
  467. gnu Being able to cache jQuery once and using it in every site isnt this bad
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  470. gnu Was I kicked or did I leave by accident :(
  471. mathieui you left by accident
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  473. Ge0rG Yeah, what's wrong with dumping megabytes of JavaScript into your web page?
  474. gnu > you left by accident Thx lol
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  514. mjk Caching stuff == being vulnerable to the oh-so-easy fingerprinting
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  521. mjk Decentraleyes helps, I guess, but feels like a band-aid. If browser is a platform for applications, why doesn't this "platform" provide the basic libraries "every site" uses?
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  524. gnu Having every version of jquery and bootstrap is bloat :P
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  526. gnu Btw this exists for what you said https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/decentraleyes/
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  547. mjk > /me said: > Decentraleyes helps, I guess, but feels like a band-aid.
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  549. mjk Whoops, that's a first for me. I edited my last message instead of quoting. Usually I f-up the other way around
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  557. mjk I'll paraphrase my original message. Decentraleyes helps, I guess, but feels like a band-aid. If browser is a platform for applications, why doesn't this "platform" ship the libraries "every site" is using?
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  571. mjk > Having every version of jquery and bootstrap is bloat :P The use of the entire version zoo of a lib across the web is partly explained by the fact that devs are used to and _expect to continue_ being able to use the latest and greatest, instead of a stable standard API. Same probably goes for said lib's developers, who expect everyone to just bundle-and-forget, "live at HEAD", etc. So they feel free to break compat at every opportunity. The result is sites that each require fifteen different versions of jquery at different abstraction levels of their framework
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  929. briest Hello. Looking for contact to admins/mods of gajim@conference.gajim.org and ejabberd@conference.process-one.net. I got somehow banned from these rooms, and have no idea why; I'm only lurker... maybe something with my server?
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  993. Tim briest: In the Gajim room (where I relayed your message), wurstsalat says: > I can't have a look at the moment, but I will tomorrow, if nobody did by then :)
  994. briest Tim: thanks
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