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david1998
Hola
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Arne
Hi
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404.city
Arne, Do you understand the basic principles of browsers? If the browser has downloaded the script once, on any site it does not download the script a second time. Have you ever wondered how this can significantly speed up page loading? Ie the page is loaded on a slow connection not 2-3 minutes, but a couple of seconds?
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404.city
Arne, Did you know that cloudflare provides open source scripts for sites and oh yeah! They have built-in protection? << integrity="sha384-vFJXuSJphROIrBnz7yo7oB41mKfc8JzQZiCq4NCceLEaO4IHwicKwpJf9c9IpFgh" crossorigin="anonymous" >>
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404.city
<script src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/twitter-bootstrap/4.5.3/js/bootstrap.min.js" integrity="sha512-8qmis31OQi6hIRgvkht0s6mCOittjMa9GMqtK9hes5iEQBQE/Ca6yGE5FsW36vyipGoWQswBj/QBm2JR086Rkw==" crossorigin="anonymous"></script>
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404.city
Arni Bro, what a horror. I have embedded this script in this chat, NOW REPTILIAN KNOW EVERETING ABOUT YOU!!! Didn't it boot? RIGHT!!! It should not be loaded in the browser either, but should be from the cache of your browser
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404.city
Arne, If you have Twitter loaded in scripts, I recommend checking your plugin for blocking scripts for viruses. The share button on Twitter was made, without javascript scripts and load images. But you probably just don’t know the difference between "Twitter Bootstrap" and "Twitter"
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tom
» <404.city> Arne, Do you understand the basic principles of browsers? If the browser has downloaded the script once, on any site it does not download the script a second time. Have you ever wondered how this can significantly speed up page loading? » Ie the page is loaded on a slow connection not 2-3 minutes, but a couple of seconds? It's not
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tom
It's actually slower
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tom
The HTTP protocol itself has headers for caching and how log
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tom
You should not use javascript at all, unless you absolutely have to and there's no other way
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tom
If you care about performance and accessability
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tom
The html has to finish loading before you can even begin to startup the jvm
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tom
Vs
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tom
Html being streamed in as it receives a element closure
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tom
Then images loading
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tom
(jpegs can be encoded to support progressive scan)
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tom
Or you can use SVGs
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tom
If you use an external CDN you lose control over latency for your site
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tom
Even if you use a geographiclly close CDN, it's going to be slower because now you have to setup 2 TCP sessions sequentially, with TLS on top
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tom
Vs if you just used plain html
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tom
Serving things yourself on your own server
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tom
https://anybrowser.org/campaign/
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404.city
https://xmpp.404.city:5280/usershare/6d33720a4a94189f7b96d206ee5f6128196decf2/asa4zw5TzuiMiNRGdhD02PawBoPMwPe4Yp2mtzPa/Screenshot_from_2021-01-14_04-38-07.png
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404.city
tom, Thanks for the helpful advice ... There is a hint in chrome, for those who do not understand the headers, that the content is cached. In this screenshot you can find this place. In this screenshot you can find this place. На этом скриншоте вы можете найти это место. On this screenshot you can find this place. На этом скриншоте вы можете найти это место.✎ -
404.city
tom, Thanks for the helpful advice ... There is a hint in chrome, for those who do not understand the headers, that the content is cached. In this screenshot you can find this place. In this screenshot you can find this place. ✏
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tom
Oh
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tom
You can use webbrowser
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tom
It provides much better HTTP debugging tools
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tom
Hold on
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404.city
tom, This is a screenshot from the browser
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tom
https://upload.nuegia.net/2c79b375-8912-4663-9668-589525c08eb3/screenshot_016.png
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tom
Also
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tom
Chrome's caching is very buggy
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tom
Like
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tom
Things don't refresh when you press refresh or tell it not to cache
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tom
It's also not a really good litmus test for web interop
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tom
Since the blink engine is more optimized for running google's webapps rather than viewing web pages efficiently
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christian
404.city: You never need the whole bootstrap. Usually you only need "util.JS". Or one or two more. And even if you don't need the whole bootstrap CSS, it's a development mistake to ping cloudflare every time from every connected IP, and it's definitely a mistake to download half a mega every time you send 2 letters in a chat. If you're too lazy to pick what you need and would rather do one hell of a traffic, stop developing for god's sake.
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tom
https://upload.nuegia.net/3ae80218-17e4-4568-b269-0c8e6f3837a2/screenshot_017.png
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tom
I'd argue that using bootstrap is a terrible mistake
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404.city
tom, Pay attention to the title on your screenshot. The "last modification"
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tom
Just write the data in the HTML
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tom
Then write a few CSS rules to add borders and good contrast and set a front
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tom
Then your done
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404.city
christian, Where do you see the chat on this page?
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tom
https://www.nuegia.net/style.css
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404.city
> tom: Just write the data in the HTML This is not just a date, if you were a web application developer, then you would know that this header needs to be set manually and it is responsible for caching
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tom
404.city: nginx has a very powerful syntax for setting caching headers
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tom
Set a ttl
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tom
Or a date
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tom
Keep static objects in sane paths, then just apply caching rules that make sense for the path
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tom
There's two main kinds of caching in http
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tom
The kind where you tell the browser to keep the resource, and the kind you tell the browser to keep the resource but check back if it's been modified
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christian
404.city: Don't worry, if I criticise you, you are valuable. I don't criticise everyone.
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tom
It's the difference between a http 301 and no http request at all
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tom
For example on my CDN that handles the http-upload XEP I set location / { perl upload::handle; expires modified +60d; add_header Cache-Control private; }
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tom
Since I delete files 60 days after they've been uploaded
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tom
And it's a static resource prepended with a guid so it's not going to change
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tom
Oh, btw there's an interesting cache control parameter "IMMUTABLE" which is intended for content-addressable object stores
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tom
Like IPFS
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404.city
From your paronial advice and unrepeatable fears, the Internet works slower and this is very noticeable for Internet users with slow connections. It doesn't increase privacy and security in any way, it looks like a cargo cult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
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tom
I've been thinking about integrating IPFS into my cdn so that if users are still interested in files after to 60d purge than it's still accessible, and I can just use ipfs daemon's built in garbage collector instead of a time based thing
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404.city
https://xmpp.404.city:5280/usershare/6d33720a4a94189f7b96d206ee5f6128196decf2/9RMjzCeLITZGf0JqfBUIWbRqU0lIe8xWOnpn0avL/download__12_.jpeg
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tom
404.city: the only cargo-culting going on is the people who ADD javascript to their site, thinking it will make it faster
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tom
You don't add to websites to make them faster you remove
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tom
And you leverage fine control of HTTP's headers
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tom
The web developers that can't code html and css themselves, and have to import some """framework"""
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tom
Or use wordpress and install a bunch of ""optimization plugins""
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404.city
tom, The saddest thing is that you mislead other people who understand it even less. I gave you a screenshot from the browser that proved it was cached, but you continue to prove that it is not. This explanation was signed by the developers in the browser especially for you.
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404.city
tom, https://xmpp.404.city:5280/usershare/6d33720a4a94189f7b96d206ee5f6128196decf2/asa4zw5TzuiMiNRGdhD02PawBoPMwPe4Yp2mtzPa/Screenshot_from_2021-01-14_04-38-07.png
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tom
404.city: you misunderstand
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tom
I'm saying you shouldn't rely on Jquery at all
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tom
That you should remove to dependence of jquery from you site
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404.city
https://xmpp.404.city:5280/usershare/6d33720a4a94189f7b96d206ee5f6128196decf2/Z1M1x2QJzNDgB72CYbgZ0wiCVr53SOvAUTybbfJg/bootstrap.png
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tom
Gross
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tom
And not privacy conscious
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404.city
tom, You have already downloaded this file on other sites, and after that you worry.
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tom
No i haven;t
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tom
I disable javashit
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tom
I don't browse sites that only work in firefox/chrome
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tom
Or require excessive resources
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tom
2gb of ram to display a paragraph on text on a screen
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tom
It's inexcusable
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tom
Ability to get into a fucking botnet, just by visiting a web page
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404.city
tom, Well, let's just say so. Sites shouldn't have javascript at all...
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tom
Popups, ads, cookie notices
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tom
For example
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tom
Use invidious or straw-viewer to access youtube without javashit or modern web retardation
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tom
https://upload.nuegia.net/03cfe502-2bd1-4fdb-abe6-871f97e907f1/web-color.png
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tom
https://upload.nuegia.net/b02e658d-5504-484d-8e00-5526702c3654/noajax.png
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tom
Html5 and google chrome are just the new internet explorer 5
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tom
And active x
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tom
https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html
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Arne
I'm sorry 404.city this really shouldn't end up in such discussion. It has been more a question vor a hint. I was just wondering why you implemented it. Also I actually couldn't open the link with activated dns blocker. But it's maybe just me.
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Arne
Nevertheless we should be helping us here actually. Maybe you could remove some script parts? I also had difficultis removing all this unneeded parts from my sites (and maybe there still is some left...), but never had this problem.✎ -
Arne
Nevertheless we should be helping us here actually. Maybe you could remove some script parts? I also had difficultis removing all this unneeded parts from my sites (and maybe there are still is some left...), but never had this problem. ✏
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Arne
which also let me think about changing some things at my sites...✎ -
Arne
. ✏
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404.city
tom, Remove your screenshot with open browser console, if you care about your privacy)✎ -
tom
Why?
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404.city
/ ✏
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gnu
> The web developers that can't code html and css themselves, and have to import some """framework""" You serious?
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gnu
Why re invent the wheel for every single website
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gnu
Being able to cache jQuery once and using it in every site isnt this bad
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gnu
Was I kicked or did I leave by accident :(
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mathieui
you left by accident
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Ge0rG
Yeah, what's wrong with dumping megabytes of JavaScript into your web page?
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gnu
> you left by accident Thx lol
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mjk
Caching stuff == being vulnerable to the oh-so-easy fingerprinting
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mjk
Decentraleyes helps, I guess, but feels like a band-aid. If browser is a platform for applications, why doesn't this "platform" provide the basic libraries "every site" uses?✎ -
gnu
Having every version of jquery and bootstrap is bloat :P
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gnu
Btw this exists for what you said https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/decentraleyes/
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mjk
> /me said: > Decentraleyes helps, I guess, but feels like a band-aid. ✏
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mjk
Whoops, that's a first for me. I edited my last message instead of quoting. Usually I f-up the other way around
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mjk
I'll paraphrase my original message. Decentraleyes helps, I guess, but feels like a band-aid. If browser is a platform for applications, why doesn't this "platform" ship the libraries "every site" is using?
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mjk
> Having every version of jquery and bootstrap is bloat :P The use of the entire version zoo of a lib across the web is partly explained by the fact that devs are used to and _expect to continue_ being able to use the latest and greatest, instead of a stable standard API. Same probably goes for said lib's developers, who expect everyone to just bundle-and-forget, "live at HEAD", etc. So they feel free to break compat at every opportunity. The result is sites that each require fifteen different versions of jquery at different abstraction levels of their framework
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mjk
_That_ is bloat
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briest
Hello. Looking for contact to admins/mods of gajim@conference.gajim.org and ejabberd@conference.process-one.net. I got somehow banned from these rooms, and have no idea why; I'm only lurker... maybe something with my server?
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Tim
briest: In the Gajim room (where I relayed your message), wurstsalat says: > I can't have a look at the moment, but I will tomorrow, if nobody did by then :)
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briest
Tim: thanks