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tom
10:54:02
someone is signing fake certs trying to mitm my users. I have already deployed CAA so https://cdn.nuegia.net/ef1847ca-08a5-460b-86f2-37c6f6185253/3693708094_20210201_113722.jpg
tom
10:54:12
This signature should have been impossible
tom
10:54:24
Is there anything else I can do
tom
10:54:33
Or perhaps make the CAA record more strict
tom
10:54:42
I have absolutely zero bussiness with cisco
tom
10:54:50
They should NOT be signing certs for my domain
Ge0rG
10:56:11
tom: 1. download the certificate chain for evidence preservation
Ge0rG
10:57:31
tom: is that certificate chain rooted with a trusted root CA, or is there a warning about it being untrusted?
Ge0rG
10:58:09
tom: is the report from a user behind a corporate firewall?
Ge0rG
10:58:25
Anybody can create a certificate claiming to be Cisco, and I can imagine a "TLS inspection firewall" to behave in this way
pepta.net
10:58:40
tom: openDNS?
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pepta.net
11:03:38
You should probably disable all these DNS hijacking providers.
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tom
11:09:08
It's a warning about the cert being untrusted
MattJ
11:09:42
Easily signed for any domain then
tom
11:09:46
I see
tom
11:09:58
Would DNSSEC prevent this or can that just be stripped
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MattJ
11:10:54
In theory...
MattJ
11:11:47
DNSSEC aside, the (fragile) CA ecosystem basically involves a set of trusted CAs promising that they will only issue signed certificates to the domain owners
MattJ
11:12:27
Anyone can set up a "CA" and issue certificates for any domain they like, but browsers/software will alert for certificates from any CA that they aren't preconfigured to trust
MattJ
11:13:26
Who is trustworthy is decided by the browser vendors, and the list of people who can issue legitimate certs for any domain is pretty long and includes a bunch of people you probably wouldn't want to trust yourself
jonas’
11:13:58
browser and OS vendors
MattJ
11:13:59
DNSSEC/DANE is a nicer alternative to this
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MattJ
11:14:49
jonas’, does any OS vendor manage their own trust anchors, rather than depending on Mozilla to make those decisions?
MattJ
11:15:05
I'll mark Microsoft as a browser vendor ;)
jonas’
11:15:52
MattJ, good question, I just checked debian and they just steal mozilla’s ✎
jonas’
11:16:03
MattJ, good question, I just checked debian and they just steal the one from mozilla ✏
MattJ
11:16:51
Yeah
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tom
11:41:17
I use Debian's CA trust
tom
11:41:21
https://packages.debian.org/sid/ca-certificates
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tom
11:41:51
Is there any CA's that I probably shouldn't trust in there your talking about MattJ?
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tom
11:42:53
» Please note that Debian can neither confirm nor deny whether the certificate authorities whose certificates are included in this package have in any way been audited for trustworthiness or RFC 3647 compliance. Full responsibility to assess them belongs to the local system administrator.
MattJ
11:44:23
I'm a stranger on the internet, don't trust me ;)
MattJ
11:45:11
Seriously, I don't know... I tend to deselect some random ones, 80% of everything is on just a few roots anyway now due to Let's Encrypt
tom
11:45:33
Crazy how centralized it is
tom
11:45:34
But
tom
11:45:50
Wasn't there something that was supposed to replace this
tom
11:45:56
Called Convergence or something?
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MattJ
11:51:46
Yeah, I don't know if that went anywhere
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MattJ
11:52:10
I think Certificate Transparency logging may have come from that direction though
MattJ
11:52:59
so audited CAs are supposed to publicly announce all certificates they sign (and as a domain owner you can theoretically use this to ensure nobody is issuing certificates for your domain without your knowledge)
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pepta.net
11:54:46
If you rely on any DNS based solution like DNSSEC/DANE, but the client (or you) uses a DNS hijacking providers, this won't be of any use, as any param could be changed by the DNS provider itself.
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perflyst
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jonas’
11:56:01
pepta.net, you have to distinguish different layers of DNS here
jonas’
11:56:12
assuming DNSSEC on the domain, an entity like OpenDNS or Google cannot do anything ✎
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jonas’
11:56:20
assuming DNSSEC on the domain, an entity like OpenDNS or Google cannot do anything to hijack something ✏
jonas’
11:56:36
because there is a chain of verification from the root zone down to your records which cannot be broken by a man in the middle
jonas’
11:57:14
your DNS service provider (i.e. the entity which publishes the DNS records of *your* zone) however can of course do some hijacking, same for the parent zones of your zone (i.e. if you have foo.example.com, then example.com., com., and the root zone could do nasty things to you)
pepta.net
11:57:43
So you mean root zone cert is not returned by DNS request but preloaded by soft?
jonas’
11:57:45
(but the attacks get much more tricky and much more obvious the farther up in the chain you are, hence being the root zone is not really helpful to attack foo.example.com., as you’d also have to forge a plausible com. zone for that)
jonas’
11:57:50
pepta.net, exactly
jonas’
11:57:55
those are the trust anchors
pepta.net
11:58:25
Ok so I agree with you. Thanks for info.
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tom
12:00:32
So cisco could not send hijacked replies for my domain if i used dnssec
tom
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Couldn't they just strip the signage information
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jonas’
12:00:51
tom, not with a validating resolver
tom
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I see
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tom
12:01:12
Wait
jonas’
12:01:12
the validating reolver would see the DS records from your parent zone and know that your zone publishes signatures
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tom
12:01:44
Does windows contain a validating resolver
tom
12:01:50
Or only openbsd's unwind
jonas’
12:01:55
I have no idea
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tom
12:05:28
Thankyou for the help
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chunk
12:13:49
That was a most interesting topic
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