XMPP Service Operators - 2021-02-01


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  408. tom someone is signing fake certs trying to mitm my users. I have already deployed CAA so https://cdn.nuegia.net/ef1847ca-08a5-460b-86f2-37c6f6185253/3693708094_20210201_113722.jpg
  409. tom This signature should have been impossible
  410. tom Is there anything else I can do
  411. tom Or perhaps make the CAA record more strict
  412. tom I have absolutely zero bussiness with cisco
  413. tom They should NOT be signing certs for my domain
  414. Ge0rG tom: 1. download the certificate chain for evidence preservation
  415. Ge0rG tom: is that certificate chain rooted with a trusted root CA, or is there a warning about it being untrusted?
  416. Ge0rG tom: is the report from a user behind a corporate firewall?
  417. Ge0rG Anybody can create a certificate claiming to be Cisco, and I can imagine a "TLS inspection firewall" to behave in this way
  418. pepta.net tom: openDNS?
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  421. pepta.net You should probably disable all these DNS hijacking providers.
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  425. tom It's a warning about the cert being untrusted
  426. MattJ Easily signed for any domain then
  427. tom I see
  428. tom Would DNSSEC prevent this or can that just be stripped
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  430. MattJ In theory...
  431. MattJ DNSSEC aside, the (fragile) CA ecosystem basically involves a set of trusted CAs promising that they will only issue signed certificates to the domain owners
  432. MattJ Anyone can set up a "CA" and issue certificates for any domain they like, but browsers/software will alert for certificates from any CA that they aren't preconfigured to trust
  433. MattJ Who is trustworthy is decided by the browser vendors, and the list of people who can issue legitimate certs for any domain is pretty long and includes a bunch of people you probably wouldn't want to trust yourself
  434. jonas’ browser and OS vendors
  435. MattJ DNSSEC/DANE is a nicer alternative to this
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  438. MattJ jonas’, does any OS vendor manage their own trust anchors, rather than depending on Mozilla to make those decisions?
  439. MattJ I'll mark Microsoft as a browser vendor ;)
  440. jonas’ MattJ, good question, I just checked debian and they just steal mozilla’s
  441. jonas’ MattJ, good question, I just checked debian and they just steal the one from mozilla
  442. MattJ Yeah
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  459. tom I use Debian's CA trust
  460. tom https://packages.debian.org/sid/ca-certificates
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  463. tom Is there any CA's that I probably shouldn't trust in there your talking about MattJ?
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  467. tom » Please note that Debian can neither confirm nor deny whether the certificate authorities whose certificates are included in this package have in any way been audited for trustworthiness or RFC 3647 compliance. Full responsibility to assess them belongs to the local system administrator.
  468. MattJ I'm a stranger on the internet, don't trust me ;)
  469. MattJ Seriously, I don't know... I tend to deselect some random ones, 80% of everything is on just a few roots anyway now due to Let's Encrypt
  470. tom Crazy how centralized it is
  471. tom But
  472. tom Wasn't there something that was supposed to replace this
  473. tom Called Convergence or something?
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  476. MattJ Yeah, I don't know if that went anywhere
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  479. MattJ I think Certificate Transparency logging may have come from that direction though
  480. MattJ so audited CAs are supposed to publicly announce all certificates they sign (and as a domain owner you can theoretically use this to ensure nobody is issuing certificates for your domain without your knowledge)
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  483. pepta.net If you rely on any DNS based solution like DNSSEC/DANE, but the client (or you) uses a DNS hijacking providers, this won't be of any use, as any param could be changed by the DNS provider itself.
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  488. jonas’ pepta.net, you have to distinguish different layers of DNS here
  489. jonas’ assuming DNSSEC on the domain, an entity like OpenDNS or Google cannot do anything
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  491. jonas’ assuming DNSSEC on the domain, an entity like OpenDNS or Google cannot do anything to hijack something
  492. jonas’ because there is a chain of verification from the root zone down to your records which cannot be broken by a man in the middle
  493. jonas’ your DNS service provider (i.e. the entity which publishes the DNS records of *your* zone) however can of course do some hijacking, same for the parent zones of your zone (i.e. if you have foo.example.com, then example.com., com., and the root zone could do nasty things to you)
  494. pepta.net So you mean root zone cert is not returned by DNS request but preloaded by soft?
  495. jonas’ (but the attacks get much more tricky and much more obvious the farther up in the chain you are, hence being the root zone is not really helpful to attack foo.example.com., as you’d also have to forge a plausible com. zone for that)
  496. jonas’ pepta.net, exactly
  497. jonas’ those are the trust anchors
  498. pepta.net Ok so I agree with you. Thanks for info.
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  503. tom So cisco could not send hijacked replies for my domain if i used dnssec
  504. tom Couldn't they just strip the signage information
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  506. jonas’ tom, not with a validating resolver
  507. tom I see
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  509. tom Wait
  510. jonas’ the validating reolver would see the DS records from your parent zone and know that your zone publishes signatures
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  512. tom Does windows contain a validating resolver
  513. tom Or only openbsd's unwind
  514. jonas’ I have no idea
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  516. tom Thankyou for the help
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  526. chunk That was a most interesting topic
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