XMPP Service Operators - 2021-02-16


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  309. tom Does anybody have a link to a good beginner's user guide to XMPP?
  310. tom Beginner's guide to XMPP (for users)
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  314. Alex https://matrix.org/docs/guides/
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  316. jonas’ first I thought this was about the matrix XMPP library but this isn’t
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  321. Kris tom joinjabber.org is planning to have one, feel free to contribute
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  324. Licaon_Kter tom: https://www.chapril.org/-XMPP-.html too
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  330. ernst.on.tour Because XMPP is an open system you will get more than one client and every client works a little bit different. No easy thing to find *the* documentation
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  347. tom The one on the xmpp wiki is also good
  348. tom I made this message: https://www.nuegia.net/converse
  349. tom For the people without javascript support
  350. tom (disable javascript to see it)
  351. tom https://lainsafe.kalli.st/files/161346557179573.png
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  709. Kris any feed-back or additions: https://pad.lqdn.fr/p/joinxmppfaq
  710. Kris feel free to edit and add further questions
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  715. 404.city >ernst.on.tour‎: Because XMPP is an open system you will get more than one client and every client works a little bit different. No easy thing to find *the* documentation +1
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  1117. tom » [08:00:33] <Kris> any feed-back or additions: https://pad.lqdn.fr/p/joinxmppfaq » [08:00:58] <Kris> feel free to edit and add further questions
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  1119. tom Kris, your site is broken and not accessable https://cdn.nuegia.net/3fe100b2-810a-43ce-a61c-3c72ba97784c/screenshot_011.png
  1120. tom Just telling people to enable jabbashit isn't helpful
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  1134. tom Instead of using the space for a loading message
  1135. tom Inside the <noscript> tag put actual html code
  1136. tom There any many reasons why someone would disable javascript or otherwise not be able to run it
  1137. tom For one, if javascript is enabled it's possible to get into a botnet just by visiting a webpage
  1138. tom Many useragents's javascript implementations are buggy and cause sugfaults
  1139. tom And many things in javascript only actually work in google chrome
  1140. tom A lot of people do not want to run software on their computer from a advertising agency and surveillance capitalism corporation
  1141. tom Many user agents, especially those with disabilities do not support javascript
  1142. tom Such as links, lynx, and w3m
  1143. tom As well as not running javascript is a great way to bypass a lot of tracking technologies on the web
  1144. tom It's also, just a flat out insane security model to be going around executing every single piece of code you see on the internet
  1145. tom Javascript implementations are also the most likely part of a web browser to contain security vulnerabilities, if the track record of mozilla and google and apple products is anything to show for
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  1148. tom https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html
  1149. tom I would suggest to you at the very least, offering plain html content in a <noscript> tag
  1150. tom And at the most reworking the site to use XHTML1.1 BASIC with no scripts
  1151. tom https://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-basic/
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  1154. tom There's no inbetween with XHTML1.1, there's a validator, alternative any XML tooling that can parse a dtd can tell you if the document is correct or malformed
  1155. tom Though the w3c validator provides friendly suggestions when it detects an error
  1156. tom Keep in mind that HTML5 is not a real standard
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  1158. tom It's a "fluid standard" which really just means whatever the latest version of google chrome is doing at any particular point in time
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  1160. tom It's also not maintained by a conflict of interest free standards body like the W3C or the XSF. It's maintained by "WHATWG" (Apple, Google, Mozilla, Microsoft) which have been some of the absolute most atrocious names in technology when it comes to interoperability and standards
  1161. Kris this is not "my" site and actually a Etherpad instance that simply will not work without javascript and due to the functonality is also impossible to make work without javascript
  1162. tom Also
  1163. Kris but this is really off topic
  1164. tom Ok, i see
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  1167. tom It's not off topic at all, your just not looking at the bigger picture here
  1168. Kris https://codeberg.org/joinjabber/website/issues/12
  1169. Kris has the text as a pain text file attached
  1170. Kris and it is off topic for this chat
  1171. pintosesk Perhaps one could create an XHTML compliant mirror with Kris 's consent.
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  1173. Kris it is a collaborative Etherpad. the sole purpose is to have it in a single place to work on it together
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  1176. Kris so 🤷‍♂️️
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  1178. tom No need pintosesk, there's a plaintext version i found here https://codeberg.org/attachments/9306419d-4ed4-401a-b8f3-971b102feac8
  1179. tom But indeed perhaps this would be better suited to the mailinglist
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  1184. tom 8c8,18 < A: XMPP is an open standard for real-time messaging, typically used for instant messaging chat applications. It is internally used by some of the largest commercial chat applications (WhatsApp for example), but there is also an open network of federated servers and allow anyone to run their own services and interact with others. --- > A:XMPP is: > An open, secure technology for instant messaging and a whole lot more. > A friendly community of end users and developers who value freedom of communication. > A decentralized network of IM services in which your messages are not monitored by a big company like AOL, Microsoft, or Yahoo. You can even run your own server! > A set of stable standards for real-time communications, published by the IETF and the XMPP Standards Foundation. > Instant messaging the way it was meant to be! > > In other words, XMPP is NOT a closed, insecure, unfriendly, centralized, proprietary instant messaging service like AIM, ICQ, MSN, or Yahoo. > > Instead, XMPP gives you true freedom of conversation. > (taken from https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Philosophy_overview) 35c45 < A: Most people use a form of XMPP every day without even realizing it. XMPP forms the basis of many commercial messaging platforms (such as WhatsApp) and is widely used in the gaming industry for multiplayer applications. Many large companies & organisations also utilize it for their internal communication. Unfortunately, few of these use-cases are open to the wider XMPP federation and some that were open in the past decided to close this interoperability for mainly profit-oriented reasons. --- > A: Most people use a form of XMPP every day without even realizing it. XMPP forms the basis of many commercial messaging platforms (such as WhatsApp) and is widely used in the gaming industry for multiplayer applications. Many large companies & organisations also utilize it for their internal communication. Unfortunately, few of these use-cases are open to the wider XMPP federation and some that were open in the past decided to close this interoperability for mainly short term gain profit-oriented reasons.
  1185. Kris thanks, will go though it and might incorporate some of the suggestions.