XMPP Service Operators - 2021-02-16

Does anybody have a link to a good beginner's user guide to XMPP?

Beginner's guide to XMPP (for users)

https://matrix.org/docs/guides/

first I thought this was about the matrix XMPP library but this isn’t

tom joinjabber.org is planning to have one, feel free to contribute

tom: https://www.chapril.org/-XMPP-.html too

Because XMPP is an open system you will get more than one client and every client works a little bit different. No easy thing to find *the* documentation

The one on the xmpp wiki is also good

I made this message: https://www.nuegia.net/converse

For the people without javascript support

(disable javascript to see it)

https://lainsafe.kalli.st/files/161346557179573.png

any feed-back or additions: https://pad.lqdn.fr/p/joinxmppfaq

feel free to edit and add further questions

>ernst.on.tour‎: Because XMPP is an open system you will get more than one client and every client works a little bit different. No easy thing to find *the* documentation +1

» [08:00:33] <Kris> any feed-back or additions: https://pad.lqdn.fr/p/joinxmppfaq » [08:00:58] <Kris> feel free to edit and add further questions

Kris, your site is broken and not accessable https://cdn.nuegia.net/3fe100b2-810a-43ce-a61c-3c72ba97784c/screenshot_011.png

Just telling people to enable jabbashit isn't helpful

Instead of using the space for a loading message

Inside the <noscript> tag put actual html code

There any many reasons why someone would disable javascript or otherwise not be able to run it

For one, if javascript is enabled it's possible to get into a botnet just by visiting a webpage

Many useragents's javascript implementations are buggy and cause sugfaults

And many things in javascript only actually work in google chrome

A lot of people do not want to run software on their computer from a advertising agency and surveillance capitalism corporation

Many user agents, especially those with disabilities do not support javascript

Such as links, lynx, and w3m

As well as not running javascript is a great way to bypass a lot of tracking technologies on the web

It's also, just a flat out insane security model to be going around executing every single piece of code you see on the internet

Javascript implementations are also the most likely part of a web browser to contain security vulnerabilities, if the track record of mozilla and google and apple products is anything to show for

https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html

I would suggest to you at the very least, offering plain html content in a <noscript> tag

And at the most reworking the site to use XHTML1.1 BASIC with no scripts

https://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-basic/

There's no inbetween with XHTML1.1, there's a validator, alternative any XML tooling that can parse a dtd can tell you if the document is correct or malformed

Though the w3c validator provides friendly suggestions when it detects an error

Keep in mind that HTML5 is not a real standard

It's a "fluid standard" which really just means whatever the latest version of google chrome is doing at any particular point in time

It's also not maintained by a conflict of interest free standards body like the W3C or the XSF. It's maintained by "WHATWG" (Apple, Google, Mozilla, Microsoft) which have been some of the absolute most atrocious names in technology when it comes to interoperability and standards

this is not "my" site and actually a Etherpad instance that simply will not work without javascript and due to the functonality is also impossible to make work without javascript

Also

but this is really off topic

Ok, i see

It's not off topic at all, your just not looking at the bigger picture here

https://codeberg.org/joinjabber/website/issues/12

has the text as a pain text file attached

and it is off topic for this chat

Perhaps one could create an XHTML compliant mirror with Kris 's consent.

it is a collaborative Etherpad. the sole purpose is to have it in a single place to work on it together

so 🤷‍♂️️

No need pintosesk, there's a plaintext version i found here https://codeberg.org/attachments/9306419d-4ed4-401a-b8f3-971b102feac8

But indeed perhaps this would be better suited to the mailinglist

8c8,18 < A: XMPP is an open standard for real-time messaging, typically used for instant messaging chat applications. It is internally used by some of the largest commercial chat applications (WhatsApp for example), but there is also an open network of federated servers and allow anyone to run their own services and interact with others. --- > A:XMPP is: > An open, secure technology for instant messaging and a whole lot more. > A friendly community of end users and developers who value freedom of communication. > A decentralized network of IM services in which your messages are not monitored by a big company like AOL, Microsoft, or Yahoo. You can even run your own server! > A set of stable standards for real-time communications, published by the IETF and the XMPP Standards Foundation. > Instant messaging the way it was meant to be! > > In other words, XMPP is NOT a closed, insecure, unfriendly, centralized, proprietary instant messaging service like AIM, ICQ, MSN, or Yahoo. > > Instead, XMPP gives you true freedom of conversation. > (taken from https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Philosophy_overview) 35c45 < A: Most people use a form of XMPP every day without even realizing it. XMPP forms the basis of many commercial messaging platforms (such as WhatsApp) and is widely used in the gaming industry for multiplayer applications. Many large companies & organisations also utilize it for their internal communication. Unfortunately, few of these use-cases are open to the wider XMPP federation and some that were open in the past decided to close this interoperability for mainly profit-oriented reasons. --- > A: Most people use a form of XMPP every day without even realizing it. XMPP forms the basis of many commercial messaging platforms (such as WhatsApp) and is widely used in the gaming industry for multiplayer applications. Many large companies & organisations also utilize it for their internal communication. Unfortunately, few of these use-cases are open to the wider XMPP federation and some that were open in the past decided to close this interoperability for mainly short term gain profit-oriented reasons.

thanks, will go though it and might incorporate some of the suggestions.