XMPP Service Operators - 2021-02-17

  1. tom

    Glad to help

  2. christian

    tom: +1

  3. christian

    theoretically there is reason why a etherpad could not work without JavaScript. You just must press submit after each modification

  4. Kris

    that would pretty much defeat the purpose of it

  5. tom

    Surely that could be done in a <noscript> tag instead of YOU MUST ENABLE JAVASCRIPT TO RUN THIS APP

  6. raucao

    And you want to reload over your changes when someone else is typing? Deal with it, the web without JS is not a platform for realtime collaboration software

  7. christian

    raucao: the Browser could take care of it. So you could implement a "JavaScript light" something like "onchange=submit" that could be enabled in the browser without the whole JavaScript to be on.

  8. christian

    I see a bigger problem in ajax, vanilla JavaScript is not so dangerous.

  9. christian

    The big 5 always will try steal your data. And as long as Internet will be free they will get your data because your friends give it to them. Nobody is protecting someone else's data.

  10. raucao

    OK, so you want browsers to behave in a different way and that's why you won't use a collaboration platform that doesn't send data to the big 5

  11. raucao

    makes total sense

  12. raucao

    choose your battles. if browser functionality is one you choose, go discuss at w3c

  13. raucao

    or whatwg

  14. raucao

    onchange=submit won't help you with incoming data

  15. raucao

    there's no way without a dynamic language on top to implement a realtime collaboration platform on the web platform

  16. raucao

    in fact, JS allows you to NOT have to rely on servers to lock you in

  17. raucao

    see e.g. https://unhosted.org

  18. ernst.on.tour

    Excuse my question, but within whole discussion I don't see the connection to XMPP-Service. Do this help any XMPP-Server-Operator ?

  19. christian

    raucao: then I would go the way , and say I do not need realtime collaboration. I can collaborate better offline.

  20. raucao

    that's your problem then, not whoever wants to use etherpad

  21. christian

    ernst.on.tour: don't be so strict, it is a bit or, but you can tolerate it. At least we do not criticise masks.

  22. raucao

    i do :p

  23. raucao ducks

  24. ernst.on.tour

    christian: I'm not stricked, but I'm no english nativ speaker. Sometimes I lost information because I don't understand the right way. I thought this muc is for server-operators and maybe I lost importing things in your discussion and have a todo....

  25. ernst.on.tour

    raucao: Feel free. Sitting alone in the basement, hacking the keyboard, whichone will get infected ? 😂

  26. christian

    ernst.on.tour: I noted a nice idea. To start and think about a set of questions that every service operator should answer on his homepage. We could call it "the xmpp service operators self audit". This can guide user and operators as well.

  27. Kris

    sounds good, how about you start something that can be contributed to joinjabber.org?

  28. Kris

    joinjabber.org is more aimed at end users than server operators. but such small scale server operators that seem most likely in need of such a self-audit guide are also wthin the scope I guess.

  29. ernst.on.tour

    christian: What will you query about ? There is a dico-item about admin/abuse. How will you be sure that nobody lies ? "Your data is protected by L3-Datacenter with Iris-scanner and passwords are stored crypted, trust us" and for real it is a Raspi under the table. Also not every server-op hot a website. Nice anecdote beside, in Germany there have to be an "Impressum" There you have to name your address and shorttime conntect-data, e.g. eMail or phone. Saddly the spam-mafia and others read this informations. My brother was called by police ladt year because somebody use his conntact-data and a stolen bank account number. They want to arrest him because somebody buy porn in england but bank-account-owner stop payment. Was a 89years old man without computer or mobile. For sure every thief use his real name.

  30. christian

    I think that questions should be subject oft brainstorm of many people. Some propose others discuss and comment... Etc

  31. Kris

    yeah, make a etherpad about it and let people contribute :p But someone has to start it.

  32. pintosesk


  33. pintosesk

    You could use a basic refreshing edit log as a CGI script

  34. pintosesk

    I think...

  35. pintosesk

    And then the file entered into a form field is the editor, and the view would be a refreshing html document as well.

  36. pintosesk

    I'm pretty sure there are HTML-only or other-scripting-language possible forms of this, or HTTP transfer powered client possibilities.

  37. pintosesk

    Until one becomes prominent tho, ehh. Can't blame ya for using web 5.0 stuff.

  38. mae


  39. mae

    Mls s!

  40. Licaon_Kter

    mae: Hi there. What brings you to this corner of the ecosystem?

  41. mae


  42. pintosesk

    My stance is twofold. Do what you want with the web, and if using HTML as just that is appealing, and the editor being encapsulated in CGIs and clients that do web transfers, you'll gravitate to it.

  43. pintosesk

    All I have to do is actually implement some good shit.

  44. pintosesk

    I think.