XMPP Service Operators - 2021-02-18


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  28. tom raucao: realtime collaboration doesn't belong in a document rendering system
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  30. tom Nor does javascript
  31. tom And javascript is an absolutely terrible language for implementing realtime event driven collaboration in
  32. tom The problem is what your trying to use here for collaboration and feedback is inacessable to a large amount of people
  33. tom I'm telling you now about it
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  35. tom Imagine if some big corpo like Facebook came around here, with a modified spec server and client
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  38. tom That was completely incompatible with everything else and did not gracefully degrade
  39. tom It's only expected to get some pushback
  40. tom Especially from the people who need special accommodations who the XMPP equivalent of "just use chrome" won't work
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  42. tom Javascript isn't standard and it doesn't gracefully degrade
  43. tom And it's probably just about the worst scripting language not make as a joke
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  45. tom The only thing worse that comes to mind is brainfuck
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  48. tom Imagine if a person in a wheelchair tried to enter a shop, and bouncer at the door put his hand out blocking the path and yelled "YOU NEED LEGS TO ENTER THIS STORE"
  49. tom That's what your doing when you do the html equivalent of <noscript>YOU NEED JAVASCRIPT YOU USE THIS APP</noscript>
  50. tom Even OMEMO (XEP-0284) can graefully degrade to plaintext
  51. tom Altough argument it does a terrible job of it
  52. tom Although arguably it does a terrible job of it
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  55. tom Really though, the problem with google chrome and web2.0 webshit is that it is practically a completely different system with completely different scope for some stupid reason running over the same wire protocol
  56. tom That is incompatible with each other
  57. tom And no raucao the whatwg is not a place to go to discuss this, that's a place to go to have google, your supreme corporate overlord dictate to you an impossible to implement spec
  58. tom That changes every 2 weeks
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  60. tom The w3c did not make html5
  61. tom They made HTML4 and XHTML
  62. tom They just tongue-in-cheekingly snapshot whatwg's html5 every now and then
  63. tom Copyright © WHATWG (Apple, Google, Mozilla, Microsoft)
  64. tom If you make to make a website, make a website
  65. tom If you want to make a google chrome app
  66. tom That's something completely different
  67. tom God i hope that never happens to the XSF
  68. tom There is a XEP for what service operators should fill in for XMPP servers https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0157.html
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  207. Menel Constructive would be to tell what software to use instead to do that collaboration. Isy there something similar? If the only goal is to take the site down then "the bouncer" will $Kik everyone out"
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  358. mjk One big fat *+1* to xhtml
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  361. mjk > Constructive would be to tell what software to use instead to do that collaboration. Isy there something similar? Git? :3
  362. mjk Also, if my memory serves me right, _ther's a xep for that_
  363. mjk Also, if my memory serves me right, _there's a xep for that_
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  365. mjk Or at least a gajim plugin
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  368. Menel XHTML is fine. But be realistic, they won't write something with that now just like that by themselves.. If there is nothing already done..
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  383. Kris mumbles something about running Javascript in the browser being no different from any other kind of autoupdated software...
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  421. pintosesk See a need, fill a need...
  422. pintosesk To quote a cheeky 2005 movie.
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  425. pintosesk > Kris mumbles something about running Javascript in the browser being no different from any other kind of autoupdated software... There's a difference between autoupdated software, and an autoupdated *protocol*.
  426. mimi89999 Ge0rG, why on yax.im there is no `mod_proxy65` and no `mod_vcard_legacy`?
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  428. pintosesk Especially one that moves fast and breaks itself.
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  434. Ge0rG mimi89999: because I'm allergic to untested modules, and there was a time when I had to pay for data traffic on yax.im
  435. mimi89999 What happened?
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  438. Licaon_Kter What was the usecase for 65? I keep getting connections on its port and I don't thing my users actually do that...
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  440. mimi89999 Jingle FT behind NAT
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  443. Licaon_Kter I had some of those but...don't think there where used that much though
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  446. Holger Not just to circumvent NAT but also for performance (avoid splitting up the file into tiny chunks and base64-encoding them).
  447. jonas’ (performance compared to IBB, not performacne compared to a direct non-NATed connection
  448. jonas’ (performance compared to IBB, not performacne compared to a direct non-NATed connection)
  449. Holger Ah indeed :-)
  450. jonas’ et ceterum censeo NAT delendam esse
  451. Holger Licaon_Kter: Anyway, file transfer with old-school clients, or with Conversations if the file size exceeds the HTTP Upload limit.
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  455. Licaon_Kter Ok, albeit given the rate of connections and dates, looked phishy, will look at logs again, maybe it was legit. In theory it's limited to local users so it should be safe. Maybe the fact that it's hosted on `proxy.mydomain.tld` attracts unwanted attention...
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  468. Menel High, non standard port helps too to reduce noise
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  571. tom What does it matter? It's not like they are able to use it without a key from your server
  572. tom Background noise of the internet
  573. tom I run ssh on standard ports
  574. tom Key-based auth only
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  924. mimi89999 Can somebody tell chapril that `dns.chapril.org` is very slow to respond or does not respond at all?
  925. mimi89999 neox
  926. neox has joined
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  928. mimi89999 I can't connect to them
  929. neox mimi89999, we're rebooting the whole cluster
  930. Mel has joined
  931. mimi89999 OK. Why?
  932. neox mimi89999, kernel+libssl update
  933. mimi89999 No announcement on the MUC?
  934. neox Well I did an annoucement
  935. neox In french x)
  936. mimi89999 When?
  937. neox 19:40
  938. dsv has left
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  940. neox And I did an annoucement via mod_announce too
  941. mimi89999 https://lebihan.pl/xmpp-upload/index.php/26c0d2ae-a410-4d8f-857d-68f60cd6b7b5/Capture%20d%e2%80%99%c3%a9cran%20du%202021-02-18%2021-43-00.png
  942. mimi89999 OK
  943. neox mimi89999, Next time I'll do in english clear and loud 😉
  944. mimi89999 I speak french, but I don't see it
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