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tom
raucao: realtime collaboration doesn't belong in a document rendering system
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tom
Nor does javascript
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tom
And javascript is an absolutely terrible language for implementing realtime event driven collaboration in
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tom
The problem is what your trying to use here for collaboration and feedback is inacessable to a large amount of people
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tom
I'm telling you now about it
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tom
Imagine if some big corpo like Facebook came around here, with a modified spec server and client
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tom
That was completely incompatible with everything else and did not gracefully degrade
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tom
It's only expected to get some pushback
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tom
Especially from the people who need special accommodations who the XMPP equivalent of "just use chrome" won't work
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tom
Javascript isn't standard and it doesn't gracefully degrade
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tom
And it's probably just about the worst scripting language not make as a joke
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tom
The only thing worse that comes to mind is brainfuck
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tom
Imagine if a person in a wheelchair tried to enter a shop, and bouncer at the door put his hand out blocking the path and yelled "YOU NEED LEGS TO ENTER THIS STORE"
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tom
That's what your doing when you do the html equivalent of <noscript>YOU NEED JAVASCRIPT YOU USE THIS APP</noscript>
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tom
Even OMEMO (XEP-0284) can graefully degrade to plaintext
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tom
Altough argument it does a terrible job of it
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tom
Although arguably it does a terrible job of it
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tom
Really though, the problem with google chrome and web2.0 webshit is that it is practically a completely different system with completely different scope for some stupid reason running over the same wire protocol
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tom
That is incompatible with each other
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tom
And no raucao the whatwg is not a place to go to discuss this, that's a place to go to have google, your supreme corporate overlord dictate to you an impossible to implement spec
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tom
That changes every 2 weeks
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tom
The w3c did not make html5
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tom
They made HTML4 and XHTML
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tom
They just tongue-in-cheekingly snapshot whatwg's html5 every now and then
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tom
Copyright © WHATWG (Apple, Google, Mozilla, Microsoft)
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tom
If you make to make a website, make a website
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tom
If you want to make a google chrome app
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tom
That's something completely different
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tom
God i hope that never happens to the XSF
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tom
There is a XEP for what service operators should fill in for XMPP servers https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0157.html
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Menel
Constructive would be to tell what software to use instead to do that collaboration. Isy there something similar? If the only goal is to take the site down then "the bouncer" will $Kik everyone out"
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mjk
One big fat *+1* to xhtml
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mjk
> Constructive would be to tell what software to use instead to do that collaboration. Isy there something similar? Git? :3
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mjk
Also, if my memory serves me right, _ther's a xep for that_✎ -
mjk
Also, if my memory serves me right, _there's a xep for that_ ✏
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mjk
Or at least a gajim plugin
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Menel
XHTML is fine. But be realistic, they won't write something with that now just like that by themselves.. If there is nothing already done..
- Kris mumbles something about running Javascript in the browser being no different from any other kind of autoupdated software...
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pintosesk
See a need, fill a need...
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pintosesk
To quote a cheeky 2005 movie.
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pintosesk
> Kris mumbles something about running Javascript in the browser being no different from any other kind of autoupdated software... There's a difference between autoupdated software, and an autoupdated *protocol*.
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mimi89999
Ge0rG, why on yax.im there is no `mod_proxy65` and no `mod_vcard_legacy`?
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pintosesk
Especially one that moves fast and breaks itself.
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Ge0rG
mimi89999: because I'm allergic to untested modules, and there was a time when I had to pay for data traffic on yax.im
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mimi89999
What happened?
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Licaon_Kter
What was the usecase for 65? I keep getting connections on its port and I don't thing my users actually do that...
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mimi89999
Jingle FT behind NAT
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Licaon_Kter
I had some of those but...don't think there where used that much though
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Holger
Not just to circumvent NAT but also for performance (avoid splitting up the file into tiny chunks and base64-encoding them).
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jonas’
(performance compared to IBB, not performacne compared to a direct non-NATed connection✎ -
jonas’
(performance compared to IBB, not performacne compared to a direct non-NATed connection) ✏
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Holger
Ah indeed :-)
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jonas’
et ceterum censeo NAT delendam esse
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Holger
Licaon_Kter: Anyway, file transfer with old-school clients, or with Conversations if the file size exceeds the HTTP Upload limit.
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Licaon_Kter
Ok, albeit given the rate of connections and dates, looked phishy, will look at logs again, maybe it was legit. In theory it's limited to local users so it should be safe. Maybe the fact that it's hosted on `proxy.mydomain.tld` attracts unwanted attention...
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Menel
High, non standard port helps too to reduce noise
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tom
What does it matter? It's not like they are able to use it without a key from your server
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tom
Background noise of the internet
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tom
I run ssh on standard ports
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tom
Key-based auth only
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mimi89999
Can somebody tell chapril that `dns.chapril.org` is very slow to respond or does not respond at all?
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mimi89999
neox
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mimi89999
I can't connect to them
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neox
mimi89999, we're rebooting the whole cluster
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mimi89999
OK. Why?
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neox
mimi89999, kernel+libssl update
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mimi89999
No announcement on the MUC?
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neox
Well I did an annoucement
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neox
In french x)
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mimi89999
When?
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neox
19:40
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neox
And I did an annoucement via mod_announce too
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mimi89999
https://lebihan.pl/xmpp-upload/index.php/26c0d2ae-a410-4d8f-857d-68f60cd6b7b5/Capture%20d%e2%80%99%c3%a9cran%20du%202021-02-18%2021-43-00.png
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mimi89999
OK
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neox
mimi89999, Next time I'll do in english clear and loud 😉
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mimi89999
I speak french, but I don't see it