XMPP Service Operators - 2021-03-03


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  139. tom Not me, it's Go reliance is concerning
  140. tom Seems like a liability
  141. allie tom, Go reliance? how is that a liability?
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  143. tom Well, Go is Google's own language for Google's own purposes. I don't work at or for Google, so my personal needs and goals will not always align with Google's. Google has final say over the direction of the language not a community board like FreeBSD. Also I don't just Google Corporation's reputation for BDFL management like OpenBSD or Python's Guido. Google also says that they purposefully gimped their language because they assume they are so much smarter than everyone else https://kill-9.xyz/go.webm I generally distrust a 'we know better than everyone' mentality.
  144. tom ^that's Rob Pike
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  148. allie ok
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  367. MattJ I removed the moderation flag from the room. Folks with on-topic things to say who don't currently have voice, feel free to rejoin the room to regain it, or PM me
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  382. ernst.on.tour Okay, working again 😀
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  413. benk Where is the room where moderation/federation discussion would be on topic?
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  425. Menel benk: maybe here xmpp:chat@joinjabber.org?join
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  427. pep. yeah we're talking about that, ideas welcome
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  482. kikuchiyo > Would be nice for Conversations to gain a /ignore feature > You're telling me > I'd love to see that At least one thing all can agree on. It should be accompanied with a counter on how many people are ignoring you in a MUC, otherwise this is just shadowban.
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  484. Licaon_Kter kikuchiyo: pls move this discussion there instead
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  508. kikuchiyo Licaon_Kter: ok
  509. kikuchiyo Sorry just read the massive backlog...
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  516. tom massive?
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  829. archerships FYI, I've created a MUC for free speech issues related to XMPP: xmpp-and-free-speech@conference.movim.eu
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  834. archerships MUC description: "XMPP and Free Speech is for the discussion of free speech issues related to XMPP servers. People of all political persuasions are welcome. Both technical and cultural/political discussion is welcome. Please be polite and kind at all times, even if others are not. Rude behavior, threats (including legal threats), and other misbehavior may result in muting or banning. This is a public list that might be publicly archived, so please be cautious about saying anything that might get you in trouble with your local government or employer."
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  836. MattJ Excellent! :)
  837. jonas’ :+1:
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  888. christian archerships: maybe also mention that god is punishing people who misbehave.
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  892. Wiktor Haha not everyone is christian
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  897. christian Yes but you cover more people ;-)
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  901. frostburger "(a) God" would cover more except people like me
  902. frostburger Either way fairy tales
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  905. frostburger archerships: "The MUC is for members only"
  906. christian Yes but if you mention god, government, employers, family and wife you catch almost all.
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  910. christian If you do not have a god or a job you can at least have a wife
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  912. frostburger Except lonely Martians
  913. MattJ Ok folks, off-topic
  914. frostburger Well, I should go. I was here to check the complaint if you are way into conspiracies by reading the history. Confirmed.
  915. frostburger /pops
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  985. archerships FYI, if you tried to join XMPP and Free Speech and got a "members only" message, it should be fixed now.
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  999. archerships Also here's a better join link: xmpp:xmpp-and-free-speech@conference.movim.eu?join
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  1116. purplebeetroot Are you serious people? I'm getting harrased, receiving request to better kill myself...and more of the really fun stuff, and you think it's a good idea to support neo-fascists such as archership on their mission to find a new space for those parler and gab user. wtf. Do some research befor giving your +1 to such harmful individuals. And no, stop putting the burden of such research onto the victims of their discusting culture. It is your responsibility.
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  1124. purplebeetroot Also: why the fuxk is Alex still not banned from this room???
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  1127. MattJ purplebeetroot, this room is for discussions between operators of XMPP services, not for discussing political views
  1128. MattJ Currently you're the one breaking that rule, and I don't want you to be the first to be banned
  1129. Licaon_Kter purplebeetroot: there's the room link above, go there pls
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  1138. purplebeetroot So the sorry line is: You welcome abusers, and you make this space uncomfortable for the victims. If you insists this is not a matter server operators should care of, you choose to target the victim in support for the abuser. Go a head. You will choose, what ever is more inline with your political position. I'm watching.
  1139. jayteeuk has joined
  1140. MattJ And in case you think that I think the behaviour you describe is ok, I don't. But this is not the venue to discuss or resolve such serious issues, it's just a MUC for XMPP service operators....
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  1143. MattJ Sigh
  1144. MattJ This has gone on long enough
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  1147. ernst.on.tour MattJ: Hi Matt, he was doing same thing a few days ago in Conversations-muc. But "we" could "defense" him. I try this also on 2021-03-01 at 21:47UTC in this muc but saddly I was not able to PM you
  1148. Menel has joined
  1149. MattJ I'm afraid they had warnings, and I'm fed up of moderating a MUC that has turned into some political battleground
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  1151. MattJ Serious issues as they described should be reported to the authorities, not to random chatrooms on the internet, that literally will solve nothing
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  1164. southerntofu benk, pep. the subject has been brought up several times in chat@joinjabber.org so maybe starting a working group on this specific issue makes sense?
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  1168. moparisthebest to try to steer back on-topic, who was it looking for an IRC -> MUC bridge the other day ? Kris ? did you end up finding anything good ?
  1169. ben bitlbee works well enough
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  1172. moparisthebest no, uh, to host something that looks like an IRC server to IRC clients, but actually lets them join MUCs with it (transparently to them)
  1173. MattJ I heard rumour that this is theoretically possible with bitlbee
  1174. Kris no it seems yours it still the relative best
  1175. MattJ but that it may be broken or something
  1176. moparisthebest ugh that's sad
  1177. MattJ some multi-user mode or something
  1178. Kris bitlebee does have jabber support, but you need a jabber account and it is more like a puppet gateway
  1179. moparisthebest (sad that my abandoned hack of a python script is still the relative best, that is)
  1180. Kris maybe motivation to write a proper one? 😉
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  1183. southerntofu seriously though if some folks want to start working on proper interop between IRC/matrix/jabber/acitivitypub in a statically typed language (to avoid bad surprises) i'm sure it's possible to get grants for that and get paid to work on it full-time
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  1186. moparisthebest Kris, it's still languishing deep down on my list of things to write yes :P I keep hoping someone else will beat me to it
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  1189. moparisthebest southerntofu, such as from where ? I think I only know of nlnet, and generally those seem to be grants for existing projects. for this, I'd want to use Rust and only Rust, personally
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  1230. southerntofu rust sounds like the best candidate for that but yes i was thinking NLNet mostly
  1231. southerntofu of course you need some PoC to show for application ;)
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  1234. southerntofu but mapping social vocabulary/protocols as a library is something that's needed on all fronts hell maybe even matrix foundation could drop a bill ;)
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  1236. moparisthebest I think their end-goal is user lock-in though
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  1248. Kris I think their end goal is to earn some money and they don't particulalry care how 😉 My guess is actually that their government contractor arm will slowly take over the entire operation and individual users etc. will feel left out and leave again.
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  1251. Kris lots of colateral damage with 3rd party client developers along the way
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  1253. Kris but some might switch to xmpp with the help of StanzaJS
  1254. southerntofu Kris, it's not impossible, but it's pure speculation at the moment.. in any case interop is invaluable between all networks..
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  1256. Kris yeah, but lets be ready for the eventuality 😉
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  1259. moparisthebest but, all-in-one things usually end badly (think pidgin) where as things with one very specific job can be *very good* (think biboumi)
  1260. moparisthebest so personally what I'd write is a very specific thing that looks like an IRC server to IRC clients, but lets them join XMPP MUCs seamlessly, basically exactly like xmpp-ircd is now, except you know, not python and actually good
  1261. Kris yes something like that would be great, but maybe easier achived by taking an actual lighweight IRC daemon like Oragono and componentize it.
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  1263. Kris maybe there is a rust IRC daemon?
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  1265. southerntofu moparisthebest, uninformed opinion here but i don't believe protocol-agnostic abstractions is the problem with pidgin
  1266. southerntofu well with libpurple anyway
  1267. moparisthebest certainly not the *only* problem
  1268. southerntofu if the abstractions are well thought-through for a certain number of protocols then it's not a problem
  1269. moparisthebest a guy in my IRC channel is working on an rust IRC daemon right now actually :)
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  1272. southerntofu it is a problem when you start an abstraction for a certain kind of protocol and then have to implement it for protocols that behave in wildly different ways
  1273. moparisthebest I'm hoping to be able to use it for this shortly-ish
  1274. Kris cool, try to nudge him towards designing it in a componentizable way from the beginning. xmpp-rs supports components?
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  1277. southerntofu so for a limited number of protocols (4) mapping a restricted number of features is really not a problem.. it's just a lot of work
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  1282. southerntofu but certainly a statically-typed language like ocaml/haskell/rust is much better suited to this task than pidgin/libpurple's C
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  1284. neelix Purplebeetroot why are you acting like a retard? You fucking gay nigger gorilla.
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  1286. moparisthebest neelix, grow up, none of that was appropriate
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  1289. neelix It is appropriate moparisthebest
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  1292. MattJ People make me sad
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  1295. southerntofu s/People/neo-nazis/
  1296. southerntofu congratulations on reacting swiftly though :)
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  1298. MattJ Whatever you want to call them, I'm not sure that is an accurate label for 100% of the people that make me sad
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  1301. Kris mostly stupid trolls and not real nazis
  1302. southerntofu MattJ, a lot of other people make me sad as well, but there's still a lot of really cool people around
  1303. southerntofu Kris, well let's not dive into off-topic again but i'm not convinced ;)
  1304. MattJ Yes, we have other venues now :)
  1305. southerntofu (there's plenty of ways to troll including non-nazi trolling :P)
  1306. moparisthebest well, I guess we at least have something to celebrate eh? XMPP is popular now
  1307. moparisthebest used to be a bunch of nerds pining that it wasn't popular enough, that's no longer the problem
  1308. MattJ s/now/again/ :D
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  1311. southerntofu shit MattJ i told you you shouldn't have started this "Make XMPP great again" campaign with red caps ;)
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  1313. southerntofu </sarcasm>
  1314. Kris 🤣️
  1315. moparisthebest this is all that pesky guy that started that snikket thing's fault I'm sure
  1316. moparisthebest these young whippersnappers with their "easy onboarding" and such
  1317. vanitasvitae Snikket made XMPP approachable to idiots!!!111
  1318. MattJ Snikket has been accused of so many things now, I'm sure we can add that to the list :)
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  1320. moparisthebest back in my day we had to compile libraries to get on XMPP
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  1322. vanitasvitae :D
  1323. MattJ vanitasvitae, it also made it unapproachable. A recent comment on Reddit: "Snikket looks good. Shame it's still invite-only."
  1324. MattJ I tried to reply, twice, and then gave up
  1325. moparisthebest /facepalm
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  1328. MattJ I understand the confusion, and I think it will get clearer next time I revamp the website
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  1334. vanitasvitae Plz invite me to teh snicketz!
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  1336. MattJ $100
  1337. vanitasvitae Aah thats the way to get money into xmpp I see :P
  1338. southerntofu vanitasvitae, i'll give you invite code after you click a few advertisements on my blog ;) ;)
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  1344. southerntofu reminds me of this very shady peertube instance (and other services) i just found on ploud.fr which asks for a lot of private info and explicitly mentions advertisement on your mobile phone in the terms & conditions..
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