XMPP Service Operators - 2021-03-03

Not me, it's Go reliance is concerning

Seems like a liability

tom, Go reliance? how is that a liability?

Well, Go is Google's own language for Google's own purposes. I don't work at or for Google, so my personal needs and goals will not always align with Google's. Google has final say over the direction of the language not a community board like FreeBSD. Also I don't just Google Corporation's reputation for BDFL management like OpenBSD or Python's Guido. Google also says that they purposefully gimped their language because they assume they are so much smarter than everyone else https://kill-9.xyz/go.webm I generally distrust a 'we know better than everyone' mentality.

^that's Rob Pike

ok

I removed the moderation flag from the room. Folks with on-topic things to say who don't currently have voice, feel free to rejoin the room to regain it, or PM me

Okay, working again 😀

Where is the room where moderation/federation discussion would be on topic?

benk: maybe here xmpp:chat@joinjabber.org?join

yeah we're talking about that, ideas welcome

> Would be nice for Conversations to gain a /ignore feature > You're telling me > I'd love to see that At least one thing all can agree on. It should be accompanied with a counter on how many people are ignoring you in a MUC, otherwise this is just shadowban.

kikuchiyo: pls move this discussion there instead

Licaon_Kter: ok

Sorry just read the massive backlog...

massive?

FYI, I've created a MUC for free speech issues related to XMPP: xmpp-and-free-speech@conference.movim.eu

MUC description: "XMPP and Free Speech is for the discussion of free speech issues related to XMPP servers. People of all political persuasions are welcome. Both technical and cultural/political discussion is welcome. Please be polite and kind at all times, even if others are not. Rude behavior, threats (including legal threats), and other misbehavior may result in muting or banning. This is a public list that might be publicly archived, so please be cautious about saying anything that might get you in trouble with your local government or employer."

Excellent! :)

:+1:

archerships: maybe also mention that god is punishing people who misbehave.

Haha not everyone is christian

Yes but you cover more people ;-)

"(a) God" would cover more except people like me

Either way fairy tales

archerships: "The MUC is for members only"

Yes but if you mention god, government, employers, family and wife you catch almost all.

If you do not have a god or a job you can at least have a wife

Except lonely Martians

Ok folks, off-topic

Well, I should go. I was here to check the complaint if you are way into conspiracies by reading the history. Confirmed.

/pops

FYI, if you tried to join XMPP and Free Speech and got a "members only" message, it should be fixed now.

Also here's a better join link: xmpp:xmpp-and-free-speech@conference.movim.eu?join

Are you serious people? I'm getting harrased, receiving request to better kill myself...and more of the really fun stuff, and you think it's a good idea to support neo-fascists such as archership on their mission to find a new space for those parler and gab user. wtf. Do some research befor giving your +1 to such harmful individuals. And no, stop putting the burden of such research onto the victims of their discusting culture. It is your responsibility.

Also: why the fuxk is Alex still not banned from this room???

purplebeetroot, this room is for discussions between operators of XMPP services, not for discussing political views

Currently you're the one breaking that rule, and I don't want you to be the first to be banned

purplebeetroot: there's the room link above, go there pls

So the sorry line is: You welcome abusers, and you make this space uncomfortable for the victims. If you insists this is not a matter server operators should care of, you choose to target the victim in support for the abuser. Go a head. You will choose, what ever is more inline with your political position. I'm watching.

And in case you think that I think the behaviour you describe is ok, I don't. But this is not the venue to discuss or resolve such serious issues, it's just a MUC for XMPP service operators....

Sigh

This has gone on long enough

MattJ: Hi Matt, he was doing same thing a few days ago in Conversations-muc. But "we" could "defense" him. I try this also on 2021-03-01 at 21:47UTC in this muc but saddly I was not able to PM you

I'm afraid they had warnings, and I'm fed up of moderating a MUC that has turned into some political battleground

Serious issues as they described should be reported to the authorities, not to random chatrooms on the internet, that literally will solve nothing

benk, pep. the subject has been brought up several times in chat@joinjabber.org so maybe starting a working group on this specific issue makes sense?

to try to steer back on-topic, who was it looking for an IRC -> MUC bridge the other day ? Kris ? did you end up finding anything good ?

bitlbee works well enough

no, uh, to host something that looks like an IRC server to IRC clients, but actually lets them join MUCs with it (transparently to them)

I heard rumour that this is theoretically possible with bitlbee

no it seems yours it still the relative best

but that it may be broken or something

ugh that's sad

some multi-user mode or something

bitlebee does have jabber support, but you need a jabber account and it is more like a puppet gateway

(sad that my abandoned hack of a python script is still the relative best, that is)

maybe motivation to write a proper one? 😉

seriously though if some folks want to start working on proper interop between IRC/matrix/jabber/acitivitypub in a statically typed language (to avoid bad surprises) i'm sure it's possible to get grants for that and get paid to work on it full-time

Kris, it's still languishing deep down on my list of things to write yes :P I keep hoping someone else will beat me to it

southerntofu, such as from where ? I think I only know of nlnet, and generally those seem to be grants for existing projects. for this, I'd want to use Rust and only Rust, personally

rust sounds like the best candidate for that but yes i was thinking NLNet mostly

of course you need some PoC to show for application ;)

but mapping social vocabulary/protocols as a library is something that's needed on all fronts hell maybe even matrix foundation could drop a bill ;)

I think their end-goal is user lock-in though

I think their end goal is to earn some money and they don't particulalry care how 😉 My guess is actually that their government contractor arm will slowly take over the entire operation and individual users etc. will feel left out and leave again.

lots of colateral damage with 3rd party client developers along the way

but some might switch to xmpp with the help of StanzaJS

Kris, it's not impossible, but it's pure speculation at the moment.. in any case interop is invaluable between all networks..

yeah, but lets be ready for the eventuality 😉

but, all-in-one things usually end badly (think pidgin) where as things with one very specific job can be *very good* (think biboumi)

so personally what I'd write is a very specific thing that looks like an IRC server to IRC clients, but lets them join XMPP MUCs seamlessly, basically exactly like xmpp-ircd is now, except you know, not python and actually good

yes something like that would be great, but maybe easier achived by taking an actual lighweight IRC daemon like Oragono and componentize it.

maybe there is a rust IRC daemon?

moparisthebest, uninformed opinion here but i don't believe protocol-agnostic abstractions is the problem with pidgin

well with libpurple anyway

certainly not the *only* problem

if the abstractions are well thought-through for a certain number of protocols then it's not a problem

a guy in my IRC channel is working on an rust IRC daemon right now actually :)

it is a problem when you start an abstraction for a certain kind of protocol and then have to implement it for protocols that behave in wildly different ways

I'm hoping to be able to use it for this shortly-ish

cool, try to nudge him towards designing it in a componentizable way from the beginning. xmpp-rs supports components?

so for a limited number of protocols (4) mapping a restricted number of features is really not a problem.. it's just a lot of work

but certainly a statically-typed language like ocaml/haskell/rust is much better suited to this task than pidgin/libpurple's C

Purplebeetroot why are you acting like a retard? You fucking gay nigger gorilla.

neelix, grow up, none of that was appropriate

It is appropriate moparisthebest

People make me sad

s/People/neo-nazis/

congratulations on reacting swiftly though :)

Whatever you want to call them, I'm not sure that is an accurate label for 100% of the people that make me sad

mostly stupid trolls and not real nazis

MattJ, a lot of other people make me sad as well, but there's still a lot of really cool people around

Kris, well let's not dive into off-topic again but i'm not convinced ;)

Yes, we have other venues now :)

(there's plenty of ways to troll including non-nazi trolling :P)

well, I guess we at least have something to celebrate eh? XMPP is popular now

used to be a bunch of nerds pining that it wasn't popular enough, that's no longer the problem

s/now/again/ :D

shit MattJ i told you you shouldn't have started this "Make XMPP great again" campaign with red caps ;)

</sarcasm>

🤣️

this is all that pesky guy that started that snikket thing's fault I'm sure

these young whippersnappers with their "easy onboarding" and such

Snikket made XMPP approachable to idiots!!!111

Snikket has been accused of so many things now, I'm sure we can add that to the list :)

back in my day we had to compile libraries to get on XMPP

:D

vanitasvitae, it also made it unapproachable. A recent comment on Reddit: "Snikket looks good. Shame it's still invite-only."

I tried to reply, twice, and then gave up

/facepalm

I understand the confusion, and I think it will get clearer next time I revamp the website

Plz invite me to teh snicketz!

$100

Aah thats the way to get money into xmpp I see :P

vanitasvitae, i'll give you invite code after you click a few advertisements on my blog ;) ;)

reminds me of this very shady peertube instance (and other services) i just found on ploud.fr which asks for a lot of private info and explicitly mentions advertisement on your mobile phone in the terms & conditions..