XMPP Service Operators - 2021-03-08


  1. archerships

    Speaking for myself, I like the Reddit style of hosting many conversations at once. I can quickly scan the topics in a subreddit, and read and or post only on the topics I'm interested in, and ignore the rest. Here, all the topics and their comments are intermingled in a single stream. Does anyone know of XMPP client that presents the conversations in Reddit-like format?

  2. moparisthebest

    archerships: muc doesn't even support such a thing at the moment so no

  3. Licaon_Kter

    Threading? There might be a XEP for that

  4. archerships

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0201.html

  5. moparisthebest

    Not one that anyone implements I think, glad to be corrected

  6. archerships

    It seems that client that following XEP-0201 could do so, but it appears that no current clients offer that feature (I've looked at Movim, Gajim, Psi+, Dino, Libervia, and Conversations.)

  7. Licaon_Kter

    archerships: it's hard to do, UI wise...

  8. moparisthebest

    mattermost does that, it's only barely useable

  9. Licaon_Kter

    moparisthebest: you mean the new one that's WIP? Yeah, saw some videos and looks odd and confusing

  10. moparisthebest

    oh no, I meant how mattermost has done it for years

  11. Licaon_Kter

    That's...yeah...

  12. Licaon_Kter

    archerships: you issue is with post indentation to separate threads?

  13. Licaon_Kter

    archerships: your issue is with post indentation to separate threads?

  14. christian

    archerships: i am not sure but i think pidgin may have a plugin for threading

  15. MattJ

    A reminder that this channel is primarily for XMPP service operators. At times I may toggle the room configuration to mute non-members by default. If you're a service operator, please consider adding your JID to the contact details published by your server (XEP-0157) for easy verification. Otherwise, feel free to PM me and tell me which server you operate.

  16. MattJ

    And note that running a server does not exempt you from the rules, of course.

  17. ernst.on.tour

    MattJ: đź‘Ť

  18. frd

    What is the point of following your stupid rules, if you ban operators for no reason, if you did not like someone else's statements? Is this an ass kissing club or a place where anyone can freely express their opinion?

  19. frd

    I invite everyone to leave this chat and create a free space for communication between operators, where no one will interfere with conversations and interaction.

  20. MattJ

    It's neither. There are many places available where people can freely express their opinions online, I'm fine with this venue not being one of them, if it means we can keep the channel actually useful for its intended purpose (which it has not really been, recently)

  21. MattJ

    Yes, I invite anyone who wants to leave this chat to leave this chat and find somewhere else. I really do :)

  22. frd

    >Yes, I invite anyone who wants to leave this chat to leave this chat and find somewhere else. I really do Yes, an interesting thought. Do you need a community of operators at all. I understand this is important to you, because you are the developer of the prosody server, but I don’t know for others.

  23. jonas’

    I find a community of operators useful

  24. jonas’

    in general, not just XMPP

  25. jonas’

    to fix intra-service issues bilaterally or to investigate whether an issue is between two servers or between one server and the rest of the world, for example

  26. jonas’

    and to bypass stupid mod_block_strangers.

  27. frd

    > Because of that 404.city was always at the top of the list of open-reg XMPP servers tom, If you were attentive, you will notice that 404.city is not included in this list

  28. frd

    jonas’ Yes, I agree. This is sometimes useful when there are federation s2s problems

  29. jonas’

    however, I don’t think that such an operators room must allow for expression of any kind of thought. It’s sufficient if it allows discussion of the technical stuff.

  30. frd

    Then the conference rules should clearly indicate the acceptable conference topics. No one else can read your thoughts MattJ Communication between operators about federated interaction, this is a large number of topics. I consider non-professionalism, responding to complaints without checking the identity of the one who sends the complaint, when there is suspicion, the person is this troll, who sends complaints against himself. I said this in an emotional way, but this is not a reason for a ban. This is the subject of the conference. > A place for civil discussion between XMPP server operators about the XMPP network

  31. jonas’

    frd, you’re making assumptions about a process you did not observe completely.

  32. Licaon_Kter

    ...we don't know frd''s identity, your sure jonas’ ? :)

  33. Licaon_Kter

    ...we don't know frd''s identity, you're sure jonas’ ? :)

  34. MattJ

    :)

  35. jonas’

    Licaon_Kter, I have no idea about frds identity and maybe I’m reading too much into it :)

  36. jonas’

    however, the only thing where a (serious) complaint was discussed here in recent time involved me, and to that I can just say whoever claims that no verification took place makes (incorrect) assumptions about a process they did not observe completely.

  37. frd

    jonas’ You do not know the prehistory and a thousand blocked accounts. This chat contains a troll that speaks from five accounts.Those who have been in this chat for a long time remember how for half a year, one person turned the chat into a trash heap.

  38. Licaon_Kter

    frd: which year exactly?

  39. MattJ

    So you think this channel has become a trash heap, but you also want no rules and free expression of opinion?

  40. jonas’

    frd, also, re "acceptable topics", a set of rules which make things clearer will be published later on.

  41. MattJ

    I'd love to not have to moderate this room, I really don't have time for it

  42. MattJ

    But I have to agree that it has got very bad recently

  43. MattJ

    I would close it down, but I (and many others) agree that it serves a useful purpose

  44. tom

    Wha » <frd> > Because of that 404.city was always at the top of the list of open-reg XMPP servers » tom, If you were attentive, you will notice that 404.city is not included in this list maybe not now, i don't know but it used to be in the old site

  45. tom

    Tbh though i think it's a good thing in 404.city wasn't in that list because they block and reject messages from users who aren't on 404.city or subscribed

  46. tom

    Leads to federation problems

  47. frd

    Licaon_Kter January 2020 - August 2020 Sometimes 50-100 accounts were blocked per day. I have reason to believe that the complaint was sent by the same Internet troll for its own actions. Usually people write complaints about contact details, not group chats. He wrote here with the aim of arranging a provocation.

  48. tom

    I get why, large target for spam but still

  49. tom

    MattJ: I appreciate what you do here

  50. frd

    >Tbh though i think it's a good thing in 404.city wasn't in that list because they block and reject messages from users who aren't on 404.city or subscribe I am ready to explain this policy, would you like the answer? This answer is very tough.

  51. tom

    Your the one who introduced me to XMPP, and I've gotten a lot of use out of this chat, growing to run my own XMPP server with lots of users, which in turns has introduced others. At least ~70 other people to XMPP

  52. tom

    Perhaps more but those are about how many active participants in the public open chats i have

  53. tom

    Sure frd

  54. tom

    I've gotten the spam too, but the spammers instead just opt for sending unsolicted roster requests

  55. tom

    Repeatily

  56. frd

    There are only two ways to deal with spam. 1) Block messages from strangers 2) Analyze messages We believe Approach 1 is more correct.

  57. Ellenor Malik

    mopar is no car

  58. frd

    tom. Privacy policy 404.city prevents us from looking at the message logs! (We have no message logs at all)

  59. tom

    Frd perhaps this is just a natural problem with when a single host gets too big?

  60. tom

    But if you can't examine incoming stanzas to protect the operation of the network, your kind of shooting yourself in the foot

  61. frd

    It is worth noting that I mean message logs, not an archive of messages, which is stored for 7 days. Yes, the administrator is also prohibited from viewing this archive.

  62. jonas’

    mind that "not storing" and "analyzing" are not mutually exclusive

  63. tom

    Even when I worked for an ISP, we read the email stock in the message queue if the queue got too large and indicated a problem

  64. tom

    Mailq

  65. tom

    And postcat

  66. tom

    Also when 404.city responds to LEA requests from both US and GRU what's the point really?

  67. frd

    We do not touch user correspondence. We are forbidden to watch it. To search for incoming spam, you need to watch the correspondence. We are not allowed to view the correspondence. It is better to turn off messages from strangers than watch the correspondence.

  68. tom

    What point is there to turn off messages from strangers when the spammers just send unsolicited roster requests instead?

  69. tom

    I think it's a foolish policy the hurts federation, especially for users new to XMPP. There are people i chat with i don't want to share my presence info 24/7

  70. frd

    MattJ To begin with, I suggest unblocking me, because writing from a web client is very inconvenient.

  71. Martin

    > What point is there to turn off messages from strangers when the spammers just send unsolicited roster requests instead? I tend to say they do not really federate if they block strangers. It really turned me crazy when I could not reach creep.im to tell them about their spammer but got spammed with captcha requests by the admin.

  72. MattJ

    frd, then I'm confused. Do you want to be part of this channel or not?

  73. mathieui

    (I would not count "automated processing of inbound and outbound messages" as "touching user correspondence)

  74. MattJ

    First you complain about me moderating the MUC, then you complain about the MUC not being moderated enough. First you say you're going to leave for somewhere else, now you want to be unbanned.

  75. MattJ

    I'm totally okay with unbanning you if you're totally okay with not insulting people

  76. MattJ

    and then we can slowly get this channel back to its correct purpose

  77. MattJ

    As jonas’ said earlier, there will be some additional guidance published soon regarding appropriate discussions for this channel

  78. MattJ

    I would like to think that most people already understand what is and isn't appropriate, but the guidance will make it clear

  79. jonas’

    *nods*

  80. frd

    MattJ Okey So unblock

  81. MattJ

    Done

  82. Ge0rG

    > Privacy policy 404.city prevents us from looking at the message logs! You could update your privacy policy to allow manual review of messages that were automatically flagged as spam.

  83. tom

    That's true

  84. Ge0rG

    I have that in the yax.im Privacy Policy at https://yaxim.org/yax.im/privacy/ > Server Logs: Message content of messages automatically flagged as potential spam. These messages might undergo manual review.