Link Mauvejonas’, never encountered that, did you report it?
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MartinReporting to jitsi-meet is quite pointless as they will throw away all your efforts for the report by stalebotting…
jonas’Link Mauve, no, never bothered. I don’t want to interact with a discourse nor did the issue tracker seem really open to reports of non-(jits-)standard use.✎
jonas’Link Mauve, no, never bothered. I don’t want to interact with a discourse nor did the issue tracker seem really open to reports of non-(jitsi-)standard use. ✏
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tomMartin: what is stalebotting
MartinIf they do not touch that issue for weeks or so it'll be automatically be closed by a bot which makes it a "won't fix" -> closed.
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tomSo they are WONTFIXing interoperability issues
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MartinSo if it's something which they do not consider important enough to take immediate action your issue get's automatically closed.
MartinWhich is kind of a slap in your face as you took time to report and then it's not even a human telling you they won't fix it but just a bot which closes after time x has passed.
jonas’yep
jonas’I am immediately discouraged from reporting when I see such a staleclose bot
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Link MauveOh right, I’ve seen that on other projects which I definitely avoid to contribute to.
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Link MauveI didn’t know they did too. :|
Licaon_KterMartin:
> Which is kind of a slap in your face as you took time to report and then it's not even a human telling you they won't fix it but just a bot which closes after time x has passed.
That depends
You took time because you wanted
It's kinda odd to force them to do something now just because...
Better use the forum
MartinI don't want to force them to implement it and I am okay with "sorry, not on our roadmap, I'll close it" but stalebotting is something which I really don't like.
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MartinAnd I might use a proper forum but not that disgust thing.
MartinAnyway, you don't need to convince me of something, I just don't bother them with bug reports or ideas so they are not annoyed by me and I'm not annoyed by the stalebot → win-win.
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jonas’they don’t seem to have a stalebot though
jonas’looking at issues like https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/issues/8049
Licaon_KterThey don't need a stalebot to...ignore :))
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Licaon_KterEg. Look at the dates
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-sctp/pull/3
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-srtp/pull/12
These were needed for arm64 or CentOS6✎
Licaon_KterEg. Look at the dates
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-sctp/pull/3
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-srtp/pull/12
These were/are needed for arm64 or CentOS6 ✏
Licaon_KterOr this one, 2017!!!!
https://github.com/jitsi/lib-jitsi-meet/issues/512
And they "forget" to push tags
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/issues/6418
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jl4> What I like about Metronome is the wide support for XEPs and microblogging related stuff as it's being used with GNU Social (and PeerTube and JSXC). I'm not seeing a list of supported XEPs or much of any information, really, on Snikket's site.
i had some doubts, probably wrong ones... is Metronome an active project ?
thndrbvrJi4 Metronome is very active. xmpp:grimoire@muc.metronome.im?join Some of the website documentation was just updated yesterday, even!
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tomI really strongly disagree with mattj's snicket initiative. I get it, advertise it in a shady way like the techbros do to see if it's gets more popular, but it misses something. The big tech platforms aren't popular BECAUSE they advertise in a shady way, they are popular because most of their budget _IS_ advertising
tomDiscord is a piece of shit and everyone knew it from day one, but they payed a bunch of youtube "influencers" to shill it nonstop
tomSame thing for nordvpn
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jonas’tom: watch your language
tomWhat? Which word?
tomCrap?
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tomThe other thing about it is because that's who they choose to pay to shill, their platform is mostly filled with little kids and morons
tomAnd it's kind of gained a reputation for that
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MattJFWIW I don't care too much about people in this community liking or not liking Snikket, since it's not aimed at existing XMPP users (many are mostly happy with the status quo of the XMPP ecosystem)
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MattJJust as I'm happily using my console client, even though Snikket is not likely to ever have one :)
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MattJAnd apart from advertising (FWIW Snikket does not do paid advertising) there are real UX issues that need solving, such as XMPP being close to unusable on iOS (a situation that is thankfully improving)
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MattJBut many people here probably hate Apple, and think people should move to Linux phones before switching away from proprietary messaging silos
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MartinMattJ: I admire your patience, I would just have said "You don't have to agree…"
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thndrbvrBut tom, one thing to consider here is how non-techies will be communicating IRL or even between each other online. They will call it by it's brand name and there is one uniform application to use across platforms. Both arguments have merrit. Time will tell if the group behind Snikket loses their way or buys what some vulture capitalist feeds them and decides at the time that the money given to the project will overall be more beneficial. Not everyone/thing that sells out /gets bought out does so without regard to what they started. Often, they're reassured that their vision and wishes will remain. Just look at all the BS that happens in the music industry to everyone below the top 10% most popular artists. The industry promises them all these things, signs contracts, and afterwards the artists get screwed one way or another. I'm sure the same exact thing happens all the time with software. I.e. last.fm ???
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tomYou make a good argument thndrbvr, but in my experience non-techies usually ask their techie friends for their advice.
MattJthndrbvr, the legal structure behind the Snikket org intentionally has no shares, and is therefore incompatible with the VC fundraising route
Licaon_Ktertom:
> You make a good argument thndrbvr, but in my experience non-techies usually ask their techie friends for their advice.
Or they don't because WA is so easy so why bother with Snikkets or Siskins? _I know better than the paranoid techie_
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tomMattJ: I'm curious; What do you think of Purism's marketing?
Licaon_Kter> thndrbvr, the legal structure behind the Snikket org intentionally has no shares, and is therefore incompatible with the VC fundraising route
It's anonymous donors all the way down...
:)
thndrbvrIf they have any. Most "techies" these days are "gamers" who use discord. Lol. To most, a "techy" these days isn't someone who's generally a computer/GNU+Linux/FLOSS/hacker/etc enthusiast. It's just someone who can swap out a video card and set up a WiFi network.
Wiktor> _I know better than the paranoid techie_
Not sure if your friends really talk like that but in general I see people just don't care about privacy/security etc.
tomThat is sadly true thndrbvr
tomA large portion does care Wiktor, they just are suffering from defeatism and think privacy is some unrealisticlly unobtainable thing or idealistic and not practical
thndrbvrWiktor: People do often say they care but can't be bothered to truly do anything about it. So many people feel defeated and overwhelmed because these evils are so prevelent.
tomSo they give in
tomAlso
MattJtom, I'm not very familiar with their marketing. Their homepage looks okay.
thndrbvrPeople don't know where or how to begin and are often so entrenched that much of their information is already out there. It's their kids we have to save XD
Wiktorgood points. In my experience people would use "the snikkets and siskins" if they were reliable. Unfortunately the gold standard of Conversations seems to be still unmatched on other platforms (from my friends experience from 2020, yours may vary) :)
tomWhen they get swindled and tricked by fake privacy initiatives like firefox that claim how they are so anti "big browser" and "the little guys" whatnot, but then find out just how much telemetry is in firefox
tom
» <MattJ> tom, I'm not very familiar with their marketing. Their homepage looks okay.
Snicket kinda reminds me of Purism vs Pinephone's marketing
thndrbvrI'm still waiting for Purism to finish setting up their XMPP server.... They got Matrix-Synapse running and forked a client. I think they're waiting for Chatty to fully support everything? Never used it.
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tomAre they going to? I see a lot of negative comments directed towards them on the fediverse (activitypub) over that
tomGoing with matrix
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tomOr PopOS
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MattJtom, I personally follow Pine64's projects more closely (I was a backer of their initial SBC crowdfunding, long before Pinephone became a thing)
thndrbvrDoesn't Firefox handle most of it's own telemetry? And not share anything with anyone. I don't have much problem with that but, that's also because I feel like my browser setup and usage is a bit atypical so naturally I think it's the best and want them to make my way the default :P
tomPurism has their own competing thing with the pinephone, their own privacy phone
tomBut it's priced more in line with an iphone competitor than the pinephone
thndrbvrDisclaimer: I pre-ordered the L5 USA. I'm stoked.
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thndrbvrI think the Librem One promo video they made is amusing. They seem genuine with what they're doing. Pretty stubborn about keeping things... Pure. Open hardwre, open software, open protocols. They're losing a lot of money on software development and hardware testing to make it happen. At this point, I just hope they stay in business. COVID sux0rz.
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tomthndrbvr: no, https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/firefox.html
tomPings out to google
thndrbvrSo, that explains the forks.
tomThere's also the organizational problems written up here https://digdeeper.neocities.org/ghost/mozilla.html
tomYes i'm sure you can hack up a version with patches and user.jses but the point is they market themselves as a privacy respecting product, and then they do all that
thndrbvrThey get, what? 300,000,000 $US from Google? That kind of money tends to make most people feel like they owe someone something.
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tomAnd firefox by default is absolutely NOT private
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thndrbvrSo what do you think about Brave, then?
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tomIt's just reskinned google chromium with their own spying added on top
jonas’is there anything except "firefox" and "reskinned google chromium" out there?
thndrbvrYeah, Falkon and Epiphany from KDE and GNOME respectively.
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thndrbvrOh, Otter Browser I think is something else. Supposed to be like Opera was. Qutebrowser I think is another one if you're familiar with Vi keyboard shortcuts. Does Palemoon count? Forked from FF many years ago and has been growing in it's own direction with some compatibility for old style addons.
jonas’thndrbvr, falkon is built on QtWebEngine, which is Chromium✎
jonas’thndrbvr, falkon is built on QtWebEngine, which is hte Chromium engine ✏
tom
» <jonas’> is there anything except "firefox" and "reskinned google chromium" out there?
There's Netsurf
jonas’so it hinges on googles support at least
tomLinks2
tomXlinks2
tomAnd text browsers like w3m, lynx
tomThere's also dillo, but it's a bit weird
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tom
» <thndrbvr> Yeah, Falkon and Epiphany from KDE and GNOME respectively.
With an asterisk. Those are "QT WebEngine" which is Google Chromium with QT's own sauce
thndrbvrBrave you don't have to share data. Most stuff is done locally. They also don't share any information and seem to do a good job anonymizing data they do receive and I think they delete it after a short period.
tomOtter browser is qt webkit or qt webengine
tomWebkit at least isn't google chromium
tomIt's more closely related to apple safari
tomWhich is based on KHTML
jonas’the webkit integration of Qt is dead
tomPeople keep saying that but it's not like it's stopped existing
thndrbvrAnd last I heard Chromium had about 90% market share. So. Really, our best bet is to help Mozilla not go out of business because then the big G have a monopoly on the Internet even more so.
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tomThen we've lost thndrbvr if Mozilla Corporation is our best bet
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tomMozilla can go and die. They have been dead to me since 52.9ESR
tomA pathetic excuse for freedom and user agency in the web
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thndrbvrThat's what I'm saying. And my other point is that goog and microshaft and others are big contributors to mozilla. If they had more funding from The People and smaller orgs then they'd have more standing power. If the big G decides to pull funding, that alone would be devastating.
tomSorry, so negative. Probably off topic by now. Good chat nontheless
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thndrbvrThat's nice but realistically speaking it'd be godsawful if they did die. How long do we have to wait and watch the world collaspse with proprietary, centralized software before alternatives can take over?
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tomBut thndrbvr, Mozilla has betrayed their user's trust and alienated their loyal users
tomThey don't even try to be their own thing anymore, they just try to imitate chrome
thndrbvrIn some ways yes. In others, I like the things they're doing with containers that now also containerize cookies etc. That and the build in malware and tracker blocking. It may not be as heavy handed as some addons but it doesn't have to be. I think those things are great for protecting mainstream users.
tomPart of me only thinks the only reason google is still around is so they can point the Mozilla and say "look, we have competition" when congress comes knocking; but the reality is Google pulls Mozilla by a leash around the neck. The W3C died with HTML5 and encrypted media extensions breaking their 30+ year tradition of only standardizing by consensus and what Mozilla does now is just play catchup or replicate chrome
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tomthndrbvr: they COULD have fixed the issue of third part cookies for DECADES NOW
tomGo look up the many RFC revisions for cookies for that story
tomThanks to netscape, and mozilla's refusal to fix their implementation of cookies (third party cookies were never supposed to be a thing) gave birth to a lot of the tracking widespread today
tom
» That and the build in malware and tracker blocking. I
except they whitelist a large swatch of tracking and ad networks
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thndrbvrI really don't know what vanilla chromium is like so I can't comment but I'm not sure it's all imitation. Some things are just things to be developed into a browser and I wouldn't be surprized if the devs from one are talking to the other about stuff, sharing ideas. And users are sending the same messages to both.
thndrbvrYeah, like I said, I don't think it should be expected that a mainstream browser flatout blocks all ads. They are a valid way of monetizing a website. It's just a matter of how they're being done. I.e. a self-hosted thing maybe with Adzark or regular banners + links would be acceptable as no data is collected and shared. That doesn't need to be blocked. As someone who is slowly building a social network, I plan on having ads by community members & bands. I need to make money because it costs a whole lot to run a site with a social network, chat, music, etc
MattJHey, as noted, this conversation is now particularly off-topic... if anyone has suggestions for a better venue for this discussion, feel free to suggest it
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tomthndrbvr: lets continue this chat some other time somewhere else
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Licaon_KterThe Offtopic room was mentioned before
tomWhat is it again?
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Ellenor MalikWait. what? Jitsi DMCA's you if you competitively interoperate?
jonas’nobody said that
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SamSomebody did say that, but they're wrong.
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SamOr suggested that they might anyways, but it's nosense.
tom
» competitively interoperate
what a world we live in where this is neccecary
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stevenpeople experiencing any issues with hetzner?
stevenhetzner robot websites is not loading here (Portugal) and my server is also inaccessible
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jonas’I’m writing you from a box at hetzner via an XMPP server running on another box at hetnzer
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MattJHetzner server up, logged into Robot ok
stevenhmm, strange
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Licaon_KterFire?
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jonas’probably some international routing issue
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tomCool
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tomSpace pirates
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stevenhmm, Robot is back up but the server doesn't respond to pings, so something is quite off 😕 perhaps the SSD failed. my first hetzner machine, just been online for 2 weeks ,would be quite unlucky :| I got it from the auction though
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Licaon_KterAuction?
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moparisthebestLicaon_Kter, best way to get really good deals on real dedicated servers https://www.hetzner.com/sb
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moparisthebestI ran one for years, it was great, occasionally a hard drive would fail and they'd replace it promptly and I'd only need a reboot (ran software raid)
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moparisthebestwhen I needed significantly less resources I downgraded to their "cloud" (VPS) offering, after some rough initial bumps, it's been fine too
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stevenI know this is off topic here, but Hetzner gave me a KVM console but it doesn't seem to run in any ofthe browsers I have (firefox with ublock, chromium, google chrome stable, firefox without ublock)
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stevenThe documentation says I need Java to run the KVM Console, but I just get a black screen saying nothing about Java and I have several Java versions installed on my computer. I didn't know Java in the browser was still a thing.. Does anyne have experience with the KVM consoles?
SamIs this an old school applet? Try icedtea. I think that's what I've used then just downloaded them and run them locally in the past
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jonas’steven, you might want to try the rescue system instead, it grants SSH access. but you’ll have to mount the disks manually then… syslog is still oftentimes useful then
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stevenyeah well I just saw the "order manual harware reset" option and then I got the e-mail about the KVM console. I didn't really know such a console existed 😀 but it seems useful to be able to login into the system