XMPP Service Operators - 2021-04-04

  1. thndrbvr » <rob> Keep your data in sight Unless you live in the US I would argue. Or any other anti-privacy country.
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  3. moparisthebest thndrbvr: in the US specifically you should keep your data under your control: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine
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  7. thndrbvr TFC's server is in Iceland.
  8. moparisthebest Where the NSA and friends can hack it legally :)
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  12. thndrbvr But, it is outside their jurisdiction so they can't demand Iceland to hand over anything. Besides, it's got pre-boot encryption and only one SSH key is allowed in. I've got the passphrase memorized. They'd have to scan my mind.
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  15. thndrbvr https://restoreprivacy.com/5-eyes-9-eyes-14-eyes/ | https://flokinet.is/about.php
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  18. moparisthebest they are legally allowed to hack it though, where as if you are a US citizen and host your own stuff at your own house, they 1) aren't allowed to hack it 2) aren't allowed any access at all without a warrant served to you
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  20. thndrbvr Legally is the key word there. Lol. They can still easily raid, confiscate, and put you in jail. Especially if you're not an affulent white person.
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  23. moparisthebest not without a warrant
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  26. xorman pre-boot encryption means that if it's powered off you're screwed?
  27. thndrbvr No matter where data is located or being transferred, the US gov't & contractors will be sniffing all the info they can by all means necessary. I also don't think it's too hard to obtain a warrant depending on who you know and how many times an agent says "kiddie pr0n!!!!!!1111111111" or "t3rr0r1zmmmmm!!!!!" or even these days "conspiary" >__>;
  28. xorman would you need a trip to iceland to power it back on?
  29. thndrbvr I think it's a Ubuntu server running in a VM on a Ubuntu server. Lol. I'm not sure.
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  31. thndrbvr Nah, Flokinet handles everything for me. They've been great with everything these last several months. Quick and knowledgable.
  32. moparisthebest meh that's fine, warrants are covered by due process and such, what isn't fine is 3rd party doctrine / warrantless searches when your data is at a 3rd party
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  34. thndrbvr Does that protect people and non-profit orgs?
  35. xorman a VM, so they could easily target the hypervisor and that pre-boot encryption is worthless
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  37. thndrbvr Also, with all the anti free speech and attempts at outlawing encryption all together or requiring backdoors. I'm not really sure I feel comfortable living in the US or Canada.
  38. xorman due process is still a thing
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  40. thndrbvr xorman: I'm not sure exactly how it works. It might not be a VM. Might just be standard LUKS.
  41. xorman what does it protect you from?
  42. thndrbvr Hm?
  43. xorman a sudden raid? where you quickly unplug the box
  44. moparisthebest US still has the absolute best free speech protections of any country
  45. moparisthebest I guess if you need the best protection against a raid it probably involves keeping it near you and under some thermite
  46. thndrbvr It sounds like there are some Nordic countries that are a bit freer and also less anti-piracy.
  47. moparisthebest my threat model hasn't reached level thermite as of yet
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  52. xorman thermite in the worst country beats 3rd party hosting in the best country
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  54. rob I'd just have another key pair for stuff with a huge passphrase, if I actually had anything to hide
  55. rob Regular encrypted emails
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  59. thndrbvr I suppose the worst case is that I just have a backup of the site, software, and usernames and make everyone reset their passwords and their chat histories and maybe images/other files would be gone. I'm using Wasabi for FunkWhale & PeerTube uploads which is in the US anyway but my server has a llimited amount of storage space and my personal ISP rather sucks and has a cap even if they didn't suck.
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  65. thndrbvr Like, if suddenly the server disappeared for whatever reason.
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  69. menel This "you are not allowed to snoop on your own people" is easy to solve.... (there was a lot in the newspapers after Snowden) USA works with other countries... and USA snoops on Canadians, and UK's services snoop on USA citizens. And then the data is shared fairly. And if by mistake a citizen of the USA is involved... well... can happen.
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  76. thndrbvr Yeah, the 14 eyes countries as I linked earlier. Asia has their own similar thing.
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  105. adam carter hiya.. im adam.. just figuring out this whole environment.. I mean.. I thought I knew a lot . but shit I think I just know enough to be a dangerous amateur
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  107. thndrbvr Welcome & good luck. Lol
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  120. rob Welcome
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  147. tom https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0205-0.3.html SHOULD NOT specify limiting the XML stanza size. Since people have started doing that I've had lots of federation issues. # grep "stanza is too big" /var/log/prosody/prosody.log | wc -l 260 Just in the last 24 hours I've had 260 federation drop outs due to this recommendation.
  148. moparisthebest tom, you mean https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0205.html#rec-stanzasize ? and things absolutely should do that
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  151. tom Yes, it's dropping the s2s connection out
  152. moparisthebest would you prefer your entire server crash or
  153. tom https://0x0.st/-cKv.txt
  154. tom I would prefer the server proccess the request
  155. tom Instead of dropping out
  156. moparisthebest you should set the same defaults ejabberd uses in your prosody
  157. moparisthebest in fact, the entire network should
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  159. tom What is that?
  160. tom Whatever it is, it's WAAAY too small
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  162. moparisthebest https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/ejabberd.yml.example#L32
  163. moparisthebest 262144 for c2s, twice that for s2s
  164. menel but your inband stickers!
  165. tom creep.im conversations.im xabber.org onionmessenger.com yourdata.forsale trashserver.net dismail.de jabber.uk 404.city a3.pm kitty.social Please increase your max stanza size
  166. menel (Movim i think?
  167. moparisthebest please do not, please instead everyone using prosody decrease your max stanza size
  168. tom honeypot.im
  169. tom moparisthebest: I'm not sending out malicious stanzas and it's causing service disruption
  170. tom The point of this is to prevent service disruptions is it not?
  171. tom Well
  172. moparisthebest yes, and you'll need to do this to prevent service disruptions, trust me
  173. tom It's failing at that job and doing the opposite, degrading service. So please increase your stanza sizes
  174. tom Dont be a troll
  175. moparisthebest I'm just trying to help
  176. tom Your not helping
  177. tom Your accusing me of trying to ddos people
  178. tom *dos
  179. moparisthebest no, I'm trying to prevent people from ddos'ing you
  180. menel ejabberd has 265kb and prodody has 10MB.. one too small and one too big IMHO
  181. tom Well i'm not having ddos problems moparisthebest so stop
  182. moparisthebest how sure are you about that
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  184. tom 100%
  185. moparisthebest hehe
  186. menel tom: moparisthebest cannot simply change the network. And doesn't want to... this is not a decision you can just make now... except of course for your own server that you reduce it to 254kb
  187. tom Firstly, I'm not having dos issues
  188. tom And secondly, if I do that legitimate stanzas would be dropped
  189. menel well, then everything is fine
  190. tom And I'd start contributing to the federation problems
  191. tom 254kb is too small
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  194. thndrbvr That does sound small. That sounds like it's from the days of dial-up. Lol
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  196. menel hm.. 512kb sound ok for me.. should be enough for stickers... soo. what are people sending that this error occurs?
  197. menel the user avatar?
  198. menel and ejabberd has 512 for s2s... so maybe I will set it to this.. not that encounter that error...
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  205. tom menel: I'd argue 10MB
  206. tom 512 still seems way too small
  207. tom This isn't something you want to set conservatively
  208. tom » <menel> the user avatar? Probably. You also have to keep in mind XMPP has pubsub now too, and is being used for blogging
  209. tom Realtime news alerts
  210. tom Weather reports
  211. tom Key exhcange
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  213. thndrbvr And the filesizes of everything are getting bigger and bigger. Resolution for screens and cameras higher. RAM on lay person's PCs more than adequate. More stuff supporting markdown of some sort.
  214. tom Nevertheless the defaults shouldn't assume the server is your grandpa's Pentium2 33MHz
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  221. thndrbvr Just saw this in my logs and thought it was interesting. "Apr 04 05:25:39 thefreaks.club named[1311]: client @0x7ff5dc000cd0 (peacecorps.gov): query (cache) 'peacecorps.gov/ANY/IN' denied" Anyone else have the peacecorps trying to access their site? Lol..
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  223. tom What is peacecorps thndrbvr?
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  225. thndrbvr Something with the US military. They generally go to other countries and do "good" things for the communities there. That's about all I know.
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  227. tom Any idea what that has to do with your server?
  228. thndrbvr Nothing which is why it's strange that would appear in my logs.
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  231. thndrbvr I was looking through trying to figure out why nginx is giving me grief. " nginx: [emerg] "server" directive is not allowed here in xmpp.S.conf line 1. Just got new certs from LE and updated all the confs. They were good before..
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  235. thndrbvr Was missing an http { before that. Dunno where it went but okay! Lol
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  507. Licaon_Kter tom: > I'd argue 10MB > 512 still seems way too small What can you put in a stanza right now to fill 10Mb exactly?
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  511. ernst.on.tour A video ?
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  521. Licaon_Kter ernst.on.tour: in the actual stanza...no http used, no jingle p2p?....which client can do that (except gajim xml console lol)?
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  529. menel But this issue is indeed interesting.. Maybe the xsf could publish a recommendation for better interop
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  538. ernst.on.tour Licaon_Kter: C in newest version ? Somebody tried to send video and http_upload_max_file_size was 20MB, but was limited by stanza_size 10MB
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  545. Licaon_Kter ernst.on.tour: which xep tells you how encode a file and send it in a stanza?
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  547. Licaon_Kter http_upload does not care about stanza
  548. Licaon_Kter http_upload does not care about stanza sizes
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  550. menel ernst.on.tour: are you talking prosody and didn't change http_max_content_size (default 10m). Thats the only 10m limit for http upload with the number 10 I know of
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  557. ernst.on.tour I will have a look, but need some time, got worst access via ssh to server. But got following line in debug-log > Somebody tried to send video and http_max_file_size was 20MB, but was limited by stanza_size 10MB
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  560. menel But even if your partner does not have http_upload and not SOCKS5 Bytestreams. (proxy65) the inband(XEP-0047: In-Band Bytestreams) would split the file to smaller pieces to fit in the stanza.. So I suppose the debut lognis just about wording/naming thst we don't understand. And not a issue with the stanza size
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  564. menel (And everyone *should* use http upload or SOCS5) thst has nothing to do with the stanza size anyways
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  567. ernst.on.tour Maybe... Just give me 20min to get well working internet
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  569. menel Yes :-) and then install a mosh client if you use mobile ;-)
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  599. ernst.on.tour Got following debug-line > Apr 01 04:15:09 domain.tld:http_upload warn http_upload_file_size_limit exceeds HTTP parser limit on body size, capping file size to 10485760 B > Apr 01 16:02:51 domain.tld:http_upload debug File too large (15673208 > 10485760)
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  612. menel Is is prodoy with the module: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_http_upload.html ?
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  614. menel If yes your config *must* contain a line to set http_max_content_size = the same size then http_upload_file_size_limit. But read what's in the link about not setting it to big. ( is saves the whole file in ram )
  615. moparisthebest If you need to do more than 10mb http upload with current release of prosody you basically need to use mod_http_upload_external ernst.on.tour
  616. menel If its annother issue maybe it should be discussed in the room of the server you are using
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  618. ernst.on.tour I should have a look about http_upload_external But as I understand, Conversations will prepare a p2p-Session to up/download the file if it hits max_file_size_limit
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  621. moparisthebest Yes, which doesn't work for multi client but otherwise is fine
  622. menel But please install proxy65 for that.. Its better then inband
  623. ernst.on.tour Okay, you mean in muc it isn't going that way ?
  624. ernst.on.tour Will also have a look about proxy65
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  626. menel ernst.on.tour: yes muc only works with http
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  629. menel But I'd you have some free ram you can easily increase the http limit to 20m if you want and try it.. The prosody devs just dont want to be blamed if you have issues then. I used successfully 50mb without problems with that method. Before switching to the external variant just for fun
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  684. ernst.on.tour menel, moparisthebest: Okay, just enable proxy65 to fullfit p2p proxy65 just do XEP-0065, for XEP-0047 I should use mod_tcpproxy ? There is only an old version and I hope this will be include in prosody_0.11.7 Now I will have to wait for response from video-sharer ....
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  689. menel No, nothing for xep-0047.
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  692. ernst.on.tour menel: mosh is read to be fine, but need an old version for my Android4, Termux didn't support less then Android5 and JuiceSSH isn't found on F-Droid, but will have a look about it.
  693. menel And if you have proxy65 most Clients will never use xep-0047 anyways
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  695. ernst.on.tour OKay, then there should be no need for 0047
  696. menel Yes
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  699. menel 0047 is a client thing and every server "supports" it (I think)
  700. ernst.on.tour There was/is a mod_tcpproxy for prosody 0.7, but doesn't see it for 0.11.7
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  703. menel Just forget that
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  719. x187x Hey. Anyone have a link to what's the most ideal privacy+security jabber server setup?
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  721. Licaon_Kter x187x: prosody or ejabberd?
  722. Licaon_Kter Define "threat model" first :)
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  724. menel Enable anonymous open registration and log nothing 😃 ( please don't )
  725. moparisthebest Host it yourself in your closet is my advice :)
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  728. x187x Hopeing there is a some good resources so I can't fuck it up ;) . any help would be appreciated. I'm looking for only open source projects we can trust
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  730. moparisthebest x187x: if your use case is family/friends I'd highly recommend Snikket
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  732. rob +1 there
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  737. menel Maybe the confusion was because you said "most privacy" did you mean good and reasonable privacy and security?
  738. x187x > x187x: prosody or ejabberd? > Define "threat model" first :) Anti-government ! Libertarians Paradise sever
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  744. menel A "normal" setup would be enough then maybe.. Or do you think the government will come after you?
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  746. x187x > Maybe the confusion was because you said "most privacy" did you mean good and reasonable privacy and security? Im uber paranoid. I'm not sure what the current benchmark is for a top tier encryptes xmpp server setup. I been working on a signal messenger fork based off usernames which I will be publishing open source once the time comes. But seems like the interoperability of xmpp servers will be a must have for a "secure" devics toolkit . I'm using grapheme right now
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  749. moparisthebest x187x: host your own Snikket on a server in your house with an encrypted disk
  750. x187x I appreciate your guys replys. I was considering prosody and ejabberd . of course i need to run omemo encryption as standard .
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  754. x187x > x187x: host your own Snikket on a server in your house with an encrypted disk I'll look into snikket thank you. I was thinking run a ejabber on raspberry pies
  755. menel Truth is. Current server are most secure if you host yourself.. (Because metadata) And ejabberd and prosody are both very well tested and secure.
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  757. menel But if you say privacy must br infinite you need p2p clients. https://github.com/maqp/tfc
  758. x187x Yeah I must host myself. And want to have it at scale so I can onboard my friends easy.
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  760. x187x > But if you say privacy must br infinite you need p2p clients. https://github.com/maqp/tfc First time I heard of this one. thank you kindly for sharing !!
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  763. menel And I say thanks moparisthebest for sharing it first. Was an interesting read :-) whole now scale.. 😀 ( not that I hope to be ever unlucky enough to need such a thing )
  764. moparisthebest x187x: you honestly can't go wrong with prosody or ejabberd, both run fine on an RPI, Snikket too which is just a well packaged prosody configured for friends and family
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  768. x187x I appreciate you guys. Thank you so much for your help. I send my love and respect
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  790. Licaon_Kter x187x: > I appreciate your guys replys. I was considering prosody and ejabberd . of course i need to run omemo encryption as standard . OMEMO is a client feature, you can't force it :))
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  801. xorman but it does require server support (PEP)
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  813. Licaon_Kter xorman: right, useless if your clients chose otherwise
  814. x187x Yes. Both valid points
  815. x187x Omemo (exp-0384)
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  819. Licaon_Kter x187x: > I been working on a signal messenger fork based off usernames which I will be publishing open source once the time comes. Was it hard to host Signal?
  820. Licaon_Kter x187x: > I been working on a signal messenger fork based off usernames which I will be publishing open source once the time comes. Was it hard to host the Signal Server?
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  831. x187x > x187x: > Was it hard to host the Signal Server? My friend who is more skilled then me set it up so I can't speak on his behalf. But We got the original messaging server setup pretty fast working with usernames . still need to setup the attachment server to allow sending of pictures/videos etc but shouldn't be too hard. We are working on cutting out all the sms/gsm integration And creating a more liteweight client . we are calling it the global privacy network. Will release it open source once its working properly. Hopefully no more then 1-2months
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  846. moparisthebest x187x: is there any advantage at all vs just using XMPP?
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