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tom
x187x: will it federate with XMPP or will it be yet another centralized system?
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tom
And also what moparisthebest said
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x187x
> x187x: is there any advantage at all vs just using XMPP? Less meta data retention on server side. encryption as standard so the users can't really mess up -so to speak. And we are working to ensure can federate the FOSS-sig-servers of people who want to run there own server seamlessly into Global privacy networks servers. it won't be compatible with xmpp clients. Thus my reasoning to setup my own xmpp server to still have this as an option.
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thndrbvr
x187x hey, that sounds pretty cool to me. Once federation works, I assume you'll be hiding server names in user handles for group chats? Have you looked into decentralization for group chats?
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thndrbvr
Here's something interesting to think about: https://synecdochic.dreamwidth.org/234496.html - Why Monetizing Social Media Through Advertising Is Doomed To Failure written by the personal account of one of the owners of DW who formally worked with LiveJournal.
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Licaon_Kter
thndrbvr: 2008? That aged well...yes
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thndrbvr
btw if anyone here is a dev.. remember how LiveJournal had (has?) XMPP? It seems like DW had to drop it when they forked. So, people are welcome to contribute whatever is needed! lol
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tom
Livejournal users have jods?
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tom
Jids
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tom
What's the address of lj's xmpp server, i want to check that place out
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thndrbvr
It's been a decade since I've used LJ. Ditched it shortly before I found DW. Read DW's Guiding Principles. They're dreamy. lol
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thndrbvr
I think the LJ JID is just username@livejournal.com but I don't really remember.
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thndrbvr
Anyway, LJ totally sucks now. It's turned into some abomination and plagued with adverts. I think they're also closed source now?
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tom
it appears so https://cdn.nuegia.net/4a007482-d22f-4def-89ae-aa66e8ee74b8/screenshot_001.png
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thndrbvr
https://www.livejournal.com/chat/ --> https://github.com/djabberd/
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tom
That's impressive at first glance
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tom
Is the server still up but c2s only eg federation gimped?
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tom
Woah, earthlink had an XMPP service?
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tom
I used to have earthlink's dialup never knew
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thndrbvr
I have no idea. They mention that they still play with others. Who knows how out of date any of that is. I was talking to a retired contributor to DW in #dreamwidth on freenode and he was saying they (dw) removed XMPP for three possible reasons. One of which is subscription / authorization related, one might be technical and there may have been non-free code to link the site to XMPP.
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jl4
> Something with the US military. They generally go to other countries and do "good" things for the communities there. That's about all I know. found them in Senegal... but they seem to seek/ strategic US objectives (mining,etc...) undernearth the fancy 'NGO like umbrella'. umh...
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Sam
It's a bit off topic, but the Peace Corp doesn't have anything to do with the military. It's just citizens volunteering.
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jl4
"In less than six months, the Peace Corps' stated purpose shifted from an agency that could serve important U.S. foreign policy interests to an institution focused ..." https://minds.wisconsin.edu/bitstream/handle/1793/35487/Koerten.doc?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
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jl4
well, i don't care , really...
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rob
I'm guessing there's no need for srv records with standard ports and a records
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xorman
rob: right, but recommended
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xorman
legacy XMPP servers didn't use DNS records for port discovery at all, then they started using MX, then they moved to SRV
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moparisthebest
rob: nothing will do direct TLS without SRV records
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rob
Oh ok, I'll set them then
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rob
Thanks everyone, should I bother setting legacy tls ports?
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[czar]
No
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Sam
What do you mean "setting legacy TLS ports"? You mean in an xmpps record? Unless you have some other port you prefer for that I'd say "yes", it's best to set both so that clietns supporting implicit TLS can use the xmpps record
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[czar]
> legacy XMPP servers didn't use DNS records for port discovery at all, then they started using MX, then they moved to SRV XMPP is one the few things in the world that uses SRV records
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[czar]
Together with Minecraft and I can't remember nothing more
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Sam
SIP uses them, and in theory email (but everything still uses MX in practice), but yah, mostly they didn't catch on.
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moparisthebest
rob: prosody config calls them legacy SSL but actually that's modern TLS and you should set them
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moparisthebest
Http3 comes with it's own replacement for srv records XMPP can start using though
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moparisthebest
As everyone knows, http gets wide adoption of whatever it wants immediately lol
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rob
Oh ok, I thought legacy meant legacy
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Sam
You would think :)
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menel
Wit was once legacy.. And now its modern again
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moparisthebest
It was legacy SSL until some jerk came along and made a XEP that brought it back :)
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tom
moparisthebest: HTTP3 comes with built in tracking for google
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tom
https://hacktivis.me/articles/HTTP3
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tom
I mean we already had our web standards body sold out
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tom
Withw whatwg it's just whatever the latest version of google chrome is doing
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tom
Why not built in tracking to the protocol itself
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tom
All the more google google's machine to slurp up
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rob
After the records and xmpps port I'm just left to tackle proxy 65 and stun/turn
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rob
Then I think it's good for now
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rob
Should I be forcing starttls? I notice on xmpp.net under general, starttls is marked being allowed but it's yellow so I wonder if it's supposed to be forced. Or maybe that's related to not having xmpps setup
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Martin
I'd force it.
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rob
Thanks 🤓 I have my afternoon Todo list now
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moparisthebest
tom: that article is useless, it says it is tracking, no details
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moparisthebest
And yes force TLS, no excuse for plaintext on the internet
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rob
Cool, I'm doing more reading on the docs for my server and then I'll get configuring
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Licaon_Kter
moparisthebest: the author is knowledgeable, afaik, pleroma dev etc Iirc, it's about quics bandwith tracking or whatnot
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moparisthebest
I'd like to read more about it
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Licaon_Kter
I think I read about this years ago, but now there's https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/30/quic_fingerprinting_flaw/