XMPP Service Operators - 2021-04-24


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  5. tom ext-to-btrfs just sounds like a disastrous idea
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  8. tom just buy or rent a hard drive/cloud storage and migrate the data
  9. tom or better use, use zfs
  10. tom it's unstable immature crap like that pushed into the "stable" releases of distributions that made me stay the hell away from btrfs
  11. tom back in debian jessie, btrfs didn't even warn you when it encountered a corrupted chunk
  12. tom not even something in dmesg
  13. tom running btrfs is a minefield of this
  14. tom » has been broken for years, it will immediately and irrevocable corrupt your partition
  15. tom » did that on a laptop 2 years ago and it worked without any issues typical redhat (IBM) mentality. Works on my machine!
  16. tom therefor, good enough to sip
  17. tom ship
  18. tom "we only use ssds so we removed that feature"
  19. moparisthebest zfs-on-linux is the beta never-gonna-be-good stuff :)
  20. moparisthebest btrfs is in the kernel, it works today and you can assume it'll still work tommorow
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  22. octagon btrfs is *extremely* stable when used in the single, dup, or raid1 modes
  23. octagon file system conversions will never be 100% perfect
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  25. moparisthebest I use btrfs in raid1 and single depending on the machine, but I use it everywhere
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  30. Sam zfs on linux is the main dev repo now. It *is* the good stuff
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  32. moparisthebest but it'll never be merged and is often broken by upstream linux changes right ?
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  34. xorman brtfs vs. zfs 🍿️
  35. octagon main dev repo? mainline or of zfs?
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  38. xorman the only thing I hate about zfs is that cache RAM usage shows as used, not buffer
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  40. Kris zfs for the win :p
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  49. tom » <octagon> btrfs is *extremely* stable when used in the single, dup, or raid1 modes yeah but that's not impressive and doesn't offer much over an lvm or hardraid
  50. tom moparisthebest: ZoL uses the same zfs codebase as all the other openzfses
  51. octagon hwraid doesn't have checksumming, and hwraid/lvm has no compression, dedupe, or snapshots
  52. octagon mdraid is tedious to maintain
  53. tom including FreeBSD, which is switching to OpenZFS because that's where the good stuff is happening
  54. tom » <octagon> hwraid doesn't have checksumming, yes it does
  55. tom It's called Type 2 protection and can be had with HBA controllers too
  56. moparisthebest yea hardware raid is an immediate hard no
  57. tom it's still useful for zfs in that it can prevent some stupid errors relating to the sas cable plug being loose from happening
  58. moparisthebest btrfs and zfs both have wins and losses over each other, depends what you want really
  59. tom I just don't think so
  60. octagon but you should still use btrfs or zfs wherever possible, they are modern file systems no reason to not use them
  61. tom there's no scenario i can think of that btrfs does that zfs or some other solution does a whole lot better
  62. moparisthebest tom, can I setup a raid1 array with 2x2TB drives today and then add a 3TB drive tommorow and then replace one of the 2TB with a 4TB the next day with ZFS? can with btrfs
  63. tom I'd still rather do XFS w/ checksumming on a lvm raid1
  64. tom » <moparisthebest> tom, can I setup a raid1 array with 2x2TB drives today and then add a 3TB drive tommorow and then replace one of the 2TB with a 4TB the next day with ZFS? can with btrfs you can append vdevs to a pool
  65. xorman why not? you can add devices to a mirror in zfs
  66. octagon adding vdevs is a hack
  67. moparisthebest I'm under the impression you can't "change shape" with zfs
  68. tom reconfigure your topology on the fly is a hack
  69. moparisthebest what about changing raid levels ?
  70. tom until you issue a 'rebalance' your data is in a very unsafe state
  71. moparisthebest like going from single to raid1
  72. tom and won't fix itself until you do rebalance manually
  73. tom but it's not like it's going to warn you that some of your blocks are only partially replicated
  74. xorman > like going from single to raid1 zfs can do that
  75. moparisthebest in-place without downtime ?
  76. tom » <moparisthebest> I'm under the impression you can't "change shape" with zfs there are some restrictions with regard to Zn and vdev types
  77. xorman not sure about the growing/"changing shape"
  78. tom yes
  79. xorman yes, you can add a device to make a mirror on the fly
  80. xorman and the good thing is you only sync what is occupied, unlike mdraid
  81. tom you just can't reconfigure the topology of a raidZn vdev within a pool
  82. tom you can grow it and add/remove other vdevs tough
  83. tom *though
  84. tom you can add multiple raidZn vdevs to a pool
  85. xorman so you can't grow a zpool?
  86. tom yes you can grow a zpool
  87. tom there are many ways to do it
  88. tom you can grow the vdevs and/or add more storage type vdevs to a pool
  89. tom this is how mine looks
  90. tom pool: tank state: ONLINE scan: scrub repaired 0B in 04:02:08 with 0 errors on Thu Apr 8 02:19:10 2021 config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM SLOW tank ONLINE 0 0 0 - raidz1-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 - scsi-35000c5004247a387 ONLINE 0 0 0 0 scsi-35000c50042488edf ONLINE 0 0 0 0 scsi-35000c5004248a547 ONLINE 0 0 0 0 scsi-35000c500560c720f ONLINE 0 0 0 0 scsi-35000c500565cbc4b ONLINE 0 0 0 0 special mirror-2 ONLINE 0 0 0 - ata-Samsung_SSD_850_EVO_M.2_1TB_S33ENX0H902345P-part3 ONLINE 0 0 0 0 ata-HFS500G32TND-N1A2A_FI64N09421020524Z ONLINE 0 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors
  91. tom I plan to replace the special mirror-2 vdev with 12GB/s SAS ssds when I can afford more hardware
  92. tom until then I had a m.2 ssd with extra space and a sata ssd i threw in
  93. tom i plan to replace the drives within the mirror-2 vdev and then grow that vdev to accomodate more space, then adjust some of the datasets so they are fully accelerated
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  95. tom currently, just tiny io and metadata are stored within solid state
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  98. tom because spinning rust is terrible at performance with tiny io
  99. tom or random io
  100. tom so i just send the tiny and random to the ssds, which they are good at
  101. tom best of both worlds!
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  104. tom and I get a little bit of hardware error-correction across the full path so even a a faulty cable won't cause an error which the software needs to correct and slow things down via the Type 2 protection which my HBA card supports
  105. tom the disks use 520-byte sectors instead of 512
  106. tom 8 bytes are used for hardware ECC
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  108. tom the rest is given to ZFS to use it's purposes
  109. tom this allowed for error correction in the cables, not just the data
  110. tom but the sata drives are just stupid and don't have anything fancy
  111. tom just consumer drives
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  115. tom btw, FreeBS13 will use the OpenZFS codebase (the same one OpenZFS on Linux uses)
  116. tom or you could use it right now by installing the zfs.ko from ports
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  118. tom which you should do anyways if you want things like encrypted datasets
  119. xorman do you use external SLOG on the SSDs?
  120. tom not right now. I used to but currently I just don't have a lot of synchronous writes
  121. xorman apt-get is painfully slow for me under zfs, even with sync=disabled. I hope to solve it with a slog but I'm not sure
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  124. tom keep in mind that a raidZ(n) has the random performance of 1 spindle
  125. tom if sync=disabled did not fix your problem try adding a special vdev xorman. It sounds like the apt problem may be database expensive
  126. xorman I'm using a mirror
  127. tom how many mirror vdevs?
  128. xorman 2
  129. tom oh, so 2 spindle write perf
  130. xorman apt-get over spinning ext4 is way faster
  131. tom I would suggestion adding a solid state special mirror, and then setting the pool's special allocation class to 64K
  132. tom assuming your other datasets's recordsize is 128K
  133. tom yeah, ext4 isn't copy on write
  134. xorman I might try with sync=enabled and libeatmydata
  135. tom what is that?
  136. xorman it's a workaround to disable sync writes in dpkg
  137. tom why does dpkg use a lot of sync writes?
  138. xorman zfs should handle the synced writes anyway with sync=always
  139. xorman as a test at least
  140. tom the only things that need to be persitent in a package manager is the list of installed packages
  141. octagon and ya know the packages it installs 😉
  142. tom everything else can be redownloaded or regenerated
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  144. xorman I heard apt-get has performance issues with btrfs too
  145. tom the thing about zfs, well hard drives in generally really, is that if you send too many random writes to them you can starve out everything else
  146. tom a drive might be capable up pumping out 200MB/s largeio and 400MB/s sequential, but if you starve it with randomio it's capped to 4MB/s
  147. tom or smallio
  148. tom you know what has performance issues on zfs? lmdb and monero
  149. tom that's a big mess. I have to occasionally copy and delete the data around to defrag it
  150. tom hopefully I won't have to do that as much with the special class, or anymore ounce i get bigger ssds
  151. tom it's because using LMDB is CoW on CoW
  152. octagon Can you not chcon and disable cow for the folder/files?
  153. octagon chattr*
  154. xorman I guess ethereum may the same problem bc I tried to run a validator and it missed all the blocks due to i/o lag
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  156. tom zfs is cow
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  158. tom that's how it fails safe
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  322. jonas’ any DB on top of a Cow filesystem is not going to be fun :)
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  1270. ernst.on.tour Somebody from www.conversejs.org online ? Got a HSTS-Error, your cert is only named for conference.conservejs.org, but not for www Maybe your should add it. Https//conversejs.org is working well
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  1289. Licaon_Kter I've pinged JC
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  1302. ernst.on.tour Thanks ...
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  2748. nicola HI! I am evaluating setting up an XMPP server. Do you suggest to me ejabberd or openfire? Or other?
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  2751. flow nicola, i'd suggest ejabberd or prosody
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  2756. jonas’ or snikket if it fits your usecase
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  2759. jonas’ https://snikket.org/
  2760. nicola > nicola, i'd suggest ejabberd or prosody Tks. I seem that ejabberd it simpler to install. Am I wrong?
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  2773. xorman both are equally simple
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  2776. nicola > or snikket if it fits your usecase Interesting.
  2777. jonas’ nicola, snikket is in my opinion simplest to set up, it is geared towards friends&family and I recommend it for that
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  2780. jonas’ (disclaimer: I am a contributor :))
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  2783. nicola @jonas’ tsk ;-)
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  2801. nicola > nicola, snikket is in my opinion simplest to set up, it is geared towards friends&family and I recommend it for that What are the differences with ejabberd?
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  2808. jonas’ nicola, Snikket is a complete suite: Android client, iOS client (closed beta), Server including web interface for easy management
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  2813. jonas’ the XMPP server component is a preconfigured prosody with hand-selected modules for ease of use and setup.
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  2819. jonas’ as the package is always tested together, many of the issues like "which modules do I need?" "does X work with Y?" don’t occur
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  2826. jonas’ being standard XMPP, you can federate with other Snikket (and normal XMPP domains) or use it with other (non-Snikket) XMPP clients such as Dino or Gajim on non-phone systems.
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  2831. jonas’ being standard XMPP, you can federate with other Snikket (and normal XMPP) domains or use it with other (non-Snikket) XMPP clients such as Dino or Gajim on non-phone systems.
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  2836. nicola > being standard XMPP, you can federate with other Snikket (and normal XMPP domains) or use it with other (non-Snikket) XMPP clients such as Dino or Gajim on non-phone systems. Tks. Very interesting. I see that the installation is very simple by docker
  2837. jonas’ that’s the goal :)
  2838. xorman I was also about to recommend Snikket if you are new to server hosting
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  2841. jonas’ we also have a chat: xmpp:general@channels.snikket.org?join
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  2844. jonas’ if you have any questions or issues with setting it up or something, that’s the place to go :)
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  2850. nicola Ok. I’ll try to install Snikket and I’ll come back here. Thank you again
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  2853. jonas’ have fun! :)
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  2856. nicola The iOS app is only for Snikket or is it possible to add other XMPP server accounts?
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  2859. jonas’ I’m not sure, I don’t have an apple device myself
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  2862. jonas’ I suggest you hop into general@channels.snikket.org and ask there, there are people who are in the iOS beta.
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  2867. jonas’ however, during beta, standard snikket server users are preferred because that’s the main focus currently.
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  3504. nicola Here I am, again.
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  3506. nicola I installed Snikket
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  3510. MattJ Using the Snikket iOS app with servers other than a Snikket server or a Tigase server will lead to sub-optimal results
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  3515. jonas’ hi nicola :)
  3516. nicola I am using on iOS Siskin IM
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  3521. nicola Probably this is not the right place, but I see a warning on the SSL connection. Why?
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  3526. MattJ Which server are you connecting to?
  3527. nicola https://chat.nicfab.it - self hosted
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  3534. jonas’ nicola, hmm, do you have a reverse proxy in front?
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  3537. MattJ The certificate on that site says it is for a different site
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  3542. nicola > The certificate on that site says it is for a different site Ok. I try to understand
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  3560. nicola I have a firewall and I thought that the SSL connection was automatically set during the installation
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  3592. nicola I installed certbot. Can I use it to generate certificates for the Snikket site or it is managed by the docker?
  3593. MattJ Snikket will generate its own certificates
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  3600. MattJ It just needs to listen directly on port 80/443, or you need to configure a reverse proxy if you have other things on the same machine
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  3603. nicola > Snikket will generate its own certificates If I set port 80 it doesn’t work
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  3607. MattJ Because I'm guessing you have something else already using port 80
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  3610. MattJ nginx or apache for example
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  3617. MattJ Documentation is here: https://github.com/snikket-im/snikket-server/blob/master/docs/advanced/reverse_proxy.md
  3618. nicola Ok. Now it works fine
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  3622. MattJ Great :)
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