XMPP Service Operators - 2021-05-02


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  1742. qrpnxz so email has this nice feature that i can change service providor, but this is invisible to people because i always use the same hostname. Is this possible with XMPP?
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  1746. Holger qrpnxz: Question is whether/how the providers support export/import of your data (such as your contact list including the presence subscriptions).
  1747. Holger But yes this is possible.
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  1749. qrpnxz yeah that's important too, but the DNS thing was my main goal here because w/o that it's really game over
  1750. qrpnxz alright good to know
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  1775. christian But xmpp is no replacement for email
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  1779. Holger qrpnxz, yes, the DNS thing is comparable (MX record for email, SRV for XMPP, both independent of your A/AAAA/whatever records for other services).
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  1783. qrpnxz i want to use a CNAME record rather than a SRV record, will nodes use that?
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  1787. qrpnxz oh i think not
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  1789. Holger qrpnxz, yes, in that case you can't host things such as web sites elsewhere though (and what's wrong with SRV records?). Anyhow those things are details which make more sense to discuss with a concrete hosting provider.
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  1796. qrpnxz where i am hosting my domain name much easier to change cname records, but those will not do what i want, SRV it is :)
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  1812. croax Talking about account portability: does it make any sense to propose import/export to users as no user can _easily_ register to any public server with its own Domain Name?
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  1825. croax (easy means _no asking the admin to modify server configuration_)
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  1852. qrpnxz I don't think anything is required of the service provider for you to use your own domain name. As for data portability, I think it's a moral obligation of the service to allow you to import/export your data.
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  1861. christian croax: why have a own domainname? Why not a own topleveldomain?
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  1866. qrpnxz :|
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  1873. christian There are a bunch of companies who can register "new toplevel domains"
  1874. christian I wait for "*.xmpp" :)))
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  1881. croax Yeah I mean import/export is nothing without public servers allowing to register with custom domain names. For a given user he could not transparently migrate from one service to another one, because he's bound to the initial domain name.
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  1894. christian No. There are a lot of xmpp providres who host your domain.
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  1899. christian You just have to point the dns record to the server or delegate the dns server of the xmpp provider.
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  2008. Licaon_Kter croax: you mean https://snikket.org/blog/dapsi-fund-account-portability/ ?
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  2080. croax Licaon_Kter: yes. I mean if data migration is achieved but _most of users_ (including ones who don't own domain name) can't escape initial provider because of network pointers (in original URI), is it achieving initial portability goals? christian: I would be surprised in that case, especially when it comes to generate X509 certificates of customs domains.
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  2095. mimi89999 > Establishing a secure connection from lebihan.pl to muc.tigase.org failed. Certificate hash: 6309c033094e3d8fb71d4dea59197ac81bd38240a4c03a68c10fee75fc09ac47. Error with certificate 0: certificate has expired.
  2096. mimi89999 > Establishing a secure connection from lebihan.pl to chat.cluxia.eu failed. Certificate hash: 71a66965fa5b567a4d14e672b642d4e0a85e62d449681231a53ceb90e4ce13c4. Error with certificate 0: certificate has expired.
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  2115. Martin Tigase down again
  2116. Martin > Establishing a secure connection from mdosch.de to muc.tigase.org failed. Certificate hash: 6309c033094e3d8fb71d4dea59197ac81bd38240a4c03a68c10fee75fc09ac47. Error with certificate 0: certificate has expired.
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  2125. Licaon_Kter Pinged Wojtek
  2126. Licaon_Kter I've pinged Wojtek
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  2128. jonas’ pep., cluxia.eu above ^^^
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  2264. christian croax, be more clear what surprises you? hostings domains or certbot?
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  2323. croax christian: example ratio of public servers accepting in-band registration and custom domain without asking the admin to update the conf.
  2324. croax christian: example: ratio of public servers accepting in-band registration and custom domain without asking the admin to update the conf.
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  2341. qrpnxz why would the admin have to update the conf
  2342. christian for money?
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  2346. croax > why would the admin have to update the conf Allow registration + certs ?
  2347. christian the same reason why the baker delivers bread to him
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  2360. croax christian: I assume it was a technical question more than a motivation one ;-)
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  2368. christian technical it is no problem
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  2375. ernst.on.tour Maybe I didn't understand the right way, but if you own a domain and point it to to rented mailserver and wish to change your mailproviser, what do you change ? Your mails will hopfully stored on your client, because your MX-Record will point to the new server and your old provider wouldn't configure your newone. There should be no difference to xmpp. If you own your domain, you could point your SRV-Record to an other server
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  2379. qrpnxz > Allow registration + certs ? question mark indeed
  2380. qrpnxz > but if you own a domain and point it to to rented mailserver and wish to change your mailproviser, what do you change ? You change the DNS records.
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  2383. ernst.on.tour Right, and what will you modify if you change your xmpp-provider ? You will change your DNS-entry
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  2386. croax I'm just commenting on Snikket article: > Over the years we have seen many XMPP providers come and go, and when a provider decides to shut down, it’s too often not easy for people to obtain their data and move it elsewhere Most users don't own their domain and access to register an account on public server with a custom domain is not easy. What I am saying is that bringing import/export features won't magically save such users.
  2387. ernst.on.tour MX-record is a "subset" of DNS, also SRV is a "subset"
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  2389. christian ernst.on.tour, for the example email , if you own a domain, and you have a dns hosting all you have to poit the mx record to the mail server domain "mx.provider.com". this is all, very similar is it also with SVR records to make a xmpp domain hosting. you must make a SVR record and poit to the server who hosts you
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  2391. christian it is a bit more complicated, but nut much :))
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  2394. christian croax, normally your data should not be on a server.
  2395. ernst.on.tour Sorry, maybe speaking of two different targetgroups. If your mother got an email-account it will be at gmx.net or telecom.com or ... If she leave that provider, she also lost her email-address. If your technical-affin brother got an email-address he maybe own his maildomain and got a pointer to a rent mailserver. If he will change, he has to modify. His mails have to be stored in his client, otherwise they will dropped
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  2399. ernst.on.tour christian: *I* know 😉 But croax seems to want to change his provider without modify the MX because he didn't own the maildomain, as I understand right. s/mail/xmpp/g;s/MX/SRV/g
  2400. croax ernst.on.tour: Exactly. Saying only few people that took care of using their domain and finding a server accepting it is addressed by this portability. Maybe considering a host domain on URI is not enough abstraction
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  2410. ij Hmmm, recent Monal beta seems to repeatedly crash when clicking on profile picture in 1:1 chat, then on view received pictures/attachments
  2411. ij ah, wrong channel
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  2540. pep. jonas’: thanks
  2541. pep. mimi89999 also
  2542. mimi89999 What failed?
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  2554. pep. cert renewal, nothing exceptional :)
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