XMPP Service Operators - 2021-05-05


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  251. Martin I think Ge0rg is busy enough these days with the vaxbot load. What's the issue with TLS1.2?
  252. Licaon_Kter Martin: #security
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  257. jonas’ https://crypto.stackexchange.com/a/81967 FWIW
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  311. tom Martin: TLS1.2 is a absolute pain in the ass to maintain
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  314. tom It would be a lot simpler and easier to configure not mess up if we could switch over to tlsv1.3
  315. tom I for one would very much like to drop tlsv1.2, and according to my statistics only about 5 or so instances still require it
  316. tom The rest of them are fully 1.3 compliant
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  320. Licaon_Kter tom: how do you check? openssl to each s2s ?
  321. Licaon_Kter Clients?
  322. tom Licaon_Kter: log files and also s2s:show_tls(domain) in prosody's shell
  323. tom All my clients are tlsv1.3
  324. tom In prosody you can check via the c2s:show_tls()
  325. tom Command
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  334. Licaon_Kter 👍
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  336. tom For the people using old versions of openssl that don't support tlsv1.3, you also get forward secrecy if you upgrade
  337. tom Which is very important for an IM server
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  1124. Link Mauve tom, fyi, we still got 15 s2s connections open in TLSv1 and 637 with TLSv1.2, vs. 1404 with TLSv1.3.
  1125. Link Mauve None in TLSv1.1 thankfully.
  1126. tom Who's using tlsv1?
  1127. Link Mauve So your view of the network definitely doesn’t match ours. :)
  1128. tom And what ciphersuite
  1129. Link Mauve From our s2s, bunin.im ceplovi.cz dolka.fr hotsecure.biz jabber.mk.ua jabber.no-sense.net jabber.pw jabber.tuxfamily.org lcp.cc onex.mandalpipe.com the-compiler.org yukon.to
  1130. tom I haven't used tlsv1 since i telneted into a muc with trebuchet
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  1132. Link Mauve Using AES256-SHA DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA.
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  1134. tom Oh wel, that's not as bad as I thought it was going to be
  1135. Link Mauve Prosody probably disallows some worse ones by default.
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  1212. Holger > Which is very important for an IM server tom, the attack vector is that someone transfers sensitive information without using any form of end-to-end encryption, the attacker sniffs and stores the traffic but has no access to either end of the communication nor to the server, later gets access to one of the server's and therefore the private key, and because the clear-text messages aren't stored in MAM, uses the private key to decrypt the traffic that was sniffed earlier. Right?
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  1219. Holger > Which is very important for an IM server tom, the attack vector is that someone transfers sensitive information without using any form of end-to-end encryption, the attacker sniffs and stores the traffic but has no access to either end of the communication nor to the server, later gets access to the server and therefore the private key, and because the clear-text messages aren't stored in MAM for some reason, uses the private key to decrypt the traffic that was sniffed earlier. Right?
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  1340. tom Yes
  1341. tom If your keys get stoled them being used to decrypt past stored-to-disk coms
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  1368. Holger Right, but being able to do that only makes a effective difference in highly specific scenarios like the one I outlined above. (People might want to take that into account when judging themselves on the realtive importance of protecting against such attacks vs. interop, for example.)
  1369. Holger Right, but being able to do that only makes an effective difference in highly specific scenarios like the one I outlined above. (People might want to take that into account when judging themselves on the realtive importance of protecting against such attacks vs. interop, for example.)
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  1387. Holger Right, but being able to do that only makes an effective difference in highly specific scenarios like the one I outlined above. (People might want to take that into account when judging themselves on the relative importance of protecting against such attacks vs. interop, for example.)
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  1436. croax Holger: Attack vector is not only cleartext exchanges with MAM disabled, but all meta-data, including E2E exchanges. This is basically SSL stripping for past recorded exchanges.
  1437. croax Holger: Attack vector is not only cleartext exchanges with MAM disabled, but all meta-data, including ones coming with E2E exchanges. This is basically SSL stripping for past recorded exchanges.
  1438. Holger With MAM enabled I see no difference w.r.t. the metadata either.
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  1440. Holger But yes if we're talking metadata we can ignore E2EE of course.
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  1475. Holger FWIW I'm not trying to downplay security questions. Quite the opposite, I think that's the one most important topic admins must be able to handle. I just try to insist on properly judging on trade-offs, rather than doing blind MOAH STRICT MOAH BETTA decisions.
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  1489. croax Holger: you're perfectly right. Make people think and understand what they do. So PFS + MAM is kind of contradiction but not incompatible.
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  1493. Holger Right. And if there's no significant downside in enforcing PFS then the decision is obvious of course.
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  1637. BaBa > I also think that with keeping in mind the reality that many governments do in fact record ALL internet traffic to disk.. now you might think that's crazy but egypt actually did that and the utah datacenter and ESPECIALLY google have the ability to do that I, 2nd you. But what the remedy to this shit??
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  1653. Menel What they wrote.. Encrypt it with a security margin... That it can hold 30 years to come..
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  1714. xorman MAM can be disabled on the client side
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  1719. Araucaria What is wrong with tls1.2?
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  1736. croax xorman: > MAM can be disabled on the client side But you have no control on your correspondants MAM settings, right?
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  1739. moparisthebest you also don't know if your correspondant is a spy shuffling all your e2e messages directly to the NSA so what's the point? :P
  1740. croax moparisthebest: you may at least have the right to have trustful contacts :-)
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  1766. croax > What is wrong with tls1.2? Not an expert but, security speaking, seems like TLS 1.3 enforces what can be configured in 1.2. So 1.2 MAY be misconfigured. (Eg mandating PFS).
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  1889. BaBa > you also don't know if your correspondant is a spy shuffling all your e2e messages directly to the NSA so what's the point? :P If encrypted.... What can NSA do with that
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  1900. rob They wouldn't be encrypted if your contact was sending the messages to them
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  1902. rob So verify your contacts and their keys
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  1905. BaBa Oh i c in thts case
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  1907. BaBa Problem with server or something??
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  1909. BaBa Privacy and security room not working today
  1910. rob I don't know about not working, I tried to join and was banned so it's kinda working
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  1912. rob Is it a private group?
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  1914. Licaon_Kter Was mentined above that nixnet is down. Can someone ping Amolith ?
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  1919. neox Licaon_Kter, Amolith server is down, so is his xmpp account too 😉
  1920. Licaon_Kter Well, don't you all have Keyoxide and Fedi accounts? :)
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  1931. rob Keyoxide is great
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  1933. BaBa > Is it a private group? No. I had joined the group but banned today
  1934. rob Weird, wonder what's up
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  1947. Araucaria BaBa, sometimes when a group is unavailable you can see that banned message, you likely were not actually banned
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  1951. rob Probably then because the server is down?
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  1966. BaBa Araucaria: all right. Thank you
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  1996. Menel Its not the same error message if there is no host at all.. That would be _remote server not found_ but I don't know what this one is.. Maybe its the muc component that's down?
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  2000. Menel Hm, no my server does get a s2s to that..
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  2052. Menel Got it now. Its the ejabberd server error, if you want to create a muc and are not allowed to do it from remote.. Prosody would say something like "you are no longer in this muc" So it seems this mic was deleted.
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  2058. Menel Got it now. Its the ejabberd server error, if you want to create a muc and are not allowed to do it from remote.. Prosody would say something like "you are no longer in this muc" So it seems this muc was deleted.
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  2369. qrpnxz anyone have a regex on hand for JIDs?
  2370. moparisthebest famous last words :)
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  2377. Sam Same as in the other room: there is no such thing. You could use *several* regular expressions to split (but not validate) a JID, but at that point you might as well just do the splitting in the language you're using and skip the regexp part
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  2381. mjk Sam: are jids non-regular? O_O (I know email addresses are)
  2382. mjk Sam: are jids not regular? O_O (I know email addresses are)
  2383. moparisthebest no, you can't validate email addresses with a regex either
  2384. Sam Yah, all those various email regexs are wrong too and will eventually bite you.
  2385. moparisthebest at least not without many tears, and then you end up giving up
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  2390. Sam For JIDs among other things you'd need to split on the last "/" first, so you'd need backtracing which would require fancy Perl style not-regular-regular-expressions (maybe, I assume those could do it but I don't know all the things they support). However if you're doing that I can also create a JID that can lead to near infinite back tracing, so it's just not a good idea.
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  2392. Sam And that's just to split them into their component parts, you definitely can't do internationalization with a regexp.
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  2402. mjk Sounds exciting... Thanks guys
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  2408. moparisthebest the only acceptable "is the email/jid valid?" regex imho is ".*@.*\..*" for a quick smell test
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  2411. mjk Haha
  2412. moparisthebest validate it the proper way further on if you need to be sure
  2413. moparisthebest in english that's "has at least one @ and one . after the @"
  2414. Sam Nope, that won't work for me@localhost :)
  2415. Sam (but I know what you meant)
  2416. mjk I guess PEGs should be powerful _and_ effient enough
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  2418. moparisthebest right but @localhost isn't valid for say, registering for a website or whatever, but yea :)
  2419. mjk localhost.localdomain!!111
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  2426. ernst.on.tour Shouldn't something like [a-z0-9\.\\[0-90-9]+@ fetch the user part ?
  2427. Licaon_Kter O hai, match this `@_xmpp_Nick=2fmucname=40conference.domain.tld:matrix.org`
  2428. mjk Incoming code review... > `.*@.*\..*` This would match `@.` :p
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  2433. Sam My best initial guess (just for splitting, but almost certainly still wrong and it's probably easier to just do the splitting algorithm which is really easy to implement) would be `(?:(.*)@)?([^/]*)(?:/(.*))?`
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  2436. mjk Licaon_Kter: I- is that even a jid? suspicious@fry.jpeg
  2437. Licaon_Kter mjk: it's how matrix users mention xmpp members over their broken bridge
  2438. mjk Ah, so it's a mention, as I suspected
  2439. Licaon_Kter Bad example actually, i dunno how it looks the other way :)
  2440. Sam yah, that one is not actually a valid JID, just how matrix does things
  2441. Sam oops, my random dumb stab at it is already broken by trivial JIDs. This is why you should just implement the splitting algorithm :)
  2442. mathieui https://lab.louiz.org/poezio/slixmpp/-/blob/master/slixmpp/jid.py#L26 FWIW (but you need to validate it anyway, that’s just for splitting somewhat adequately, and you can’t validate it with a regex)
  2443. mjk Now this chat has NaN problems
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  2448. Sam heh, my regexp library limits repeats to a max of 1000 for some reason, so even that wouldn't work
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  2453. mathieui Sam, so you are ignoring the last 23 bytes of each part??? That is a scandal!
  2454. Sam mathieui: yup, can't parse all those 1023 byte localparts now!
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  2456. mathieui and resources!
  2457. mathieui and domainparts!
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  2459. Sam Actually, even changing that it doesn't work for me, unsure why. I get no matches on even simple JIDs
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  2466. Sam huh, it's the bounding ^$ breaking it. No idea why though. Oh well.
  2467. Sam Okay, I was totally wrong, this should work for splitting at least. I was being dumb, you don't have to match the last /, you obviously have to match the first one which is fine.
  2468. Sam But still, don't do it. It's just a bad idea.
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  2487. moparisthebest A programmer has a problem, they think, I know I'll use a regex! Now they have 2 problems
  2488. Sam This ^
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  2523. mjk Yeah, I mean.. ```lua print(([[A programmer has a problem, they think, I know I'll use a regex! Now they have 2 problems]]):match(' (.+) problems?')) ``` > programmer has a problem, they think, I know I'll use a regex! Now they have 2
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  2536. qrpnxz xD
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