XMPP Service Operators - 2021-12-23

Is there actually some sort of rationale for why "channel" is supposed to somehow be inherently "better", other than (I guess) "something popular with some someone's favorite demographic right now uses that term"?

That post is light on justifications. I set my own standards for consistency when I set up chinwag back in 2015 and I don't care what the rest of the world does now, heh. https://bremensaki.com/2015/05/06/conferences-rooms-mucs-what/

rozzin, mike: doesn't matter which term exactly, just effing use one consistently through the ecosystem

Terminology rationale: https://docs.modernxmpp.org/rationale/#terminology

MattJ: so, "no". OK.

No?

MattJ: The only non-negative point listed for "Channel" on that page is that it's used by Slack, Discord, and IRC. Despite "group chat" being identified as "Widely understood due to its use in all the most popular messaging apps" and ʿnatural even for people who aren't familiar with those appsʾ. So if that's the answer to my question, then the answer to my question seems to be "no".

All the other choices have negatives

The reference to the Google ngrams search for "chat room" is an interesting starting point for s discussion that I wish had happened instead of being treated like the religious interpretation of "a miracle occurs".

MattJ: that wasn't my question.

We can't get everyone in the world to agree on terminology, I get it (I got that long ago)

And "being used by popular apps" (esp. popular for the thing in question, public channels) _is_ a rationale, no? You make it sound like common usage would be irrelevant.

Oh, wait—that's not even ngrams, it's *popular searches*.

Even within the German-speaking community people are split

But yes, there's no terminology that would make everyone happy, obviously. Perfect bike shedding topic.

(German as an example of a language with awkward translation of channel)

MattJ: again, not what I said/asked.

Okay, then I guess you got your answer

Case closed 🙂

Next customer please.

:bell:

Yes. 😁

Holger schrieb: > Next customer please. I'm in the line ...

MattJ: what does "awkward translation of channel" mean BTW?

/me invites *IM* to the business support Kanal.

The translation of channel into some languages is the word for "canal" (i.e. the waterway)

I'm not a speaker of those languages, so I can't make a judgement, but I personally don't think it is very different to the situation in English

I think that's... not how translation works....

It's not like many average people would associate "channel" with a group chat, and a channel can also mean a waterway in English

Yeah, in German it's both a translation of "canal" _and_ of "channel". Though more like the channel in "television channel", i.e. clear seperation of sender and recipients.

I was about to say: Do you guys not have television in Germany? 😁

But whether or not "channel" is a sane terminology seems somewhat unrelated to the proper translation, no?

So all it needs is translation working groups for modernxmpp terms!

It's my feeling that the issue is actually not very related to translation issues, indeed

But nobody can agree on anything, and yet we have to make progress

Well, there is an idea: find appropriate native words for "chatroom" in many languages other than English, and then translate *to* English....

Slack translates "channel" to "channel" so their translation guys do believe "Kanal" is worse 🙂

Just wait until clients implement XEP-0033....

> Holger wrote: > Slack translates "channel" to "channel" so their translation guys do believe "Kanal" is worse 🙂 IRC client devs historically use Kanal/canal

Ellenor Bjornsd.: is that where the split comes from? "Slack users vs. IRC users"?

As a service operator, XEP-0033 seems quite attractive. As a user, it fills me with dread....

dunno

what's xep 33?

What is the way to translate the room language to another language for old phones

Please discuss terms in native language. Everything else is wasted time.

French in french chat rooms, chinese in chinese rooms ... spanisch in ... greek in ...

Ellenor Bjornsd., XEP-0033 is "Extended Stanza Addressing": > This specification defines an XMPP protocol extension that enables entities to include RFC822-style address headers within XMPP stanzas in order to specify multiple recipients or sub-addresses.

> Slack translates "channel" to "channel" so their translation guys do believe "Kanal" is worse 🙂 Am German and approve this message.. Some things are best left untranslated 😀

I guess I assumed that Slack got "channel" from IRC since that seemed to be their initial target market, and IRC got that term from CB / HAM / other radio cultures. And presumably there are terms consistently used by those radio cultures in other languages (whether or not they're cognates of "channel"), but Slack being American I'd kind of expect them to just punt on translation whenever/wherever possible....

> Am German and approve this message.. Some things are best left untranslated 😀 +1