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rozzin 02:01:35
Is there actually some sort of rationale for why "channel" is supposed to somehow be inherently "better", other than (I guess) "something popular with some someone's favorite demographic right now uses that term"?
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mike 02:38:48
That post is light on justifications. I set my own standards for consistency when I set up chinwag back in 2015 and I don't care what the rest of the world does now, heh. https://bremensaki.com/2015/05/06/conferences-rooms-mucs-what/
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rozzin, mike: doesn't matter which term exactly, just effing use one consistently through the ecosystem
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Terminology rationale: https://docs.modernxmpp.org/rationale/#terminology
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rozzin 13:31:08
MattJ: so, "no". OK.
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MattJ 13:38:21
No?
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rozzin 13:47:23
MattJ: The only non-negative point listed for "Channel" on that page is that it's used by Slack, Discord, and IRC. Despite "group chat" being identified as "Widely understood due to its use in all the most popular messaging apps" and ʿnatural even for people who aren't familiar with those appsʾ. So if that's the answer to my question, then the answer to my question seems to be "no".
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MattJ 13:48:41
All the other choices have negatives
rozzin 13:49:32
The reference to the Google ngrams search for "chat room" is an interesting starting point for s discussion that I wish had happened instead of being treated like the religious interpretation of "a miracle occurs".
rozzin 13:50:01
MattJ: that wasn't my question.
MattJ 13:51:02
We can't get everyone in the world to agree on terminology, I get it (I got that long ago)
Holger 13:51:13
And "being used by popular apps" (esp. popular for the thing in question, public channels) _is_ a rationale, no? You make it sound like common usage would be irrelevant.
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rozzin 13:51:25
Oh, wait—that's not even ngrams, it's *popular searches*.
MattJ 13:51:32
Even within the German-speaking community people are split
Holger 13:51:37
But yes, there's no terminology that would make everyone happy, obviously. Perfect bike shedding topic.
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MattJ 13:52:08
(German as an example of a language with awkward translation of channel)
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rozzin 13:52:18
MattJ: again, not what I said/asked.
MattJ 13:52:38
Okay, then I guess you got your answer
MattJ 13:52:51
Case closed 🙂
Holger 13:53:01
Next customer please.
jonas’ 13:53:11
:bell:
rozzin 13:53:56
Yes. 😁
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*IM* 13:56:10
Holger schrieb: > Next customer please. I'm in the line ...
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rozzin 14:26:31
MattJ: what does "awkward translation of channel" mean BTW?
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Holger 14:27:19
/me invites *IM* to the business support Kanal.
MattJ 14:28:07
The translation of channel into some languages is the word for "canal" (i.e. the waterway)
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MattJ 14:28:53
I'm not a speaker of those languages, so I can't make a judgement, but I personally don't think it is very different to the situation in English
rozzin 14:29:44
I think that's... not how translation works....
MattJ 14:29:51
It's not like many average people would associate "channel" with a group chat, and a channel can also mean a waterway in English
Holger 14:30:19
Yeah, in German it's both a translation of "canal" _and_ of "channel". Though more like the channel in "television channel", i.e. clear seperation of sender and recipients.
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rozzin 14:30:44
I was about to say: Do you guys not have television in Germany? 😁
Holger 14:31:14
But whether or not "channel" is a sane terminology seems somewhat unrelated to the proper translation, no?
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Holger 14:31:55
So all it needs is translation working groups for modernxmpp terms!
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MattJ 14:32:18
It's my feeling that the issue is actually not very related to translation issues, indeed
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MattJ 14:33:05
But nobody can agree on anything, and yet we have to make progress
rozzin 14:34:05
Well, there is an idea: find appropriate native words for "chatroom" in many languages other than English, and then translate *to* English....
Holger 14:34:23
Slack translates "channel" to "channel" so their translation guys do believe "Kanal" is worse 🙂
rozzin 14:35:30
Just wait until clients implement XEP-0033....
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Ellenor Bjornsd. 14:42:51
> Holger wrote: > Slack translates "channel" to "channel" so their translation guys do believe "Kanal" is worse 🙂 IRC client devs historically use Kanal/canal
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rozzin 14:44:15
Ellenor Bjornsd.: is that where the split comes from? "Slack users vs. IRC users"?
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rozzin 14:45:14
As a service operator, XEP-0033 seems quite attractive. As a user, it fills me with dread....
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Ellenor Bjornsd. 15:02:03
dunno
Ellenor Bjornsd. 15:02:05
what's xep 33?
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abdullahi 15:02:26
What is the way to translate the room language to another language for old phones
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*IM* 16:13:43
Please discuss terms in native language. Everything else is wasted time.
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*IM* 16:16:39
French in french chat rooms, chinese in chinese rooms ... spanisch in ... greek in ...
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rozzin 17:59:54
Ellenor Bjornsd., XEP-0033 is "Extended Stanza Addressing": > This specification defines an XMPP protocol extension that enables entities to include RFC822-style address headers within XMPP stanzas in order to specify multiple recipients or sub-addresses.
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Menel 19:04:19
> Slack translates "channel" to "channel" so their translation guys do believe "Kanal" is worse 🙂 Am German and approve this message.. Some things are best left untranslated 😀
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I guess I assumed that Slack got "channel" from IRC since that seemed to be their initial target market, and IRC got that term from CB / HAM / other radio cultures. And presumably there are terms consistently used by those radio cultures in other languages (whether or not they're cognates of "channel"), but Slack being American I'd kind of expect them to just punt on translation whenever/wherever possible....
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etaurus 20:51:18
> Am German and approve this message.. Some things are best left untranslated 😀 +1
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