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ru_maniac
11:24:49
phew, I'd already forgotten what a toxic person Xabber main developer is
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ru_maniac
11:25:44
and I thought I got used to kernel developers lingo on LKML
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Licaon_Kter
11:47:48
ru_maniac: umm? Topic?
ru_maniac
11:48:22
I've dug out an old issue from Xabber's github, one re: OMEMO support
ru_maniac
11:49:06
the one where he basically said "screw audience if they cannot pay me" and asked to provide him with 1 BTC worth of bounty for him to even consider implementing it
ru_maniac
11:50:37
and there were a lot of, let's say, harsh words thrown out from his side
well, Xabber went and died, all is well, and I've mentioned this openly on Twitter, listing as an example of toxic behavior around open-source communities
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ru_maniac
11:51:14
little did I knew, dude decided to start a flame thread)
over his own words from 2017-2019
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ru_maniac
11:52:51
IIRC, btw, people offered some PR's for him back in the day, ready to go
i've no hard quotes though, he cleaned up comments in the issue quite extensively
ru_maniac
11:54:14
I mean, he could've opted out to usual OSS policy: "if you want feature we don't want to code, code it yourself, and if your code is good enough, we'll merge it" -- or straight up said "thanks, i won't implement or merge this in my app" -- both are valid options, IMO
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ru_maniac
11:55:36
instead, he opted out for #3 -- humiliate people based on their wealth, calling them "junkies" along the way (allegedly, some drug users in Russia used Xabber to access illegal marketplaces -- hence the name-calling)
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Martin
12:11:21
Ah, the 'drug addicts and cryptowhores' issue. 😂
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Martin
12:11:45
Wow, is this already over 4 years old. ✎
Martin
12:11:50
Wow, is this already over 4 years old? ✏
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ru_maniac
12:13:02
yep
honestly, I'm baffled that he decided to start a screaming match with me over this -- I've avoided on purpose mentioning him by name or Twitter handle, instead only mentioning the app itself
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ru_maniac
12:15:41
naturally, he replied from Xabber's account, and the rough translation would be:
"What a little stupid fool. You should treat open-source software as a gift and be grateful. Mugs like you tend to think that if they've downloaded the app, I must lick their boots, or I won't have good business"
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ru_maniac
12:17:08
which was followed by
"The thing with OMEMO went like this: you learn to walk before you run. XMPP for a long time was unable to support sending messages reliably, still is -- and now some retards go and ask for OMEMO, stat"
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ru_maniac
12:17:25
I mean, I can see how cheerful and not bitter at all he is
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ru_maniac
12:18:03
(translations are a bit cleaned up, if it's required -- I can back them up with links to original posts, albeit in Russian)
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croax
12:19:04
ru_maniac: this is not the place here for such a discussion
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ru_maniac
12:20:06
my apologies
I've mentioned some server-related questions to the person in question as well, hence the conference choice
croax
12:21:18
no problem, but mixing facts with personal judgments, so there's probably only a bad outcome for this discussion ;-)
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ru_maniac
12:23:14
croax, appreciate it
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Jonny
13:46:04
Hey, can anyone explain why I still have the outdated certificate from LE in my chain? https://xmpp.net/result.php?domain=rimkus.it&type=client is it xmpp.net, which has the old LE certificates installed or my hoster (my hoster uberspace.de) handles the generation of certificate's for my domains ✎
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Jonny
13:46:50
Hey, can anyone explain why I still have the outdated certificate from LE in my chain? https://xmpp.net/result.php?domain=rimkus.it&type=client is it xmpp.net, which has the old LE certificates installed or my hoster (my hoster uberspace.de handles the generation of certificate's for my domains) ✏
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ru_maniac
13:47:46
it's done for compatibility sake
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ru_maniac
13:48:56
older versions of Android do not check the whole cert chain, which allows to support devices which have only DST root embedded
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ru_maniac
13:49:45
it does not affect the security, since up-to-date browsers and OSes will discard expired cert in chain, and proper ISRG root is included in the separate chain anyway
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ru_maniac
13:50:55
but this little trick allows for devices running Android as old as 7.1.1 to still recognize newly issued certs as the valid ones, with no extra configuration
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Jonny
13:54:00
Hmm so I have to live with the "T" result? sooner or later I'll wish to have my "A" result back🙃
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Menel
13:55:05
Xmpp.net is in the wrong, not your server
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Menel
13:55:29
Its old and outdated and *A+* doesn't mean much
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Menel
13:56:19
Modern curves are not even supportet
Jonny
13:56:28
Anyone tried to host the docker image elsewhere?
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Menel
13:57:33
Is it really just docker?
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Jonny
13:57:40
Menel: thx I understand, but I like the concept behind it and helps to gain trust for new non tech user's. And I haven't discovered an alternative yet
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Jonny
13:58:10
Menel: when you visit the GitHub repo there's a docker file for running your own instance
Menel
13:58:12
use testssl.sh -t xmpp your.server.tld:5269
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Jonny
13:58:22
I'll haven't tried out yet
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Jonny
13:58:38
Menel: thx will try out
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Menel
13:59:01
There are also other online services. But I forgot the site..
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ru_maniac
14:08:42
Jonny, is there an option for you to run certbot by yourself?
ru_maniac
14:08:57
you can force it to issue certs which are signed only by ISRG root
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ru_maniac
14:09:17
with that said, you'll drop support for older OSes
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Jonny
14:11:02
I could run certbot by myself have to check how to do it easily, in worst case I'll have to switch DNS entries temporary
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ru_maniac
14:11:44
the command line argument you're looking for is this one
ru_maniac
14:11:45
--preferred-chain "ISRG Root X1"
Jonny
14:11:54
ru_maniac: great thx
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ru_maniac
14:12:08
just make sure that your certbot is up to date
ru_maniac
14:12:35
i had to install it via snap, the one that Debian has in its repos is quite outdated
Jonny
14:12:55
ru_maniac: will do, but I'll also want to try the docker image of xmpp.net
Jonny
14:13:20
Hmm I don't like snaps, anyway the system of my hoster is centos
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14:13:40
So I won't use a package for it
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ru_maniac
14:13:55
i'm pretty sure that you can install it via source or appimage, but can't be 100% sure
ru_maniac
14:14:12
as for the Docker version: eh, I would imagine it would be faster than public service, but probably will produce the same results
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ru_maniac
14:15:40
in any event, I wouldn't pay much attention to XMPP.net results -- as Menel mentioned, it is quite old and out-of-date service, in terms of security checks and metrics
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14:16:20
My hope is that using it with a more recent base system image and installing the recent deb packages it leads to the new certificates in /etc/ssl
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Jonny
14:16:57
Maybe I should then first try testssl.sh first
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ru_maniac
14:17:22
won't produce results which are any different
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ru_maniac
14:17:44
the knack here is that while old Android doesn't check the whole cert chain, modern Linux and Windows do
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ru_maniac
14:18:29
as such, it will fail regardless, due to the xmpp.net's logic -- if one of the CAs gone bad, the whole trust chain gone bad
ru_maniac
14:19:37
i've forced my own server to use only ISRG chain, and xmpp.net reports valid results -- at least, in terms of cert configuration
so this is not an issue of older or newer certs at /etc/ssl
ru_maniac
14:20:01
it's an issue because the cert your server is currently using has DST cross-sign in it
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ru_maniac
14:20:31
once you'll upgrade to ISRG chain only, it'll work properly for XMPP.net -- and should work right now for pretty much any use, other than "security benchmarking"
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ru_maniac
14:22:04
do check your logs and see whether there are any errors for s2s or c2s connections related to cert trust issues -- if there are none, you're probably good to go
Jonny
14:22:40
ru_maniac: thx, so the only way of getting rid of the outdated certificate in my chain is to re-create my certificate with the switch you mentioned above right?
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ru_maniac
14:23:08
if you'd like to get that "A" in the bench results, whilst continue to use LE -- I would say, yes
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ru_maniac
14:24:18
once again, I'd like to stress out that this is an issue limited only to how XMPP.net interprets certificate chain check results
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ru_maniac
14:24:51
in terms of actually establishing connection to client or another server, the presence of an older expired root CA should matter none
ru_maniac
14:25:27
so in my opinion, you may do nothing unless you really have to, for some reason -- your security won't be affected
Jonny
14:25:30
ru_maniac: thank you 🫂✌️
ru_maniac
14:25:42
my pleasure
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