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  1132. ru_maniac phew, I'd already forgotten what a toxic person Xabber main developer is
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  1139. ru_maniac and I thought I got used to kernel developers lingo on LKML
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  1193. Licaon_Kter ru_maniac: umm? Topic?
  1194. ru_maniac I've dug out an old issue from Xabber's github, one re: OMEMO support
  1195. ru_maniac the one where he basically said "screw audience if they cannot pay me" and asked to provide him with 1 BTC worth of bounty for him to even consider implementing it
  1196. ru_maniac and there were a lot of, let's say, harsh words thrown out from his side well, Xabber went and died, all is well, and I've mentioned this openly on Twitter, listing as an example of toxic behavior around open-source communities
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  1198. ru_maniac little did I knew, dude decided to start a flame thread) over his own words from 2017-2019
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  1206. ru_maniac IIRC, btw, people offered some PR's for him back in the day, ready to go i've no hard quotes though, he cleaned up comments in the issue quite extensively
  1207. ru_maniac I mean, he could've opted out to usual OSS policy: "if you want feature we don't want to code, code it yourself, and if your code is good enough, we'll merge it" -- or straight up said "thanks, i won't implement or merge this in my app" -- both are valid options, IMO
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  1215. ru_maniac instead, he opted out for #3 -- humiliate people based on their wealth, calling them "junkies" along the way (allegedly, some drug users in Russia used Xabber to access illegal marketplaces -- hence the name-calling)
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  1271. Martin Ah, the 'drug addicts and cryptowhores' issue. 😂
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  1273. Martin Wow, is this already over 4 years old.
  1274. Martin Wow, is this already over 4 years old?
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  1282. ru_maniac yep honestly, I'm baffled that he decided to start a screaming match with me over this -- I've avoided on purpose mentioning him by name or Twitter handle, instead only mentioning the app itself
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  1294. ru_maniac naturally, he replied from Xabber's account, and the rough translation would be: "What a little stupid fool. You should treat open-source software as a gift and be grateful. Mugs like you tend to think that if they've downloaded the app, I must lick their boots, or I won't have good business"
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  1303. ru_maniac which was followed by "The thing with OMEMO went like this: you learn to walk before you run. XMPP for a long time was unable to support sending messages reliably, still is -- and now some retards go and ask for OMEMO, stat"
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  1306. ru_maniac I mean, I can see how cheerful and not bitter at all he is
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  1309. ru_maniac (translations are a bit cleaned up, if it's required -- I can back them up with links to original posts, albeit in Russian)
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  1312. croax ru_maniac: this is not the place here for such a discussion
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  1316. ru_maniac my apologies I've mentioned some server-related questions to the person in question as well, hence the conference choice
  1317. croax no problem, but mixing facts with personal judgments, so there's probably only a bad outcome for this discussion ;-)
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  1327. ru_maniac croax, appreciate it
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  1547. Jonny Hey, can anyone explain why I still have the outdated certificate from LE in my chain? https://xmpp.net/result.php?domain=rimkus.it&type=client is it xmpp.net, which has the old LE certificates installed or my hoster (my hoster uberspace.de) handles the generation of certificate's for my domains
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  1553. Jonny Hey, can anyone explain why I still have the outdated certificate from LE in my chain? https://xmpp.net/result.php?domain=rimkus.it&type=client is it xmpp.net, which has the old LE certificates installed or my hoster (my hoster uberspace.de handles the generation of certificate's for my domains)
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  1560. ru_maniac it's done for compatibility sake
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  1563. ru_maniac older versions of Android do not check the whole cert chain, which allows to support devices which have only DST root embedded
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  1566. ru_maniac it does not affect the security, since up-to-date browsers and OSes will discard expired cert in chain, and proper ISRG root is included in the separate chain anyway
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  1568. ru_maniac but this little trick allows for devices running Android as old as 7.1.1 to still recognize newly issued certs as the valid ones, with no extra configuration
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  1577. Jonny Hmm so I have to live with the "T" result? sooner or later I'll wish to have my "A" result back🙃
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  1580. Menel Xmpp.net is in the wrong, not your server
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  1582. Menel Its old and outdated and *A+* doesn't mean much
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  1584. Menel Modern curves are not even supportet
  1585. Jonny Anyone tried to host the docker image elsewhere?
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  1592. Menel Is it really just docker?
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  1594. Jonny Menel: thx I understand, but I like the concept behind it and helps to gain trust for new non tech user's. And I haven't discovered an alternative yet
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  1596. Jonny Menel: when you visit the GitHub repo there's a docker file for running your own instance
  1597. Menel use testssl.sh -t xmpp your.server.tld:5269
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  1599. Jonny I'll haven't tried out yet
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  1601. Jonny Menel: thx will try out
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  1603. Menel There are also other online services. But I forgot the site..
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  1637. ru_maniac Jonny, is there an option for you to run certbot by yourself?
  1638. ru_maniac you can force it to issue certs which are signed only by ISRG root
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  1640. ru_maniac with that said, you'll drop support for older OSes
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  1642. Jonny I could run certbot by myself have to check how to do it easily, in worst case I'll have to switch DNS entries temporary
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  1646. ru_maniac the command line argument you're looking for is this one
  1647. ru_maniac --preferred-chain "ISRG Root X1"
  1648. Jonny ru_maniac: great thx
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  1651. ru_maniac just make sure that your certbot is up to date
  1652. ru_maniac i had to install it via snap, the one that Debian has in its repos is quite outdated
  1653. Jonny ru_maniac: will do, but I'll also want to try the docker image of xmpp.net
  1654. Jonny Hmm I don't like snaps, anyway the system of my hoster is centos
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  1657. Jonny So I won't use a package for it
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  1659. ru_maniac i'm pretty sure that you can install it via source or appimage, but can't be 100% sure
  1660. ru_maniac as for the Docker version: eh, I would imagine it would be faster than public service, but probably will produce the same results
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  1667. ru_maniac in any event, I wouldn't pay much attention to XMPP.net results -- as Menel mentioned, it is quite old and out-of-date service, in terms of security checks and metrics
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  1669. Jonny My hope is that using it with a more recent base system image and installing the recent deb packages it leads to the new certificates in /etc/ssl
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  1671. Jonny Maybe I should then first try testssl.sh first
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  1673. ru_maniac won't produce results which are any different
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  1675. ru_maniac the knack here is that while old Android doesn't check the whole cert chain, modern Linux and Windows do
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  1677. ru_maniac as such, it will fail regardless, due to the xmpp.net's logic -- if one of the CAs gone bad, the whole trust chain gone bad
  1678. ru_maniac i've forced my own server to use only ISRG chain, and xmpp.net reports valid results -- at least, in terms of cert configuration so this is not an issue of older or newer certs at /etc/ssl
  1679. ru_maniac it's an issue because the cert your server is currently using has DST cross-sign in it
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  1682. ru_maniac once you'll upgrade to ISRG chain only, it'll work properly for XMPP.net -- and should work right now for pretty much any use, other than "security benchmarking"
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  1688. ru_maniac do check your logs and see whether there are any errors for s2s or c2s connections related to cert trust issues -- if there are none, you're probably good to go
  1689. Jonny ru_maniac: thx, so the only way of getting rid of the outdated certificate in my chain is to re-create my certificate with the switch you mentioned above right?
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  1691. ru_maniac if you'd like to get that "A" in the bench results, whilst continue to use LE -- I would say, yes
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  1693. ru_maniac once again, I'd like to stress out that this is an issue limited only to how XMPP.net interprets certificate chain check results
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  1695. ru_maniac in terms of actually establishing connection to client or another server, the presence of an older expired root CA should matter none
  1696. ru_maniac so in my opinion, you may do nothing unless you really have to, for some reason -- your security won't be affected
  1697. Jonny ru_maniac: thank you 🫂✌️
  1698. ru_maniac my pleasure
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