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Sapotaceae
Any work on a list of servers with stringent account creation requirements? So that we have have a default deny for s2s that doesn't adhere?
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Sapotaceae
Like an opt-in system for servers
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Sapotaceae
There is already the jabberspam blocklist, we need an allowlist
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MattJ
e.g. a "you definitely will never receive spam from these servers" list?
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Sapotaceae
Nah
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MattJ
I think such a thing would never be possible
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Sapotaceae
Obviously not possible, but just something to raise the bar
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MattJ
How would the list be used?
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Sapotaceae
Added as an acl to server?
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MattJ
So deny s2s from servers not on the list?
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Sapotaceae
Yes
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Licaon_Kter
What happens when you get spam from such a server?
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MattJ
I don't want to see such a thing happen, if we can help it
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MattJ
and I certainly don't see it as necessary right now
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Sapotaceae
Closed federation
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Sapotaceae
I guess?
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MattJ
If you want a closed federation, go for it, but it's not something I want to support
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Sapotaceae
I don't, but I think we should have options. Maybe maintain the list and promote not enforcing it, just permissive
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MattJ
If/when spammers decide that setting up new XMPP servers is easier than mass-registering accounts on existing ones, we may need something like this
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Sapotaceae
So it could be quickly toggled if need be
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MattJ
But that never really happened for SMTP, so it may never happen for XMPP
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MattJ
and all we'd probably need in that case is to track when a server was first seen on the network
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MattJ
A closed federation would seriously harm the growth of the network - it would make it harder for people to self-host, and favour larger providers. I'm very much against large providers (since what happened with Google Talk).
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MattJ
So I value very much that anybody can just start a server and communicate with anyone else on XMPP
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MattJ
We have a spam problem, but I feel we have it under control these days
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MattJ
and ironically it is public servers, not self-hosted ones, that are the source of the spam
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MattJ
i.e. most spam comes from a disproportionately small number of servers
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croax
And the bigger they are, the harder it will be to constraint their policy or ban them
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croax
So yeah, please blocklists, not the opposite!
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Sapotaceae
What is status of portable accounts then?
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Sapotaceae
To make it easier from users to switch away from such blocked servers?
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MattJ
I or someone needs to polish https://migrate.modernxmpp.org/ :)
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emus
polish in what what?✎ -
MattJ
I'm currently building import/export into Snikket, and the foundations will be in Prosody. But Prosody doesn't ship with a web interface, so public server operators would have to build such functionality, or export it manually on behalf of users. migrate.modernxmpp.org is an attempt to recognise that those things won't happen, and we need a service-agnostic way for users to suck their data out of any XMPP service
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emus
polish in what way? ✏
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emus
👍
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emus
yes that was create out of this nasty story this summer i think
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MattJ
emus, it has some issues that need to be resolved. A big one is that it connects directly to XMPP servers, so they need to have XEP-0156 info published (many servers do not).
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MattJ
It also doesn't currently support exporting all data yet, only your roster and vCard at the moment
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mjk
MattJ: there's no format for message archive export yet?
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Licaon_Kter
Or pep?
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MattJ
There is, I added it to XEP-0227 as part of the funded project
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MattJ
PEP too
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mjk
Oh, that's great
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MattJ
https://docs.modernxmpp.org/projects/portability/ needs to be updated with latest progress...
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MattJ
But it has links to the changes
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croax
MattJ: maybe I should read some documentation before asking but wouldn't it be better if was a client-side feature?
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MattJ
Yes, it would, but it's good to have both options
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MattJ
Otherwise we have to wait for every client to implement it, but if you implement it on the server it's just available to you right away
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croax
Oh great both options considered. Thanks.
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MattJ
But of course if you're on a server without support, then having it in your client is handy too :)
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MattJ
and migrate.modernxmpp.org is basically a web client that anyone can use even if your server and clients don't support it, so it's the best of both
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croax
Oh, I see. Brilliant.
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MattJ
That's why it was important to update XEP-0227, so wherever it gets implemented, everything will still be compatible
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emus
MattJ: maybe we should bring more attention to it
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ru_maniac
btw, this account portability tool -- does it require something specific, like BOSH support, to be enabled on the server side?
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ru_maniac
I would like to dump some data from an old account, which is located on a server I do not wish to store my data at anymore. I can request account's deletion, but a copy of some data would be nice.
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ru_maniac
I mean, I read a bit, and haven't found any specific reqs list