XMPP Service Operators - 2022-01-06


  1. Sapotaceae

    Any work on a list of servers with stringent account creation requirements? So that we have have a default deny for s2s that doesn't adhere?

  2. Sapotaceae

    Like an opt-in system for servers

  3. Sapotaceae

    There is already the jabberspam blocklist, we need an allowlist

  4. MattJ

    e.g. a "you definitely will never receive spam from these servers" list?

  5. Sapotaceae

    Nah

  6. MattJ

    I think such a thing would never be possible

  7. Sapotaceae

    Obviously not possible, but just something to raise the bar

  8. MattJ

    How would the list be used?

  9. Sapotaceae

    Added as an acl to server?

  10. MattJ

    So deny s2s from servers not on the list?

  11. Sapotaceae

    Yes

  12. Licaon_Kter

    What happens when you get spam from such a server?

  13. MattJ

    I don't want to see such a thing happen, if we can help it

  14. MattJ

    and I certainly don't see it as necessary right now

  15. Sapotaceae

    Closed federation

  16. Sapotaceae

    I guess?

  17. MattJ

    If you want a closed federation, go for it, but it's not something I want to support

  18. Sapotaceae

    I don't, but I think we should have options. Maybe maintain the list and promote not enforcing it, just permissive

  19. MattJ

    If/when spammers decide that setting up new XMPP servers is easier than mass-registering accounts on existing ones, we may need something like this

  20. Sapotaceae

    So it could be quickly toggled if need be

  21. MattJ

    But that never really happened for SMTP, so it may never happen for XMPP

  22. MattJ

    and all we'd probably need in that case is to track when a server was first seen on the network

  23. MattJ

    A closed federation would seriously harm the growth of the network - it would make it harder for people to self-host, and favour larger providers. I'm very much against large providers (since what happened with Google Talk).

  24. MattJ

    So I value very much that anybody can just start a server and communicate with anyone else on XMPP

  25. MattJ

    We have a spam problem, but I feel we have it under control these days

  26. MattJ

    and ironically it is public servers, not self-hosted ones, that are the source of the spam

  27. MattJ

    i.e. most spam comes from a disproportionately small number of servers

  28. croax

    And the bigger they are, the harder it will be to constraint their policy or ban them

  29. croax

    So yeah, please blocklists, not the opposite!

  30. Sapotaceae

    What is status of portable accounts then?

  31. Sapotaceae

    To make it easier from users to switch away from such blocked servers?

  32. MattJ

    I or someone needs to polish https://migrate.modernxmpp.org/ :)

  33. emus

    polish in what what?

  34. MattJ

    I'm currently building import/export into Snikket, and the foundations will be in Prosody. But Prosody doesn't ship with a web interface, so public server operators would have to build such functionality, or export it manually on behalf of users. migrate.modernxmpp.org is an attempt to recognise that those things won't happen, and we need a service-agnostic way for users to suck their data out of any XMPP service

  35. emus

    polish in what way?

  36. emus

    👍

  37. emus

    yes that was create out of this nasty story this summer i think

  38. MattJ

    emus, it has some issues that need to be resolved. A big one is that it connects directly to XMPP servers, so they need to have XEP-0156 info published (many servers do not).

  39. MattJ

    It also doesn't currently support exporting all data yet, only your roster and vCard at the moment

  40. mjk

    MattJ: there's no format for message archive export yet?

  41. Licaon_Kter

    Or pep?

  42. MattJ

    There is, I added it to XEP-0227 as part of the funded project

  43. MattJ

    PEP too

  44. mjk

    Oh, that's great

  45. MattJ

    https://docs.modernxmpp.org/projects/portability/ needs to be updated with latest progress...

  46. MattJ

    But it has links to the changes

  47. croax

    MattJ: maybe I should read some documentation before asking but wouldn't it be better if was a client-side feature?

  48. MattJ

    Yes, it would, but it's good to have both options

  49. MattJ

    Otherwise we have to wait for every client to implement it, but if you implement it on the server it's just available to you right away

  50. croax

    Oh great both options considered. Thanks.

  51. MattJ

    But of course if you're on a server without support, then having it in your client is handy too :)

  52. MattJ

    and migrate.modernxmpp.org is basically a web client that anyone can use even if your server and clients don't support it, so it's the best of both

  53. croax

    Oh, I see. Brilliant.

  54. MattJ

    That's why it was important to update XEP-0227, so wherever it gets implemented, everything will still be compatible

  55. emus

    MattJ: maybe we should bring more attention to it

  56. ru_maniac

    btw, this account portability tool -- does it require something specific, like BOSH support, to be enabled on the server side?

  57. ru_maniac

    I would like to dump some data from an old account, which is located on a server I do not wish to store my data at anymore. I can request account's deletion, but a copy of some data would be nice.

  58. ru_maniac

    I mean, I read a bit, and haven't found any specific reqs list