XMPP Service Operators - 2022-01-06

Any work on a list of servers with stringent account creation requirements? So that we have have a default deny for s2s that doesn't adhere?

Like an opt-in system for servers

There is already the jabberspam blocklist, we need an allowlist

e.g. a "you definitely will never receive spam from these servers" list?

Nah

I think such a thing would never be possible

Obviously not possible, but just something to raise the bar

How would the list be used?

Added as an acl to server?

So deny s2s from servers not on the list?

Yes

What happens when you get spam from such a server?

I don't want to see such a thing happen, if we can help it

and I certainly don't see it as necessary right now

Closed federation

I guess?

If you want a closed federation, go for it, but it's not something I want to support

I don't, but I think we should have options. Maybe maintain the list and promote not enforcing it, just permissive

If/when spammers decide that setting up new XMPP servers is easier than mass-registering accounts on existing ones, we may need something like this

So it could be quickly toggled if need be

But that never really happened for SMTP, so it may never happen for XMPP

and all we'd probably need in that case is to track when a server was first seen on the network

A closed federation would seriously harm the growth of the network - it would make it harder for people to self-host, and favour larger providers. I'm very much against large providers (since what happened with Google Talk).

So I value very much that anybody can just start a server and communicate with anyone else on XMPP

We have a spam problem, but I feel we have it under control these days

and ironically it is public servers, not self-hosted ones, that are the source of the spam

i.e. most spam comes from a disproportionately small number of servers

And the bigger they are, the harder it will be to constraint their policy or ban them

So yeah, please blocklists, not the opposite!

What is status of portable accounts then?

To make it easier from users to switch away from such blocked servers?

I or someone needs to polish https://migrate.modernxmpp.org/ :)

I'm currently building import/export into Snikket, and the foundations will be in Prosody. But Prosody doesn't ship with a web interface, so public server operators would have to build such functionality, or export it manually on behalf of users. migrate.modernxmpp.org is an attempt to recognise that those things won't happen, and we need a service-agnostic way for users to suck their data out of any XMPP service

polish in what way? ✏

👍

yes that was create out of this nasty story this summer i think

emus, it has some issues that need to be resolved. A big one is that it connects directly to XMPP servers, so they need to have XEP-0156 info published (many servers do not).

It also doesn't currently support exporting all data yet, only your roster and vCard at the moment

MattJ: there's no format for message archive export yet?

Or pep?

There is, I added it to XEP-0227 as part of the funded project

PEP too

Oh, that's great

https://docs.modernxmpp.org/projects/portability/ needs to be updated with latest progress...

But it has links to the changes

MattJ: maybe I should read some documentation before asking but wouldn't it be better if was a client-side feature?

Yes, it would, but it's good to have both options

Otherwise we have to wait for every client to implement it, but if you implement it on the server it's just available to you right away

Oh great both options considered. Thanks.

But of course if you're on a server without support, then having it in your client is handy too :)

and migrate.modernxmpp.org is basically a web client that anyone can use even if your server and clients don't support it, so it's the best of both

Oh, I see. Brilliant.

That's why it was important to update XEP-0227, so wherever it gets implemented, everything will still be compatible

MattJ: maybe we should bring more attention to it