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12:23:00 smooth_operator
i use arch btw
so of course i have bidi on!
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smooth_operator:
> i use arch btw
Be gone daemon!!!!!
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12:32:47 smooth_operator
your loss ;)
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smooth_operator: https://www.moparisthebest.com/images/i-only-use-arch-linux.png
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lol. so i was looking at https://xmpp.net "IM Observatory". it says it's unmaintained. is there a replacement?
12:43:52 smooth_operator
disheartening to see (in the last 30 days):
- 40% of servers support TLS 1.0
- only 65% require TLS for s2s
12:44:09 moparisthebest
yes but I've been forbidden from sharing the URL because it's not yet ready :D
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I wouldn't trust any of those stats, iirc it can't even handshake with modern TLS servers
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yeah i did see tls 1.2 is its limit
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12:45:03 smooth_operator
cool well can you hurry it up ;)
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the replacement?
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12:46:22 Menel
In reality, my sever connects to ever server via tls1.3 and all have valid certs.
Except maybe two with tls1.2
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12:47:54 smooth_operator
i see the same so far. but downgrade attacks are probably a thing
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12:48:37 moparisthebest
shouldn't be, that was mitigated maybe a decade ago at this point
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12:53:19 smooth_operator
like preventing a server from doing tls 1.2 and making it fallback to 1.0, stuff like that is possible right?
12:53:44 smooth_operator
assuming the servers haven't explicitly disable <tls1.2
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12:53:56 Menel
But we have
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nope that shouldn't be possible since about a decade ago
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Its Prosody default
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I think it dates from the POODLE days https://crashtest-security.com/enable-tls-fallback-scsv/
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ok openssl added support in 2014 so 8 years not 10 sue me :D https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv/20141015.txt
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12:59:56 MattJ
https://blog.prosody.im/prosody-0-9-6-released/
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Yes, 2014 :)
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hmm maybe i'm stuck in the 2010s
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the 35% of servers that don't require TLS over s2s still means encryption isn't as ubiquous. i don't see why an op wouldn't want it
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(35% of servers tested by xmpp.net over the past 30 days)
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But I think that's wrong, it's broken so it can only talk to servers without encryption or with very old encryption
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Maybe fallback? As long as your sever requires encryption z it will never be a problem for you
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So it can't talk with most of the network which is very secure
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Yea my server has required TLS everywhere since probably 2014 and I've never met a server I couldn't talk to, except Gmail back then, but that's gone
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oh okay, if those stats are wrong, it would be invalid to draw conclusions, so i retract
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when i first got my server up (on 0.11), i thought it supported tls 1.0. then i upgraded to 0.12 and set the profile to modern, which restricts to tls 1.3 only
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(0.11 / 0.12 prosody)
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tools like the observatory, ssllabs, etc are good to verify. otherwise some researcher will find a bug and act like they are able to compromise the whole network
13:25:57 Menel
You can use ssllabs if you enable direct TLS on port 443.
And test your sever..
Or just so it yourself better with testssl.sh
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yeah i get that, but i don't wanna only help myself
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13:29:57 Menel
Others is helped with default config of ejabberd and prosody.
And if one messes around with it, one should be able to check it too
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13:38:10 smooth_operator
right. so let's make the default TLS_CHACHA20_POLY1305_SHA256, Ed25519 certs, X25519, and we can go home early today? ;)
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13:38:53 Menel
Minus chacha that is my default
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keep in mind some run ~~lesser~~stable distros that won't have those things for *years*
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it's best to stick with mozilla TLS recommendations which are good and improve with time
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shoulda used arch
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13:39:41 Menel
But I want to do s2s even with tls1.2 only servers.
Its secure enough.
(Otherwise you put omemo on top anyways)
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13:41:48 Menel
And who knows if curves are more secure then rsa 4096 certs?
Quantum secure etc. (Just for your angst) 😀
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Ecdscadsa12345
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13:47:09 jonas’
for testing, you can also use https://xmpp.net/preview/. should be slightly better than the plain one, but not as polished yet
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13:47:38 Licaon_Kter
testssl.sh can cope with xmpp iirc
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jonas’, possible that should just be made the default regardless, those unencrypted+tls 1.0 stats are pretty scary if you don't realize the reason
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Licaon_Kter: testssl.sh is the backend to the new xmpp.net thing
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Nice, minus the old _xmppconnect
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jonas’: oooj
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jonas’: cool thanks!
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14:17:37 smooth_operator
just wondering: is there like a security standards group in the xmpp community?
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14:18:17 jonas’
not sure if there's anything dedicated to that, but the standards mailing list is sufficiently low-traffic that that would be a sensible place to discuss such topics
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cool i'll look that up
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16:01:07 raver
> for testing, you can also use https://xmpp.net/preview/. should be slightly better than the plain one, but not as polished yet
Nice, what's that new `_xmppconnect TXT records` for? Any advice how to setup for ejabberd available?
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raver: no, its for nothing and to be removed.
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Menel: thx🙂✌️
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https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html
> A previous version of this XEP defined a DNS method to look up this info using a TXT _xmppconnect record, this was insecure and has been removed.
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We can re-add it in the world where dnssec is mandatory I suppose?
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17:12:11 raver
Menel, do you know why the altconnect endpoints results in error, allthough I'm successfully using bosh/websocket with converse.js?
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Menel, https://xmpp.net/preview/scan/result/72
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17:14:04 Menel
No, can only say its a preview.
If you can connect from https://m.conversejs.org/
To *your* server, then it works in reality
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Your selfhosted conversejs likely doesn't count, since you entered the endpoint in the config yourself
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Menel: iirc it should autodetect if you don't mention it
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Menel, yep works
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Menel, but with some erros: WebSocket connection to 'wss://xmpp.rimkus.it:46786/ws' failed: Data frame received after close
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ah I see the error in the chat window of this muc
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Test from Converse.js official
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hahahahaha
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sorry for the offtop but i was reffering to one person from my IRL as raver-menel :D
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just yesterday
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