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kuba_
10:26:54
i don't know if it's right place for this question, sorry if it's not:
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kuba_
10:26:59
is there any site that monitors xmpp servs uptime?
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mathieui
10:32:37
You mean, the duration?
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MattJ
10:34:52
kuba_, if you want to know the current status and history of a public server's uptime, this may be useful: https://status.conversations.im/
MattJ
10:35:10
If you run a server and want to monitor it, this may be useful: https://observe.jabber.network/
MattJ
10:35:31
If you want to do a quick check of any server: https://xmpp-connectivity-check.mwild1.repl.co/
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kuba_
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MattJ: tyvm. 1st link is what i needed
kuba_
10:44:06
https://status.conversations.im/historical/ to be exact
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Menel
10:53:18
There are also some other Websites in the wildy that track that.. But I don't have the links anymore...
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Trung
11:07:18
thanks Menel!
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Menel
11:53:52
Found it https://www.jabberes.org/servers/servers_by_uptime.html
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Menel
11:55:53
Not quite up to date anymore it seems
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kuba_
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Menel: thx anyway
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MattJ
13:14:31
General FYI: I've relocated https://xmpp-connectivity-check.mwild1.repl.co/ to https://connect.xmpp.net/ (shorter URL and more trustworthy host 😉)
edhelas
13:16:23
Test took 0.3338691517710686 seconds
edhelas
13:16:34
What a precise time 👌
mjk
13:19:02
string.format('%.16f', t) ?
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Ge0rG
13:21:22
pressing [enter] in the input box does not submit the form
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mjk
13:23:01
...and it demands I identify ducks in pictures to view the source code
Ge0rG
13:24:20
but you don't give a duck?
mjk
13:24:22
_after_ being cloudwalled
mjk
13:24:35
Ge0rG: not even a flying one
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mjk
13:26:59
somewhat relatedly, I can't seem to duckduckgo documentaion for foorl... or indeed anything relevant at all
Ge0rG
13:29:00
foorl is just the bot's name, the code is at https://github.com/horazont/xmpp-crowd
MattJ
13:30:47
mjk, browser menu -> view source
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mjk
13:30:52
d'oh!
MattJ
13:30:57
Ducks identification is one reason I'm moving it
mjk
13:31:07
thanks both Ge0rG and MattJ
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mjk
13:39:55
ah, so %.16f is how o.j.n formats the response json
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mjk
13:40:06
or some equivalent
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MattJ
13:40:58
Okay, pushed some visual improvements, submit on enter, and some rounding on the test duration :)
mjk
13:41:17
👍️
Ge0rG
13:41:23
þo/ ✎
Ge0rG
13:41:24
\o/ ✏
MattJ
13:41:28
Haven't fixed the source link, I'll do that once I've actually moved to a new repo
mjk
13:42:12
it could just link to view-source: fwiw :D
MattJ
13:42:31
It could, but I'm not sure if that is a standard across browsers... :)
mjk
13:42:38
right
MattJ
13:43:00
> On 25 May 2011, the 'view-source' URI scheme was officially registered with IANA per RFC 4395.
MattJ
13:43:03
So...!
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mjk
13:43:18
orrr serve the same page as text/plain!
mjk
13:45:20
oh, also noticed there's no <noscript> warning that js is required
Ge0rG
13:45:48
"Connection failed!" 😥
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mjk
13:46:08
now that I enabled js, same here
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MattJ
13:51:23
Connection failed to what?
mjk
13:51:44
snikket.chat
mjk
13:52:05
hm. dev.snikket.chat works
MattJ
13:52:13
snikket.chat isn't an XMPP service, so that's expected
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mjk
13:52:28
sry for the noise then :)
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Zash
13:59:31
MattJ, IN SRV 0 0 0 . ?
MattJ
14:00:34
Could do, yes
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Ge0rG
14:04:48
MattJ: Connection failed to a test host that doesn't serve XMPP. What I wanted to point out is that there is no specific error message about what went wrong
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MattJ
14:06:33
Sure, it's just meant to be a quick "is it up?" tool
MattJ
14:07:05
Once the new xmpp.net is live, it can link to that for more advanced information
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Zash
14:08:38
xmpp:no-service.badxmpp.eu has `IN SRV 0 0 0 .` so could compare with that
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moparisthebest
15:04:13
But without DNSSEC clients/servers shouldn't trust that and should attempt to connect anyway
Zash
15:04:43
Sigh.
MattJ
15:05:03
Does it make a difference? Without DNSSEC there are many other ways to mess around with the results and stop clients successfully connecting.
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MattJ
15:05:17
I think you're just saying, "DNSSEC should be used" :)
moparisthebest
15:06:01
Well it should be but if the domain doesn't have it enabled... Still shouldn't trust it
moparisthebest
15:06:45
There are many ways yes, but also highly likely an attacker that can mess with DNS can't or doesn't block other connections, no harm in trying
MattJ
15:06:46
But that's just the same as saying it shouldn't trust anything without DNSSEC
Zash
15:07:00
Other direction! Don't connect to anything without DNSSEC!
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moparisthebest
15:09:01
> But that's just the same as saying it shouldn't trust anything without DNSSEC
Right, we don't trust, we verify, in the srv records existing case that means checking the cert names match the original domain name, in the srv record . case that means connecting anyway
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MattJ
15:10:46
Good point, but it makes no practical difference in this case
MattJ
15:11:18
The point of injecting '.' would be to deny access to a legitimate domain. If the client ignores that, the attacker should just inject an invalid SRV target instead.
MattJ
15:11:39
Cert verification will fail, but... access successfully denied
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moparisthebest
15:12:20
Either way there is no harm in trying to connect directly to 5222/5269 and 443, it might get through
MattJ
15:12:36
Depends whether there is an attacker messing with your DNS :)
Zash
15:12:38
You're saying "Just always ignore SRV records"
MattJ
15:12:53
It's not unique to SRV though - they can just mess with A records
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moparisthebest
15:13:10
No, I'm saying we never trust them anyway, why would . be deserving of special trust
Zash
15:13:15
Fallback was a mistake, we should have mandated SRV records
MattJ
15:14:00
. isn't deserving of special trust, it's treated equally and the effect is ultimately no better or worse than an attacker modifying any other DNS response
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MattJ
15:15:41
If anything, denying a connection is safer from a client perspective than being redirected to an attacker's server (which may gather IPs, or host some TLS exploit, or whatever)
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Maranda
15:28:35
> <Zash> Other direction! Don't connect to anything without DNSSEC!
Aka any .im domain 😏
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Ge0rG
15:30:46
,oO( .IM TLD DNSSEC DLV DANE XMPP TLSA RR )
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MattJ
15:33:11
Nobody noticed me accidentally roll out broken DNSSEC for *.snikket.chat this week (except observe.jabber.network, kudos). I think we have a long way to go until DNSSEC saves anyone :)
Ge0rG
15:34:10
how do you call a long way that's getting longer faster than you move along it?
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Maranda
15:37:36
```
~# dig ds im.
; <<>> DiG 9.16.29 <<>> ds im.
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 27924
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1
;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4000
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;im. IN DS
;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
. 882 IN SOA a.root-servers.net. nstld.verisign-grs.com. 2022100600 1800 900 604800 86400
```
mjk
15:37:36
Ge0rG: DNS Adventures in Mirror World?
Maranda
is puzzled by Ge0rG bubble.
15:37:49
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Maranda
15:38:45
For a second you illuded me, I could get an answer to that
Ge0rG
15:38:52
Maranda: https://op-co.de/blog/posts/yax_im_dnssec/
Ge0rG
15:39:35
That was around 2016, before DLV got ditched due to widespread availability of DNSSEC
Maranda
15:41:39
hehe
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Ge0rG
15:44:19
> Currently, StartSSL and WoSign offer free certificates, and Let's Encrypt is about to launch.
This is ancient!
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Zash
15:45:38
StartWHAT and WhoSign?
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Ge0rG
15:48:05
WHO? That escalated quickly!
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15:48:58
vaccine certs?
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moparisthebest
16:33:23
> Nobody noticed me accidentally roll out broken DNSSEC for *.snikket.chat this week (except observe.jabber.network, kudos). I think we have a long way to go until DNSSEC saves anyone :)
Which is unfortunately why my already implemented but not written down in XEP form discovery for QUIC doesn't use DNS but instead an https request like host-meta.json :'(
moparisthebest
16:34:09
But at least it has a flag where if it's set means you don't need to do any srv or posh lookups at all...
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MattJ
16:35:24
Yes, please write that spec :)
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Maranda
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> <moparisthebest> > Nobody noticed me accidentally roll out broken DNSSEC for *.snikket.chat this week (except observe.jabber.network, kudos). I think we have a long way to go until DNSSEC saves anyone :)
>
> Which is unfortunately why my already implemented but not written down in XEP form discovery for QUIC doesn't use DNS but instead an https request like host-meta.json :'(
So you reinvented a dot well-known?
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No, it would be included under .well-known, like the existing host-meta
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moparisthebest
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Yep, actually I just crammed more stuff in the existing host-meta.json
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