XMPP Service Operators - 2023-02-26

jc: A lot of folk here have a big problem with cryptocurrency. So the arbitrary call is an abstraction. ✏

jc: A lot of folk here rightly have a big problem with cryptocurrency. So the arbitrary call is an abstraction. ✏

speak for yourself

It's an inaccurate and therefore useless abstraction. No one would know what I'm talking about. Also what I suggested was perfectly on topic and relevant. You and msavoritias are actually taking us off topic by talking about ponzis and feelings.

Also, I never mentioned "crypto" or "blockchain", I specifically spoke about Bitcoin and lightning as a payment mechanism for people sighing up for servers. Bitcoin is legal tender in some places and is not a ponzi. msavoritias is showing their ignorance of both Bitcoin and ponzis. ✏

I'm specifically trying to not feed the troll by explaining away their misconceptions, because doing so would really be going off topic.

Appreciated 🙂

CAPTCHAs also have various problems, yet people freely suggest (and use) those

Does prosody have a captcha plugin?

jc: > Lightning payment required for registration Looks like I won't be joining this network then, only crypto bros allowed, no idea what all that mean or how to do that, btcpay stuff etc Hey Whatsapp is free, no learning needed, encrypted too, must be good right?

/jk

I don't see any harm, if one server chooses to implement something like that? It's not like were all required to do it

jc: Or we could stop talking about cryptocurrencies. In this case climate destroying ones.

Maybe this is a jdev discussion anyways

Licaon_Kter, yeah!

XMPP is old an deprecated, whatsapp is MODERN

time to shut down operations.

XML?

more like not fit for mobile.

Licaon_Kter: the network is federated, so if one server asks payment that doesn't affect any user from any other server. But you know that

jc: no, it does not work like this, scroll above, see M@randa talking about servers *not* implementing "something" You're a fedi cat eared furry fren, right? How's the peer pressure for admins to "block that instance because it doesn't block that *other* instance" ?

Inwould like it if we could be more professional then some random fediverse admins.

Applying that to the general tone here and to blocking servers etc

> Menel wrote: > Inwould like it if we could be more professional then some random fediverse admins. Isn't that just what we are though, just with different software?

> Licaon_Kter wrote: > jc: no, it does not work like this, scroll above, see M@randa talking about servers *not* implementing "something" > You're a fedi cat eared furry fren, right? How's the peer pressure for admins to "block that instance because it doesn't block that *other* instance" ? it is relatively heavy

> Inwould like it if we could be more professional then some random fediverse admins. What does "proffesional" mean here? Not blocking xmpp instances that make your own instance unsafe? No thank you then.

How do other instances make your own instance unsafe?

Martin, on activitypub the opportunities for harm are much wider because it's a public social network

if you have authenticated fetch required, and you block instances that have harmed other instances in the past, you can raise the difficulty of their users coming to harm you

msavoritias: I do agree that it's about the admins Eg. Chatterboxtown, not sure they're here or if I can easily find their xmpp address to report in the future, did they react? If so then it's ok. I did report to magicmightybroccoli too and they were responsive Also in the past to jabber.de and others

Think creep,im had several reports that went nowhere hence the jabberspam listing, etc

And reaction is one, forcing them to use bitcoin or harvest emails is...way...way...another thing

in that sense, the first instance whose users are victimized by another's users, with that other not reacting appopriately, is a canary in the mineshaft, fainting from the damps and getting revived by their keeper-miner and thus warning said miner to rally the men to come up to the surface

Martin: because they can send unsolicited messages to the people using my server. and join group chats on my server if they exist and send messages that make people feel unsafe.

> Think creep,im had several reports that went nowhere hence the jabberspam listing, etc They would not be on the list if they had acted to emails or have been reachable via xmpp. :) Blocking spammy servers where the admin is not reachable is a reasonable thing. Nowadays the admin is reachable here and they could have requested a removal from the list but afaik they never did.

Yeah if the admin is responsive of course there is no reason to block.

Martin: I've been here, yes, creep said "spam is hard, if you wanna block go ahead" :)

AFAIR they only appeared here _after_ I created the PR as I was not reaching them (emails ignored, xmpp contact failed as they spammed me with captchas so I had to block them to stop captcha spam ^^).

Not sure if the captcha spam problem in ejabberd got fixed in the meantime.

Still open https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/2644 :(

Martin: they were here usually, then they were not when the spammers were :))

Bad timing then…

> And reaction is one, forcing them to use bitcoin or harvest emails is...way...way...another thing Nobody's forcing anybody to do anything. A server operator requesting payment is a voluntary thing.

What's going on here

> Nobody's forcing anybody to do anything. A server operator requesting payment is a voluntary thing. Im all for putting restrictions. But lets not pretend payment is voluntary. Its either pay or leave. Thats not voluntary by any stretch of the word

I mean, being free to leave means you're not forced to accept

Yeah. But the payment itself is a requirment. Its not voluntary. In the same way either you accept the rules of the chat or you leave.

Accepting the rules is required.

?? It is voluntary since no-one is forcing you to sign up with such a server. You can choose a different one or host your own

jc: > Nobody's forcing anybody to do anything. A server operator requesting payment is a voluntary thing. Voluntary or we'll s2s block you because there was a spammer on your server? Yeah...that's voluntary alright

Notice that I was speaking about the admin, about the server itself being forced to implement this. Not the users

jc: its not. but i dont have the energy to start explaing to you why forcing people to pay or get kicked from the server is not voluntary. I mean its self describing.

jc: The users will just go elsewhere... not on xmpp... then you'll have a clean network, empty, but clean.

Facing a potential block because you host spammers is already the case. Some servers asking payment doesn't change that.

True

msavoritias: I never spoke about kicking off existing users

To the extent that payments incentivize server operators to continue hosting, they might event help prevent servers from being shut down and kicking off users. ✏

To the extent that payments incentivize server operators to continue hosting, they might even help prevent servers from being shut down and kicking off users. ✏

PSA: Gandi.net has been acquired by Total Webhosting Solutions B.V.: https://your.online/press-release/

Yes

Let's figure out how to monetize XMPP

whatsapp? :)

hehe

I want us to all be part of a cabal of millionaires

Controlling the network

While perhaps said in jest, anyone interested in how/why XMPP can/should be used for cross-domain interoperation based on monetization, can find more information on https://cybercity.online/ and https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9968404.

no.

mdr

Peter Waher, I wonder if you have any "realized example projects" to contribute to https://xmpp.org/uses/internet-of-things/

jonas’: hmm I've used gandi for years, should I know who TWS is or have cause for concern?

moparisthebest, I do not know who TWS is, but the merger statement tickles my spidy senses. In addition, some people online claim that TWS has a history of acquiring and breaking things.

moparisthebest, https://zombofant.net/@h3artbl33d@exquisite.social/109927449312805384 ← "some people online"

Yea I tend to agree re: that statement, damn

So... Anyone know a good registrar with good support for me hosting DNS for my own domains with DNSSEC? Last time I looked had to have been a decade ago and the situation was rather dire

I'm gonna use inwx.

Am using inwx for some years and had no issues so far.

Reading some faq entries it looks like they support everything I need, I appreciate the recommendations

ugh inwx charges for whois privacy :'(

I've heard good things about Porkbun. Whois privacy is free there

haha I literally just found them from another site and was browsing, will report back

moparisthebest, i'm jusing joker.com which is based in germany. They support DNS with dynamic DNS records, though they do charge a modest fee for whois privacy ✏

My households main problem with them is my US credit card company thinks they're suspicious and doesn't like to process the charges.

happy to report I transferred one of my domains from gandi to porkbun and it took a couple hours and transferred over *with* all glue records, ns records, and dnssec records already in place, so I didn't have to do anything and no service interruption at all :D

moparisthebest, how did you manage that? large ttls?

also why did you switch away from gandi?

nuegia.net, I host my own DNS so since no nameservers changed, no downtime at all, no large TTLs either

nuegia.net, switched because of what was posted earlier here https://your.online/press-release/ + https://exquisite.social/@h3artbl33d/109927449357481623

Isn't this old news? Has anything bad happened since the aquisition,.... other then the corporate propoganda post sounding something james lee's React World(TM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut-0meZV6rI

that press release was just out today I think, and have you seen the website? https://your.online/ that's reason enough to run screaming :P

no i haven't not yet