XMPP Service Operators - 2023-03-14

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  50. Harper

    has the certificate for conference.trashserver.net expired?

  51. nuegia.net

    you could test it with testssl.sh. it support xmpp starttls

  52. Harper

    indeed it is > Mon, 13 Mar 2023 23:15:49 GMT

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  117. Licaon_Kter

    > has the certificate for conference.trashserver.net expired? _My old enemy, we meet again_

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  121. Trung

    > Connection from trung.fun to conference.trashserver.net failed ! > Cert hash: 09b505c082bba39e68f584ba55e3518221cdafd6 > Error: Error with certificate 0: certificate has expired.

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  392. Licaon_Kter

    It's back already

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  413. j.r (jugendhacker.de)

    Looks like the admin forgot, but fixed it directly after waking up: https://metalhead.club/@thomas/110020016870184893 (sorry for strudel)

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  574. bkil

    If only there existed a service that kept verifying acme-based volunteer ran free community services for their expiry once every and warned 30 days in advance! We run into this in many other communities regularly.

  575. bkil

    If only there existed a service that kept verifying acme-based volunteer ran free community services for their expiry weekly and warned 30 days in advance! We run into this in many other communities regularly.

  576. MattJ

    There is: https://observe.jabber.network/

  577. MattJ

    It monitors connectivity as well as certificate expiry warnings

  578. TheCoffeMaker

    MattJ, seems to be down ... is it?

  579. MattJ

    It is not

  580. bkil

    And does it contact the owners?

  581. MattJ


  582. bkil

    Hm. So we need a down detector for the down detector then!

  583. TheCoffeMaker

    > It is not I was able to reach it on the 3rd try ... weird

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  585. MattJ

    Works fine for me on both IPv4 and v6

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  590. bkil

    By the way, only warning _after_ the certificate is expired is way too late. If you have an ACME setup that is good for 90 days, you usually renew after every 60 days. If it is not renewed xy day 61, the cron job is already failing and there is no use in waiting until day 91. They also send an email at that time and if you don't act within a few days, you probably either don't have an email registered or it is going to spam.

  591. bkil

    By the way, only warning _after_ the certificate is expired is way too late. If you have an ACME setup that is good for 90 days, you usually renew after every 60 days. If it is not renewed by day 61, the cron job is already failing and there is no use in waiting until day 91. They also send an email at that time and if you don't act within a few days, you probably either don't have an email registered or it is going to spam.

  592. MattJ

    I agree, that's why it warns in advance

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  594. MattJ

    For Prosody admins, there is also https://modules.prosody.im/mod_checkcerts

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  599. Licaon_Kter

    Had a cron cert update fail last week, randomly/luckily seen it. _It was DNS_

  600. moparisthebest


  601. bkil

    > <MattJ> I agree, that's why it warns in advance That's why _what_ warns in advance?

  602. MattJ


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  604. Harper

    Don't y'all already get emails from LE?

  605. bkil

    9.42% of operators don't.

  606. bkil

    The problem with `observe` is that not all communities are running XMPP servers on their domain.

  607. moparisthebest

    > The problem with observe is that not all communities are running XMPP servers on their domain. That's ok, easy to fix

  608. bkil

    As they haven't published the source code, I can't tell when they are actually sending an alert relating to certificates.

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  618. Menel

    MattJ: > For Prosody admins, there is also https://modules.prosody.im/mod_checkcerts I think that's doesn't work, last I tried.. I will try again... It also says incompatible with prosody .10 But then again. Let's encrypt also sends warning emails if one doesn't disable that.. So one _can_ be warned anyway. It is included...

  619. MattJ

    Yeah, I guess for me it's useful because I'm not always the contact of the LE account (e.g. for jabber.org)

  620. bkil

    Not everyone uses ACME. Not everyone uses Let's Encrypt for ACME. Not everyone has that email address enabled. Some email may go to spam or the specified mailbox only monitored manually instead of being forwarded to the pager/phone of a person. Some admins think that the warning is only intermittent if it was sent a single time and think it was resolved by cron on the node. Some star the incoming warning to deal with it later when they have time but forget about it due to email fatigue.

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  623. bkil

    Some mistype their email address on the registration form (I don't think it is verified during the process).

  624. Menel

    bkil: nearly 100% if the expired certs just do that actually.. So you're technically correct.. But in reality it doesn't matter much.

  625. Menel

    If you setup something incorrectly it doesn't work yes... Also true for other checker software

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  627. bkil

    By the way, my suggestion was a monitoring too to help monitoring the community services hosted by _others_, not your own. I.e., most volunteer operators aren't that experienced in monitoring & alerting as I would like them to be.

  628. bkil

    By the way, my suggestion was a monitoring tool to help monitoring the community services hosted by _others_, not your own. I.e., most volunteer operators aren't that experienced in monitoring & alerting as I would like them to be.

  629. MattJ

    bkil, I'm no longer sure what point you're trying to make. The discussion started about expired XMPP server certificates, we're in the XMPP operators chat. It seems you're talking about some generic non-XMPP certificate checker? Such things exist too.

  630. Menel

    Like https://github.com/louislam/uptime-kuma

  631. bkil

    TL;DR, Could you please disclose how many days in advance observe.jabber.network will "alert" before a certificate expires?

  632. MattJ

    bkil, I don't know, I would strongly suspect it's a configuration parameter

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  634. moparisthebest

    > As they haven't published the source code, I can't tell when they are actually sending an alert relating to certificates. Did you not even read the page? Lol (all source is published right there)

  635. bkil

    Way ahead of you. I have already read the source code of the _webpage_ before asking. But it's neither the webpage of the monitoring tool, nor its configuration, nor it's devops deployment recipe if I would like to reproduce it.

  636. bkil

    Way ahead of you. I have already read the source code of the _webpage_ before asking. But it's neither the source of the monitoring tool, nor its configuration, nor it's devops deployment recipe if I would like to reproduce it.

  637. bkil

    Is this bridge forwarding remote message corrections (edits) towards XMPP?

  638. MattJ

    Looks like if, if you're using the bridge

  639. MattJ

    Looks like it, if you're using the bridge

  640. bkil

    Excellent! The XEP provides for only editing my last message, right?

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  642. MattJ


  643. Menel

    Many clients will forbit other edits and just don't show them

  644. bkil

    You mean only the original message will appear to them or it will be duplicated?

  645. Menel

    Both will be shown

  646. Menel

    It is a client feature clients can deside what they do

  647. MattJ

    The protocol isn't technically limited to the last message, but it says that implementations should only allow editing the last message. Not all implementations agree with that, and there is talk about removing this restriction from the XEP's text.

  648. moparisthebest

    bkil: then I'm afraid you didn't read it: > Free as in Freedom: All software components used, including this web frontend, are free and libre software. (The configuration management is currently not, and will most likely never be; this is because it is too tightly integrated in the entire other stack of services.) It also has links to everything

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  669. Licaon_Kter

    > _It's always DNS_ The error I've got was: _"DNS problem: SERVFAIL looking up CAA"_ Don't recall what I did, restarted local resolver I guess.

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  694. opal

    i see duplicate messages, where are you all even bridging from

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  703. MattJ

    Most people aren't bridging from anywhere

  704. opal

    oh theyre individually-run bridges i see

  705. MattJ

    I think a couple of people are from Matrix

  706. opal

    i thought this chat was bridged thats all

  707. Maranda

    > <opal> i see duplicate messages, where are you all even bridging from Probably the duplicates you see are from LMC

  708. diane

    LMC last message correction?

  709. Maranda

    If joining from XMPP

  710. opal

    im guessing mam history doesnt preserve the edit flag for those messages?

  711. Maranda

    > <diane> LMC last message correction? ✅

  712. diane

    It seems to works for me, but I'm using dino. My other guess for repeated messages might be weirdness with stream resumption.

  713. Maranda

    MAM should opal but for example Conversation usually tramples when fetching corrected messages from history

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  715. Maranda

    And shows duplicates

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  717. opal

    maybe dino is doing that here too

  718. opal

    oh i havent updated dino in a bit either maybe i should rebuild

    👍️ 1
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  720. diane

    0.4 has got cool new stuff.

  721. opal

    im on... 0.3.0~git18.20220517.f25bfb00 yeah a bit old

  722. diane

    Now we have fancy emoji reactions

  723. frog has left

  724. Licaon_Kter

    opal: no MUC MAM in 0.3 anyway, but in 0.4

  725. opal


  726. opal

    explains it then

  727. diane

    One thing I'm curious about is one of Dino's recent screenshots in gnome-software seem to show a 3 person video call. Does that actually work?

  728. Licaon_Kter

    Maranda: who protects the Edit? MAM or LMC? Eg. user leaves, bad user comes w/ same nick and tries to correct

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  730. Licaon_Kter

    diane: between Dino users, up to 4-5 etc, should be ok, afaik

  731. Licaon_Kter

    diane: for this and many more click xmpp:chat@dino.im?join

  732. diane

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0308.html says you're not supposed to allow JIDs to edit messages from before entering the room

  733. opal

    so, server needs to be trusted basically

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  736. Maranda

    > <Licaon_Kter> Maranda: who protects the Edit? MAM or LMC? Eg. user leaves, bad user comes w/ same nick and tries to correct Usually both client/server should do some sanity check.

  737. opal

    (fair assumption to have regardless of edits)

  738. Maranda remembers some recent related Gajim bug...

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  741. opal

    well i can say, im glad dino tagged a release, so i'll get that built soon

  742. opal

    can move back off master

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  745. bkil

    I'm unsure why bifrost shows almost a thousand people over the XMPP MUC. I can't quite see that many active around here.

  746. opal

    i see ~60 but keep in mind most people lurk

  747. Maranda

    bkil: because sync'ing XMPP ephemeral membership state is disruptive to the room state in Matrix ™️

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  750. bkil

    Right. We should open a PR to bifrost that it should GC members after being offline for more than a week and send in their leave events in bulk each night (or even once a week).

  751. opal

    there's precedent in how irc (namely libera) handles that with the matrix bridge so probably copying that as closely as possible would lead to least surprise for everyone

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  753. bkil

    Nobody bothered to implement this in the IRC bridge either, hence the constant conflicts with all major IRC networks.

  754. opal

    i think they wait like a month before DCing matrix clients

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  758. opal

    idk how it works the other way around ive seen dead irc nicks all the time so

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  761. opal

    >Now we have fancy emoji reactions its ... just an emote menu lol, not quite reactions

  762. bkil

    On the contrary, matrix-org got into an agreement with many big IRC networks that it will **kick** members out of the room after 30 days if they don't say anything (regardless whether their client updated their read receipt, presence, place reactji and even sent in other messages to the same network in other channels). This is very disruptive and had resulted in a loss of huge communities. It took me almost a year to reboot the Friendica community after I noticed this

  763. bkil

    I proposed a much better algorithm compared to this.

  764. opal

    i already use ibus for emoji

  765. opal

    bkil, damn that sucks

  766. opal

    yeah its coming back to me i remember people getting confused over stuff

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  770. bkil

    It ain't helping that it did include heuristics to detect online presence, but the matrix.org had to disable presence due to performance reasons within the Python implementation.

  771. opal

    e_e they still sticking with python and theyre still probably open to new registrations LOL they arent exactly calculated

  772. Maranda

    bkil: tbh that's already on the radar but there isn't exactly a "flawless" solution. So not sync'ing parts/technical parts for now is the best choice (otherwise kick/bans are immediatly sync'ed)

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  776. opal

    oh wow dino 0.4.1 completely ignores my gtk theme cool and now i see the reaction popup nvm its different from the emote menu

  777. bkil

    Got any screenshot to show off for us outsiders?

  778. bkil

    Got any screenshots to show off for us outsiders?

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  781. diane

    Yeah I noticed I also noticed the theming changed with the jump to 0.4, and i think it's fair to call it a reaction because it replies to a post.

  782. opal

    bkil, no because i cant even resize the damned chats on the left to hide them now

  783. opal

    lmfao gtk4

  784. opal

    yeah diane youre right they are reactions if replies are also a thing now

  785. diane


  786. diane

    a bit of the menu

    🥇️ 1
  787. diane

    There's more to the emoji menu but it's a popup that extends outside the dino window and I didn't feel like screenshotting the rest of my desktop

  788. diane

    For my messages, if I hover over them there's 3 buttons, a pencil for editing, a left turn arrow for replying, and a face with a plus for emoji reaction

  789. opal

    ok yeah the reactions work like any other platform

  790. opal


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  793. diane

    singpolyma added stickers to cheogram (more featureful fork of conversations), and that looks like it'd be fun for kid & family members

  794. diane

    Though I'm still waiting for it to show up in fdroid

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  798. Licaon_Kter

    > Right. We should open a PR to bifrost that it should Hey Maranda how many of your PRs have been merged? :))

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  802. bkil

    Which XEP does reactji use? It doesn't seem to be bridged by bifrost.

  803. Licaon_Kter

    bkil: > On the contrary, matrix-org got into an agreement with many big IRC networks that it OFTC ops were not singing the same song, kinda tired and annoyed by having 3k users that are... not real

  804. Licaon_Kter

    opal, diane: go to Dino room, and I'll share the fix :)

  805. Harper

    how else are we supposed to get to the top of s.j.n?

  806. Licaon_Kter

    Good one...

  807. opal

    if you mean fix for the theme i'm already deep into the gtk4 config stuff so ill figure it out soon enough, just gnome devs keep changing everything for no good reason

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  852. Maranda

    > <Licaon_Kter> > Right. We should open a PR to bifrost that it should > Hey Maranda how many of your PRs have been merged? :)) None, and none will

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  1037. nuegia.net

    > if you mean fix for the theme i'm already deep into the gtk4 config stuff so ill figure it out soon enough, just gnome devs keep changing everything for no good reason opal, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n3pFFPSlW4

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  1049. nuegia.net

    hosting XMPP on your own hardware offers tremendous latency improvements over virtual private servers

  1050. gooya has left

  1051. nuegia.net

    even when your hardware is set to use latency costing power saving like deep c-states and a lower context switching resolution, it's way more latenct then any cloud provider i've been on