XMPP Service Operators - 2023-06-10

I am still curious about the question. What is your hope to XMPP's future? Or what do you advertise it for? A. I just want to use (and share), I do not care much. B. I hope it keep minority so I have a peaceful chat environment without seeing too many newbies or politics. C. I hope it can be used by almost everyone on the earth.

☭Mike Yellow: not sure all do grand plans, the ~peer pressure~network effect can achive a lot (look at the current leaders)

So use it with your frens, family, comrades in arms, co-revolutionaries, etc... and it will spread by itself.

If you ask Telegram users or Discord ones "why?" you'll hear the same story on and on.

> I am still curious about the question. What is your hope to XMPP's future? Or what do you advertise it for? > A. I just want to use (and share), I do not care much. > B. I hope it keep minority so I have a peaceful chat environment without seeing too many newbies or politics. > C. I hope it can be used by almost everyone on the earth. the right question imo is what do you want to achieve for your use case and how you can advocate and develop for that ↺

_"because X was using it"_ Not _"I looked at the messengers and I stopped at the letter T"_

i have some ideas of how i want moderation/community governance to look like at some point and I am slowly working towards something like that.

also for talk about the future of xmpp as a protocol and platform we have this room -> future@joinjabber.org

in case you are interested to put some of these ideas there and talk with other people on where xmpp is headed

or we want it to go

Thank you.

is it possible to register a XMPP account anonymously like no credentials needed, one key pair is created and used for authentication? ✏

sdjlbmrt: you are anonymous by default, if you choose

> sdjlbmrt: you are anonymous by default, if you choose how?

Everyone must have an stable and accurate address to receive messages, whatever what protocol you use, or it will be very complex and hard to use.

The address is just like virtual ID, do not try to hide it.

> is it possible to register a XMPP account anonymously like no credentials needed, > one key pair is created and used for authentication? not key pairs but look into oauth and indie webauth ↺

not sure what server supports it though

sdjlbmrt: make an account not named as your birth name? Eg. I dunno who `sdjlbmrt@draugr.de` is but maybe I'd guess who `simon.d.jilbemert@conversations.im` is lol

Is trashserver.net down?

https://connect.xmpp.net/?trashserver.net says it is up

https://social.tchncs.de/@trashserver/110519555527991714

How often do you all restart?

> https://social.tchncs.de/@trashserver/110519555527991714 Ist seems back now

> How often do you all restart? When mom unplugs the RPi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Interesting xmpp is compatible with websocket, well nostr is a websocket, so they should work with each other, in theory anyway 😀

xsr: no

Websocket is a way to connect, whatever listens there needs to speak the right protocol, be it xmpp or json over rest api or whatever.

The whole nostr network is was relays, then maybe a bridge should work

Of course There's one for ActivityPub, see Libervia

Licaon_Kter: yes I have seen that, there is one for nostr and activity pub

Similarly, nostr itself is only a transport mechanism for arbitrary data - there are different things built on top of it. The social stuff and the chat stuff on top of nostr are not necessarily compatible with each other.

Matt should look into it, it will give xmpp a new surge of use

MattJ: agreed, but I would love the keys aspect in xmpp

I'm not sure it's true that a nostr bridge would magically bring a surge of people to XMPP

It gives xmpp that huge advantage of hitting metadata

Hiding

If people like nostr they will probably use nostr directly

Well they are looking for a secure chat app and they agree toying around with simplex.chat

I actually suggested xmpp because it already has omemo

simplex is a very similar design to nostr, but probably a bit more suited to chat apps

> simplex is a very similar design to nostr, but probably a bit more suited to chat apps It is indeed

But the key ideas is awesome, no password or usernames etc

For some use cases, yeah

Is so easy to use

The the private key is client side always

Yes, which means if you lose your phone or it breaks, you lose your contacts and data :)

> <Licaon_Kter> > How often do you all restart? > When mom unplugs the RPi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Once Upon a Time it was when mom turned on the Owen, the Washing Machine and the Dishwasher... 🎃

But then a UPS came to the rescue

> Yes, which means if you lose your phone or it breaks, you lose your contacts and data :) This isn't much of a problem, people are historically very good at backups ;) ↺

But why not give xmpp users the choice of registration?

xsr: have you heard of nitter.net?

Trung: yes I have

tell me how nitter is different to nostr

With keys servers have one less overhead of registrations etc

This is all only very lightly related to XMPP server operations - maybe it could move to xmpp:future@joinjabber.org?join as suggested earlier

Trung: is very similar, but the point in making is the key concept would be a great addition to the xmpp protocol

> This is all only very lightly related to XMPP server operations - maybe it could move to xmpp:future@joinjabber.org?join as suggested earlier I joined by using can't find the room in conversations

last question: so when i register on nostr that infomation is shared across every other “relays” right?

Press on the link in conversations xsr

> last question: so when i register on nostr that infomation is shared across every other “relays” right? Only if you allow it, it all depends on which relays your connected to, but yes the one key pair works across all anything using the nostr protocol

Trung: come on over to the other room posted above

Sound like matrix with a boolean somewhere. Thank you but no thank you. Now please stay on topic with XMPP here. Anything else we are NOT interrsted.

No problem I didn't this is a strictly xmpp only chat

xsr: pls join Offtopic for...others

Can 'penjspoop@conversations.im' be added to the xmppbl.org list?

Name says enough and he has a inappropriate pfp

+1

gooya: which room?

nixnet community muc

and xmpp:privacy-and-security@muc.loqi.im?join

Somebody did :)

Great thanks _somebody_ :)

somebody is such a nice person

xsr: nostr is at least a different architecture instead of a poor copy of XMPP (like matrix), if things ever stabilize over there a bridge would be nice and easy to do

> I am still curious about the question. What is your hope to XMPP's future? Or what do you advertise it for? > A. I just want to use (and share), I do not care much. > B. I hope it keep minority so I have a peaceful chat environment without seeing too many newbies or politics. > C. I hope it can be used by almost everyone on the earth. ☭Mike Yellow: that's the nice part about it, it'll be functional to talk to my family/friends forever, whether the whole world ends up using it really doesn't affect me (though of course it'd be nice...) ↺

moparisthebest, I appreciate you're probably working your way through the chat history, but here's a spoiler: we moved the nostr and "XMPP goals" topics to other channels :)

oops sorry :)

I've been thinking about this a few times already but wouldn't it be a nice idea to create an muc for newcomers to xmpp? Where new users can ask questions about xmpp, clients, servers etc without disturbing other muc as what is happening now. If there would be enough volunteets to help guide new users to the correct sources/info, this could be a good idea. Other muc's that have specific topics such as 'conversations', 'movim', 'xmpp service operator' can just point the new user to that muc instead. What do you think?

Great idea. So great, it's already been done: https://joinjabber.org/docs/ :)

xmpp:support@joinjabber.org?join

MattJ: Ah I never knew it already existed. That's great from now on I'll just point them to that :)

gooya: now we need a MUC to guide people to the right MUC right?

😂😂

Maybe the simplest current answer would be for https://xmpp.org/community/ to link to the join jabber project page as a community resource?

Yeah, that was something we were planning to do back before FOSDEM...

Oh right, it was indeed added here: https://xmpp.org/community/chat/

Skimming the /chat page... I don't see the joinabber room? oh there it is it's highlighted in the heading...