XMPP Service Operators - 2024-01-29

i host a dendrite instance and use matrix a lot more than xmpp

I feel sorry for you...

having to use Matrix

lol why i perfer it over xmpp

well then you are simply wrong 🙃

ミ⁠●⁠﹏⁠☉⁠ミ

I do really wish we did this in XMPP land. Not the way it's done in Matrix, which is just wasteful, but if we queried our own servers for history on other servers, then they passed through those requests, it would allow eg. caching of really popular rooms, media, etc. which would be nice.

Many public servers would probably just continue to pass stuff through and not do any caching, but it would give you the option.

Sam: nothing actually stops servers from doing that now though? ✏

Fair point, I guess just because a stanza is addressed somewhere else doesn't mean they couldn't do that. Maybe I'll experiment with an implementation.

imo theres no point

its their server thus they control the data

if their server goes down boo hoo its down

we shouldn't spread a servers data across half the internet, do you want privacy or not?

Those aren't really related

I do not like the caching idea, one because it's bad action for sake of privacy, two it's unlike a mature protocol to hoard data for frivilous reasons, and three because that's wasteful anyways, whichever way, and some people don't even like having MAM enabled for a good reasons, as well it wouldn't be so minimal then and possibly lead people into worse ideas along the same thread, thus corrupt the userbase of xmpp to thinking of wrong things as the norm

i would H A T E my chats cached, and once seen that, remove MAM, make members only

the data occuring where it occurs is owner of wher eit occurs, not consented cached anywhere else

I have bad news for you, your chats are cached

whodunnit

On all clients of everyone joined to them

your client? NSA?

oh, that's fine, they're part of the chat, that's consented

Adding a server to reduce load on your server isn't actually affecting anything

lol sounds redundant

Yea this would only be servers that connected clients connect through

sounds like a mitm

can u elaborate?

no, and i don't blame u

i better leave now, bye

actually sounds like s2s, what is this sorcery

chunk: right now to get history of this MUC your client sends a MAM query that your server sees and passes along, and then your server passes the data back to you, your server *could* cache it and when your other client sends the same query, serve it from local data, that's all

right

i didn't think of that

but it shouldn't

and furthermore offer that data outside the realm of the most obvious consenting

which would be muc and occupants only

transient nodes, do transient tasks only

i would call this unethical actually

cuz yea there's the technical realm, and the people's realm, which differ slightly, and what is that cached data useful for to the transient nodes if not for transient functions only? is unethical, imo

because it's not the people's realm, i hope im making sense, its possible, likely even, i am not

also, what if e2ee was introduced

Just stumbled over https://github.com/acmesh-official/acme.sh/issues/4659 Acme.sh users before mid 2023 = rce https://www.cve.org/CVERecord?id=CVE-2023-38198 Do update your clients, and preferably use the non root method. moparisthebest, you once said never update this script, so I'm pinging you directly. 🙂 It not bad *as long as you can trust your choosen CA* but I think it's bad enough.

Menel: that was mentioned here iirc

I didn't find it in my history so I mentioned it now. If it was already mentioned, then sorry for everyone reading it twice z for the rest : this is the reminder

If you're upgrading, consider switching to dehydrated (formerly letsencrypt.sh) which doesn't have weird partnerships with CAs

Menel: june 09 by mopar

Am I the only one just using certbot?

People seem to think certbot is the alternative to acme.sh, or that acme.sh is the only simple client, but there are quite a few

Martin, no, I use certbot on quite a few servers running Debian that I want to "just work", because if you install the right packages and use one of the supported web servers, it does

> If you're upgrading, consider switching to dehydrated (formerly letsencrypt.sh) which doesn't have weird partnerships with CAs I was considering writing a client ↺

acme protocol isnt _too_ big

me do something useful would be a miracle though...

> Am I the only one just using certbot? no

I prefer dehydrated, but only acme.sh comes with an automated dns challenge hook for my dns service. Since I'm no coder I can't simply adapt that script for dehydrated. It might be not too hard.

Polarian: better contribute to an existing one? As you see there are enough that are not super robust or featurefull 🙂

> Polarian: better contribute to an existing one? As you see there are enough that are not super robust or featurefull 🙂 Its mainly because I want to understand it more... not because I want another production ready client ↺

>> Am I the only one just using certbot? > no +1

me too

OK, seems the users of the scripts just talk more about it and the silent majority sticks with certbot. 😂

Menel: yes I'd heard about it thanks, I used dehydrated when it was letsencrypt.sh and switched to acme.sh for reasons long since forgotten, probably DNS challenge related if I had to guess

i had an issue for a while using certbot and it becoming a failed service til I realized it needs to delete unused domains (broken DNS) and since then i'm still a fan.

> Sam: > 2024-01-28 06:03 (CST) > I do really wish we did this in XMPP land. Not the way it's done in Matrix, which is just wasteful, but if we queried our own servers for history on other servers, then they passed through those requests, it would allow eg. caching of really popular rooms, media, etc. which would be nice. I don't want to be catching for other servers. Usually services that have a million caches are fundamentally screwed up *cough WordPress cough modern website*

I'd rather see development in a revised version of stanza compression that just doesn't compress authentication stanzas but compresses everything else.