XMPP Service Operators - 2024-02-14

  1. agris

    This person attempted to retract a previous message, but it's unsupported by your client.

  2. mao

    Is xmpp network attack??

  3. mao

    Many servers reboot problems ,Disroot , conversation.im ,sopran.ica ,...

  4. moparisthebest

    No, not seeing any problems from here

  5. kapad

    from here, either

  6. grin

    No issues here

  7. Wirlaburla

    Peachy here.

  8. chunk

    xmpp is seems unstable, as i mentioned a couple days go

  9. Wirlaburla

    Working perfectly fine for me.

  10. chunk

    for an unknown (and highly suspicious) reason my one vhost c2s connection suddenly stopped accepting clients

  11. chunk

    and literally nothing changed on disk that was done by me

  12. Wirlaburla

    Sucks to suck.

  13. chunk

    Lord knows why, i didn't stick around to to do forensic

  14. chunk

    Wirlaburla, ha ha too funny

  15. Wirlaburla

    This your own server?

  16. chunk


  17. Wirlaburla

    And you didn't bother seeing why?

  18. chunk

    i had a slew of other issues, i went into panic mode basically

  19. chunk

    none of my stuff is critical or serves others so no loss to anyone in the community

  20. Wirlaburla

    "Slew of other issues"?

  21. Wirlaburla

    I just can't see anyone else to blame but yourself if you face an issue, don't investigate it, and don't bother filing bug reports. Shit doesn't get stable by fermenting.

  22. chunk

    true, it is what it was, and in the past

  23. Wirlaburla

    Then I hardly see the reason for complaining.

  24. chunk

    im just chatting

  25. Wirlaburla


  26. chunk

    tbh might put it back up tonight

  27. Wirlaburla

    What server do you use?

  28. chunk

    I don't have one right meow

  29. chunk

    Wirlaburla: which do u use?

  30. grin

    chunk, which one did you use before? :P

  31. chunk

    I wonder what hardware people that have 1000+ c2s connections use

  32. grin

    i just use ejabberd

  33. chunk

    If I had an old server and a /64 subnet I could probably load test a VPS out of curiosity

  34. chunk

    prosody most usually. I got the hang of prosody quite well after a few years. For a while last winter I tried ejabberd for the benefits it had in hosting movim and I did like the features it provides as well as the granularity in configuration. I wanted to try and use mrBot (my slixmpp bot) with the http api for ejabberd, but, the last night I last used ejabberd was very long mess of redoing and seriously outrageous errors. i do not like erlang at all. Prosody cuts it for my general tasks but ejabberd for the complex and custom stuff, when I really wanna screw with xmpp ^^

  35. Holger

    Whatever floats your boat, but _my_ executive summary would've been that Prosody clearly wins when it comes to easily/quickly adding custom code / PoCs (i.e. complex and custom stuff, screwing with XMPP). Due to (1) Lua being simple and (2) the module API being straightforward and (3) Prosody's general design (fewer abstraction layers compared to ejabberd). Wheres ejabberd probably wins when it comes to scalability/introspection, as long as you're fine with standard functionality.

  36. grin

    chunk, i have a few setup scripts for ejabberd that work for me, but then again i don't need any custom extensions really. if i did, i've written erlang before so it's not too big a deal for me personally

  37. Polarian

    chunk, XMPP servers are pretty lightweight, you do not need some enterprise grade server for it, _unlike matrix_

  38. grin

    but i will agree that prosody is probably the easiest choice for people who are just starting out

  39. Polarian

    Holger, you are an Openfire developer, you don't recommend your own project?

  40. Polarian


  41. Holger

    grin, Snikket even more so, maybe πŸ™‚ I do think ejabberd is fine for starting out these days as well. `apt install ejabberd` + specifying your XMPP domain in the config mostly does the trick on Debian, for example. Includes a TURN server and whatnot.

  42. chunk

    Holger: yes for absolute customizing prosody wins all that, what I meant by custom with ejabberd I suppose I was narrowly thinking about how elaborate the pubsub settings can get as well as the ACL extensibility. the configuration file for ejabberd seems to be pleasantly open with room to advance into quite extensive setups. Prosody though has a nice base set of Lua XMPP related methods/libriaries that make making new modules quite fun. i have yet to find some good ideas for that. Lua is on my short list to learn

  43. Holger

    Polarian, ejabberd dev you mean? Well I have no (or just a super-indirect) economic interest in anyone preferring ejabberd over the competition, which gives me the freedom to express pros and cons as I perceive them rather than having to do stupid marketing πŸ™‚ "Building custom ejabberd extensions is more straightforward than with Prosody" would be obvious nonsense.

  44. chunk

    I want to figure out how to use `http.tcp.packets.cc` running apache2 to host the upload module for all my xmpp vhosts, that would be neato

  45. Polarian

    > Polarian, ejabberd dev you mean? Well I have no (or just a super-indirect) economic interest in anyone preferring ejabberd over the competition, which gives me the freedom to express pros and cons as I perceive them rather than having to do stupid marketing πŸ™‚ "Building custom ejabberd extensions is more straightforward than with Prosody" would be obvious nonsense. oh I assumed you would be a developer of Openfire seen as you are in their MUC as an owner oops

  46. Polarian


  47. chunk

    me thinks he's a ejabberd dev, don't quote me, but vip nevertheless

  48. ben


  49. chunk

    ben: > Oops my excuse is i am crazy, works everytime

  50. rom1dep

    hi there, what would be your recommendation for an XMPP server/provider where to establish a software development project that has nothing to do with XMPP? In that regard it'd be good to have a way to join the MUC(s) as a spectator (anonymously) from a web browser, via a URL (and onboarding steps from there to become room member). Any idea?

  51. chunk

    rom1dep: are you capable of using Linux? VPS hosting? If not then understandable. I'd say maybe disroot.org, dismail.de, conversations.im, inspirenet.org, trashserver.net, I don't recommend 404.city as in my few years they have some bad apples there (no offence) ... Others could recommend, there's also https://mov.im

  52. rom1dep

    chunk: yeah, I'm not looking for tips to self-host (I've already been doing that at my small scale for the better part of a decade), I'm just looking for names of servers that are used to hosting and dealing with opensource projects and communities. Kind of the OFTC/libera.chat of XMPP that give confidence that you are in "good hands"

  53. grin

    dunno, probably disroot or something ye

  54. rom1dep

    does movim lets one backlog a room without an account?

  55. grin

    though if i were to host an established open source project that has its own domain and servers, i'd probably want to self-host it for the developers of that project and open the rooms up for external users

  56. Licaon_Kter

    Converse might

  57. rom1dep

    grin: new opensource projects' domains are github and discord nowadays :) I'm simply trying to have a compelling option to oppose to "discord"

  58. chunk

    > Converse might converse has anonymous group

  59. grin

    rom1dep, gotcha :). well i'm definitely not the target audience of those things but i get why projects find them appealing. for me, xmpp is the "fancy" thingy with voip support and file sharing while irc is the default :P

  60. grin

    but to stay on-topic with the question, converse and movim looked like something that could be considered an "alternative" to discord i suppose. i haven't tried them, though

  61. rom1dep

    yep, I think movim does some of the "banquet" use-cases right, but I don't know if/how I could use it to effectively "bait" new users and contributors (who know nothing about XMPP) into getting involved. I think Matrix does that quite well: you see the discussion going on, and within few clicks, you can contribute as well

  62. rom1dep

    (just in case the "banquet" reference is new to some: https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2018/05/16/banquets-and-barbecues/ )

  63. Holger

    rom1dep, yeah I think we're still better at 'private chat' use cases than at public/team chat. Converse.js might be as close as you get. But the UX certainly won't blow away Discord & Matrix (that's obviously their #1 use case).

  64. rom1dep

    yeah. I think I like those "jump-in" buttons on https://jabberfr.org/

  65. hook

    Is there a short comparison between Prosody and Metronome? I know the latter is a fork of the former and the Metronome website does provide a list of differences, but I’m confused because Prosody (somewhat understandably) does not list differences to Metronome, yet I constantly hear people suggest Prosody.

  66. Licaon_Kter

    Movim will focus on group calls next

  67. Licaon_Kter

    hook: metronome was a fork in 2009, now it's a different server lol

  68. hook

    (I would also welcome a comparison between Movim and Libervia, but no idea if that’s something for this channel …not sure which one it would be though)

  69. Licaon_Kter

    Think it's faster to set them up and compare :))

    πŸ˜…οΈ 1
  70. thecoffemaker

    rom1dep: I didn't have enough time to test it (I want to also do that for my site) but in theory u can setup an ejabberd instance for anonymous only logins using converse.js as UI, with ACLs to only s2s with a given instance (where your muc will be hosted) and from that fully federated instance add an ACL to set as visitors everyone who joins from the anon instance

  71. thecoffemaker

    but didn't test it yet so maybe I'm wrong

  72. rom1dep

    thecoffemaker: yeah, that's kind of why I was asking if there are FOSS projects-friendly instances out there which would do the heavy lifting for lazy me (also, I don't want my own sysadmin biological limits to be on the critical path)

  73. thecoffemaker

    yeah ... been in lazy land and never came back 🀣

  74. chunk

    rom1dep: y'know, I've hosted both conversejs and movim (which I custoimized the css to much much nice) and used them both extensively. A guy, such as myself, would probably be willing to hear listed what you'd like and adapt something for your use case. Just an idea I had

  75. chunk

    myself I long time wanted to create a landing page for movim becauase when you hit the domain it probably confuses people wondering what to login with how

  76. chunk

    Some day I'd like to do a sort of xmpp pubsub (opposed to fediverse activity pub) ... not so much social network as much as foundry for the pubsub content, like movim, and let any XMPP user have their own customizable miniblog

  77. rom1dep

    chunk: do you happen to know if movim is open/accepting to this idea of a landing page?

  78. chunk

    rom1dep: agplv3 licence or some such, in order to host the code modified one must post the source code and give attribution, so, however about the branding or possible, or insinuated rebranding (should it just happen to appear that way) I think not allowed but i dunno.

  79. chunk

    As far as custom landing page, no problemo, just keep the source open and post it publicly

  80. rom1dep

    I meant it as "would they merge it/perceive it as a benefit for their project"

  81. sam

    I guess

  82. chunk

    Well, I think edhelas enjoyed my efforts ^^

    😊️ 1
  83. f_

    > Is xmpp network attack?? peachy too

  84. MattJ

    rom1dep: https://cheogram.com/freedomware-muc/

  85. rom1dep

    eh, that's great :) Though https://anonymous.cheogram.com/ … could be improved πŸ˜„οΈ

  86. rom1dep

    those cheogram folks are everywhere

  87. Martin

    > hook: metronome was a fork in 2009, now it's a different server lol Isn't something that forked off a fork forever umless there is a fresh start (rewrite)? Or do you only consider things a fork which still follow the upstream and only change name, color and a few things?

  88. moparisthebest

    I don't think that implies it's not "still a fork", just that it forked long ago and diverged significantly

  89. hook

    But what are the practical differences?

  90. hook

    Between Prosody and Metronome (not the ontology or phenomenology of a fork)