XMPP Service Operators - 2024-02-14

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Is xmpp network attack??

Many servers reboot problems ,Disroot , conversation.im ,sopran.ica ,...

No, not seeing any problems from here

from here, either

No issues here

Peachy here.

xmpp is seems unstable, as i mentioned a couple days go

Working perfectly fine for me.

for an unknown (and highly suspicious) reason my one vhost c2s connection suddenly stopped accepting clients

and literally nothing changed on disk that was done by me

Sucks to suck.

Lord knows why, i didn't stick around to to do forensic

Wirlaburla, ha ha too funny

This your own server?

was

And you didn't bother seeing why?

i had a slew of other issues, i went into panic mode basically

none of my stuff is critical or serves others so no loss to anyone in the community

"Slew of other issues"?

I just can't see anyone else to blame but yourself if you face an issue, don't investigate it, and don't bother filing bug reports. Shit doesn't get stable by fermenting.

true, it is what it was, and in the past

Then I hardly see the reason for complaining.

im just chatting

Hmm.

tbh might put it back up tonight

What server do you use?

I don't have one right meow

Wirlaburla: which do u use?

chunk, which one did you use before? :P

I wonder what hardware people that have 1000+ c2s connections use

i just use ejabberd

If I had an old server and a /64 subnet I could probably load test a VPS out of curiosity

prosody most usually. I got the hang of prosody quite well after a few years. For a while last winter I tried ejabberd for the benefits it had in hosting movim and I did like the features it provides as well as the granularity in configuration. I wanted to try and use mrBot (my slixmpp bot) with the http api for ejabberd, but, the last night I last used ejabberd was very long mess of redoing and seriously outrageous errors. i do not like erlang at all. Prosody cuts it for my general tasks but ejabberd for the complex and custom stuff, when I really wanna screw with xmpp ^^

Whatever floats your boat, but _my_ executive summary would've been that Prosody clearly wins when it comes to easily/quickly adding custom code / PoCs (i.e. complex and custom stuff, screwing with XMPP). Due to (1) Lua being simple and (2) the module API being straightforward and (3) Prosody's general design (fewer abstraction layers compared to ejabberd). Wheres ejabberd probably wins when it comes to scalability/introspection, as long as you're fine with standard functionality.

chunk, i have a few setup scripts for ejabberd that work for me, but then again i don't need any custom extensions really. if i did, i've written erlang before so it's not too big a deal for me personally

chunk, XMPP servers are pretty lightweight, you do not need some enterprise grade server for it, _unlike matrix_

but i will agree that prosody is probably the easiest choice for people who are just starting out

Holger, you are an Openfire developer, you don't recommend your own project?

xD

grin, Snikket even more so, maybe 🙂 I do think ejabberd is fine for starting out these days as well. `apt install ejabberd` + specifying your XMPP domain in the config mostly does the trick on Debian, for example. Includes a TURN server and whatnot.

Holger: yes for absolute customizing prosody wins all that, what I meant by custom with ejabberd I suppose I was narrowly thinking about how elaborate the pubsub settings can get as well as the ACL extensibility. the configuration file for ejabberd seems to be pleasantly open with room to advance into quite extensive setups. Prosody though has a nice base set of Lua XMPP related methods/libriaries that make making new modules quite fun. i have yet to find some good ideas for that. Lua is on my short list to learn

Polarian, ejabberd dev you mean? Well I have no (or just a super-indirect) economic interest in anyone preferring ejabberd over the competition, which gives me the freedom to express pros and cons as I perceive them rather than having to do stupid marketing 🙂 "Building custom ejabberd extensions is more straightforward than with Prosody" would be obvious nonsense.

I want to figure out how to use `http.tcp.packets.cc` running apache2 to host the upload module for all my xmpp vhosts, that would be neato

> Polarian, ejabberd dev you mean? Well I have no (or just a super-indirect) economic interest in anyone preferring ejabberd over the competition, which gives me the freedom to express pros and cons as I perceive them rather than having to do stupid marketing 🙂 "Building custom ejabberd extensions is more straightforward than with Prosody" would be obvious nonsense. oh I assumed you would be a developer of Openfire seen as you are in their MUC as an owner oops

:)

me thinks he's a ejabberd dev, don't quote me, but vip nevertheless

Oops

ben: > Oops my excuse is i am crazy, works everytime

hi there, what would be your recommendation for an XMPP server/provider where to establish a software development project that has nothing to do with XMPP? In that regard it'd be good to have a way to join the MUC(s) as a spectator (anonymously) from a web browser, via a URL (and onboarding steps from there to become room member). Any idea?

rom1dep: are you capable of using Linux? VPS hosting? If not then understandable. I'd say maybe disroot.org, dismail.de, conversations.im, inspirenet.org, trashserver.net, I don't recommend 404.city as in my few years they have some bad apples there (no offence) ... Others could recommend, there's also https://mov.im

chunk: yeah, I'm not looking for tips to self-host (I've already been doing that at my small scale for the better part of a decade), I'm just looking for names of servers that are used to hosting and dealing with opensource projects and communities. Kind of the OFTC/libera.chat of XMPP that give confidence that you are in "good hands"

dunno, probably disroot or something ye

does movim lets one backlog a room without an account?

though if i were to host an established open source project that has its own domain and servers, i'd probably want to self-host it for the developers of that project and open the rooms up for external users

Converse might

grin: new opensource projects' domains are github and discord nowadays :) I'm simply trying to have a compelling option to oppose to "discord"

> Converse might converse has anonymous group

rom1dep, gotcha :). well i'm definitely not the target audience of those things but i get why projects find them appealing. for me, xmpp is the "fancy" thingy with voip support and file sharing while irc is the default :P

but to stay on-topic with the question, converse and movim looked like something that could be considered an "alternative" to discord i suppose. i haven't tried them, though

yep, I think movim does some of the "banquet" use-cases right, but I don't know if/how I could use it to effectively "bait" new users and contributors (who know nothing about XMPP) into getting involved. I think Matrix does that quite well: you see the discussion going on, and within few clicks, you can contribute as well

(just in case the "banquet" reference is new to some: https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2018/05/16/banquets-and-barbecues/ )

rom1dep, yeah I think we're still better at 'private chat' use cases than at public/team chat. Converse.js might be as close as you get. But the UX certainly won't blow away Discord & Matrix (that's obviously their #1 use case).

yeah. I think I like those "jump-in" buttons on https://jabberfr.org/

Is there a short comparison between Prosody and Metronome? I know the latter is a fork of the former and the Metronome website does provide a list of differences, but I’m confused because Prosody (somewhat understandably) does not list differences to Metronome, yet I constantly hear people suggest Prosody.

Movim will focus on group calls next

hook: metronome was a fork in 2009, now it's a different server lol

(I would also welcome a comparison between Movim and Libervia, but no idea if that’s something for this channel …not sure which one it would be though)

Think it's faster to set them up and compare :))

rom1dep: I didn't have enough time to test it (I want to also do that for my site) but in theory u can setup an ejabberd instance for anonymous only logins using converse.js as UI, with ACLs to only s2s with a given instance (where your muc will be hosted) and from that fully federated instance add an ACL to set as visitors everyone who joins from the anon instance

but didn't test it yet so maybe I'm wrong

thecoffemaker: yeah, that's kind of why I was asking if there are FOSS projects-friendly instances out there which would do the heavy lifting for lazy me (also, I don't want my own sysadmin biological limits to be on the critical path)

yeah ... been in lazy land and never came back 🤣

rom1dep: y'know, I've hosted both conversejs and movim (which I custoimized the css to much much nice) and used them both extensively. A guy, such as myself, would probably be willing to hear listed what you'd like and adapt something for your use case. Just an idea I had

myself I long time wanted to create a landing page for movim becauase when you hit the domain it probably confuses people wondering what to login with how

Some day I'd like to do a sort of xmpp pubsub (opposed to fediverse activity pub) ... not so much social network as much as foundry for the pubsub content, like movim, and let any XMPP user have their own customizable miniblog

chunk: do you happen to know if movim is open/accepting to this idea of a landing page?

rom1dep: agplv3 licence or some such, in order to host the code modified one must post the source code and give attribution, so, however about the branding or possible, or insinuated rebranding (should it just happen to appear that way) I think not allowed but i dunno.

As far as custom landing page, no problemo, just keep the source open and post it publicly

I meant it as "would they merge it/perceive it as a benefit for their project"

I guess

Well, I think edhelas enjoyed my efforts ^^

> Is xmpp network attack?? peachy too

rom1dep: https://cheogram.com/freedomware-muc/

eh, that's great :) Though https://anonymous.cheogram.com/ … could be improved 😄️

those cheogram folks are everywhere

> hook: metronome was a fork in 2009, now it's a different server lol Isn't something that forked off a fork forever umless there is a fresh start (rewrite)? Or do you only consider things a fork which still follow the upstream and only change name, color and a few things?

I don't think that implies it's not "still a fork", just that it forked long ago and diverged significantly

But what are the practical differences?

Between Prosody and Metronome (not the ontology or phenomenology of a fork)