XMPP Service Operators - 2024-02-24


  1. chunk

    hello again fellow computer buttoners

  2. thecoffemaker

    well seems our shitty ISP will let us offline for a couple of days once again ... I hate them at DOOM levels

  3. thecoffemaker

    so cyberdelia.com.ar ia offline again

  4. thecoffemaker

    https://j.404.city:5443/share/012a4a2c09913a2edfac8b01ac7436ce9b201926/E7Cob8RCELUIacvMZIEiSEHLjuwpFb26Ey2chTRF/zb2rhezMqbfGiXBbi44H22cooHpHpk2vsAYqHa6uWeGsnD663.jpg

  5. thecoffemaker

    ISP says it will send a technician tomorrow

  6. Licaon_Kter

    thecoffemaker: no backup modem and lte simqv

  7. Licaon_Kter

    thecoffemaker: no backup modem and lte sim?

  8. Polarian

    Licaon_Kter: do they look rich?

  9. thecoffemaker

    > thecoffemaker: no backup modem and lte sim? no, was planning to buy one but need one compatible with mikrotik and they are oretty expensive over this latitudes nowadays

  10. thecoffemaker

    > thecoffemaker: no backup modem and lte sim? no, was planning to buy one but need one compatible with mikrotik and they are pretty expensive over this latitudes nowadays

  11. thecoffemaker

    and mobile is not detected neither 🫠

  12. Polarian

    you could just use a cloud provider thecoffemaker

  13. Polarian

    thecoffemaker: what ISP is it?

  14. thecoffemaker

    > thecoffemaker: what ISP is it? personal ... french telecom in Argentina

  15. Licaon_Kter

    Polarian: even homeless peeps have phones and wireless headphones around here 5€/month buys you 50Gb of data Yes, I know the rest of the world has it worse :((

  16. Polarian

    >> thecoffemaker: what ISP is it? > personal ... french telecom in Argentina you are using domestic internet for hosting?

  17. Polarian

    > Polarian: even homeless peeps have phones and wireless headphones around here > > 5€/month buys you 50Gb of data > > Yes, I know the rest of the world has it worse :(( "here" being where?

  18. Licaon_Kter

    Isn't everyone?

  19. Polarian

    > Isn't everyone? no

  20. Licaon_Kter

    Polarian: ROU

  21. Polarian

    > Polarian: ROU ROU?

  22. Licaon_Kter

    Polarian: do note stories around here with datacenters and locked servers, it's not always by choice to choose your home as a data center

  23. thecoffemaker

    >> personal ... french telecom in Argentina > you are using domestic internet for hosting? rad 🤘🤘

  24. Polarian

    > Polarian: do note stories around here with datacenters and locked servers, it's not always by choice to choose your home as a data center I do self host

  25. Polarian

    But I pay for reliable network, not shite domestic scams

  26. Licaon_Kter

    Depends on speeds, 9€/month for 1Gb up/down lol

  27. Polarian

    > Depends on speeds, 9€/month for 1Gb up/down lol at what reliability?

  28. Polarian

    Rdns?

  29. Licaon_Kter

    But again, options and experiences might vary around the world

  30. thecoffemaker

    isnt that bad where ... the problem now is that they are switching to fiber and throwing maintenance of MoCA nectwork

  31. thecoffemaker

    isnt that bad where ... the problem now is that they are switching to fiber and throwing maintenance of MoCA network

  32. Licaon_Kter

    > at what reliability? Less than hours per year Worst was when they switched to dslite and killed home hosting Now i see that's off so I might return

  33. thecoffemaker

    isnt that bad here ... the problem now is that they are switching to fiber and throwing maintenance of MoCA network

  34. Licaon_Kter

    > Rdns? What?

  35. Polarian

    I pay a lot for my networking but I get: - RDNS support - IPv4 /29 /32 and IPv6 /48 - IRC support - GPG email support - transparency and reliability

  36. Polarian

    I only have vDSL though.

  37. Polarian

    reliability > speed though

  38. Polarian

    shitty fibre is inferior to good service

  39. Licaon_Kter

    ipv6 is not enabled in all networks, even if turn it on.....useless

  40. Polarian

    > ipv6 is not enabled in all networks, even if turn it on.....useless and this is why IPv6 is unsupported in IPv6 circlez

  41. Polarian

    cause nobody bothers

  42. thecoffemaker

    > shitty fibre is inferior to good service yes, I have in another location a shitty fiber provider and sucks

  43. thecoffemaker

    > But again, options and experiences might vary around the world I do it because I can, the fun of having a hobbie, my little DC is like a scale trains setup but functional

  44. thecoffemaker

    https://j.404.city:5443/share/012a4a2c09913a2edfac8b01ac7436ce9b201926/0DGCbvlvFzVwiwTXHuJSNmRieLoRBmxBLtiO7QXv/zb2rhdiNvBd9imCeWTyKrs1jnAC7Q2rKs6uSv8YaDwuJ8ACuM.jpg

  45. thecoffemaker

    will add that switch somewhere in time

  46. Licaon_Kter

    Polarian: yup, same ISP, land line, IPv6, mobile...only IPv4

  47. Licaon_Kter

    Polarian: yup, same ISP, land line IPv6, mobile...only IPv4

  48. moparisthebest

    Everyone should host a server at their own home, normalize home hosting

  49. thecoffemaker

    moparisthebest: +1

  50. Steven Roose

    moparisthebest: yeah until your home internet is down for a week because of some construction work accidentally breaking a line 🤷 no thanks

  51. Licaon_Kter

    Steven Roose: better down than mitm

  52. Steven Roose

    OMEMO?

  53. moparisthebest

    Steven Roose: data centers go down too, you'll live

  54. Steven Roose

    > Steven Roose: data centers go down too, you'll live Their whole business is about staying up. An ISP's business is about optimizing phone harassment strategies to sell new packages

  55. moparisthebest

    If I don't have internet it doesn't matter if my server is up or not, if I do, then my server can be up, I'm not seeing the problem

  56. Steven Roose

    I really think we should work out a proper old-to-new-client-key-retrieval protocol like the Matrix folks have and have a single-key-per-user topology

  57. Steven Roose

    > If I don't have internet it doesn't matter if my server is up or not, if I do, then my server can be up, I'm not seeing the problem You have mobile internet, don't you?

  58. moparisthebest

    Yes, and my XMPP server can run over it too in a pinch

  59. Licaon_Kter

    Small server is down, everybody comments on how this should be left to the experts in big data centers. Big server is down, _"oh let's do something else while it gets fixed, will wait"_. :rolleyes:

  60. techmetx11

    Licaon_Kter: discord is down for 30 seconds "NOOOOOOOOOO I NEED IT RIGHT NOW, MY IMPORTANT STUFF IS IN THERE"

  61. Licaon_Kter

    Yeah, at first... and next? They'll cope, I mean it's not like they can use other "discord server"

  62. techmetx11

    they will foam from the mouth

  63. Licaon_Kter

    That's a low bar

  64. techmetx11

    this is why too much centralization is bad

  65. techmetx11

    at least when a XMPP server is down, you can use another one

  66. techmetx11

    in discord, when it's down, it's down

  67. Licaon_Kter

    They'll have that thought for microsecond, then quickly change subject

  68. Licaon_Kter

    > this is why too much centralization is bad They'll have that thought for microsecond, then quickly change subject

  69. techmetx11

    yes

  70. techmetx11

    they'll be like that, until discord comes back on

  71. techmetx11

    and then they'll forget about it

  72. techmetx11

    Licaon_Kter: for most people, discord is the only way they can talk to their friends

  73. Licaon_Kter

    That's the lie

  74. r00tobo

    I fully agree with Steven Roose here. a home connection is not meant for hosting stuff at least if you label it "mission critical" because IM is very sensitive to uptime if it's down then your family or friends can't communicate with you. an ISP outage can last weeks literally. I have seen it

  75. r00tobo

    and on the topic of centralization. there is really no centralization in hosting a DC. because hosting providers are like infinite. different ASN different IP space different transits etc.. it's not likey ou are forced to use Linode or Digital Ocean or AWS

  76. Wirlaburla

    Let people host how they want to host. You have the choice, you have the power, you have the ability. Go with what you want and what you are comfortable with. There is nothing wrong with entirely depending on one or the other, as long as you know what the pros and cons are.

  77. Wirlaburla

    I do not believe we should be encouraging everyone to self-host, but I also do not believe we should be banking on data-hosted servers. We need a balance.

  78. r00tobo

    Yeah of course, I am not saying you have to host in a DC. but just be ready for downtime anytime

  79. Wirlaburla

    » Everyone should host a server at their own home, normalize home hosting This is the line I was mostly responding to. It's something said not with the best idea of how impossible this can be.

  80. Licaon_Kter

    Wirlaburla: the key word is "normalize" In other circles, home hosting will get out out of the room laughing....

  81. thecoffemaker

    > Steven Roose: data centers go down too, you'll live this

  82. moparisthebest

    > I fully agree with Steven Roose here. a home connection is not meant for hosting stuff at least if you label it "mission critical" because IM is very sensitive to uptime if it's down then your family or friends can't communicate with you. an ISP outage can last weeks literally. I have seen it Who said a home connection isn't meant for hosting stuff? Your ISP? Don't believe the lies, the internet actually works this way, every end is equal

  83. moparisthebest

    Decentralization is every household hosting all their own services that federate, this is the end goal. Centralizing stuff in datacenters does not accomplish that goal.

  84. thecoffemaker

    it's a guerilla against technofeudalism

  85. roughnecks

    my worst fear in hosting at home is something catching fire, especially at night

  86. moparisthebest

    Why would hosting at home make that any more likely.... You surely have plenty of stuff that can catch fire already

  87. moparisthebest

    Servers, especially ones like RPI, are exceedingly unlikely to catch fire

  88. roughnecks

    at night only the refrigerator is running, I believe, and some lights

  89. roughnecks

    I just don't trust it

  90. Menel

    Msot people have smart TVs etc too. Not all of them are homeless now

  91. moparisthebest

    What about your phone? And thermostat, and all the things plugged in, and the wires in your walls etc etc etc

  92. roughnecks

    >moparisthebest: What about your phone? And thermostat, and all the things plugged in, and the wires in your walls etc etc etc like that, it's just too dangerous as it is, I prefer not to add other stuff to the mix. Also if I had ro host something I'd prefer a server machine rather than a bare PI, maybe even without a case.. and you would need an UPS too

  93. roughnecks

    it's not worth to me anymore, prefer to pay for a VPS

  94. roughnecks

    and if it goes down, amen

  95. Menel

    Each their own

  96. roughnecks

    >Menel: Each their own :thumbsup:

  97. lavrentiy

    Offtopic but it sucks that apps like briar haven't improved enough on their own to replace xmpp for small groups (family/friends)

  98. Menel

    The good thing is, we're all free to do as we want, and have a lightweight enough protocol to have the ability for a few bucks to do so.

  99. Menel

    > Offtopic but it sucks that apps like briar haven't improved enough on their own to replace xmpp for small groups (family/friends) On the other hand, snikket has emerged and covers that quite good. Without external severs like briar needs to signal some stuff.

  100. moparisthebest

    >>moparisthebest: What about your phone? And thermostat, and all the things plugged in, and the wires in your walls etc etc etc > like that, it's just too dangerous as it is, I prefer not to add other stuff to the mix. Also if I had ro host something I'd prefer a server machine rather than a bare PI, maybe even without a case.. and you would need an UPS too roughnecks: you don't need any of that though

  101. moparisthebest

    Perfect is the enemy of good

  102. moparisthebest

    fwiw the Pi4 and pi5 are more powerful than any cheap VPS, will easily host a thousand XMPP users and I'd wager your family/friends aren't that big

  103. Menel

    Offside backups don't hurt of course

  104. agris

    they hurt

  105. agris

    It hurts when IP.

  106. agris

    yes I tried turning it off and on again.

  107. lavrentiy

    agris: drink more water

  108. chunk

    >> Everyone should host a server at their own home, normalize home hosting > This is the line I was mostly responding to. It's something said not with the best idea of how impossible this can be. this is actually most likely very dangerous btw

  109. chunk

    if you can't segregate and firewall a dmz and private subnet and keep your "home" "comfortable banking, etc" away from the public wan, then u ought to be one helluva boring individual or something, or get f#@kd

  110. chunk

    fuzzerz can be really mean, even before somebody takes over the keyboard

  111. chunk

    but building a home network is sooooooo much fun with inux :D

  112. chunk

    but building a home network is sooooooo much fun with Linux :D