XMPP Service Operators - 2024-04-19

for blocklist -> slideshow@conversations.im spammed in jj

snikket dot deeeeee: if xmpp doesn't improve it's clients it's going to lose in the long term.

The situation is worse then it was ten years ago

You can have the greatest spec in the world, if there's no good implementation of it it's useless

are you suggesting we go and buy iphones and use imessage and facetime?

Did I ever say that?

have some optimism :)

I have optimism in that the protocol is the best we've got right now and it has real oppurtunity to become better

But if all the clients that actually work and implement the minimum current standard for at least instant messaging are only smartphone uis

No matter how much we want xmpp to succeed if it doesn't work properly it's not going to win out longterm

The XSF should put more of their effort and money into client development instead of focusing a whole bunch on standards and servers from which nobody can actually use

Except a super small minority of a private company who makes some proprietary internal thing that utlizes the xmpp protocol but never shares

That state of xmpp servers vs clients is drasticlly different

The more clients that get neglected or prematuraly deprecated certainly aren't helping.

I think the thing that would really help XMPP is more people posting random rants about clients being crap.

All clients except MCabber suck?

Exactly.

https://files.mdosch.de/upload/XBayBybUq4Fkgj5_w7KGqTJs/dnoL8Ek8RvecR8Yttr5ZMQ.jpg

But on android you'll need profanity as no mcabber there…

Build it n00b

I don't get why you are so addicted to clients. Just use telnet…

you're joking but he is right. I have spoken.

Hi

Which server do you recommend https://www.freie-messenger.de/en/xmpp/server/

alghareb: I recommend you run your own Snikket

> alghareb: I recommend you run your own Snikket that's not possible for many people ↺

> Which server do you recommend > > https://www.freie-messenger.de/en/xmpp/server/ https://providers.xmpp.net/ ↺

>> alghareb: I recommend you run your own Snikket > that's not possible for many people It's possible for everyone ↺

> It's possible for everyone hmm ↺

not really

You aren't going to get your Grandma to learn sysadmin skills

and its wasteful to run an XMPP server per user

plus bare in mind that most people do not have a homelab, so they would need to pay a cloud provider... is it truly more private than using one of the many public providers

Of course you're right, not *everyone* but.. > @FediThing@chinwag.org 🔗 https://social.chinwag.org/users/FediThing/statuses/112298739743350835 > - > Just set up my first ever XMPP/Jabber instance, used the managed hosting service @snikket_im 🦜 > > So far so good... 🤞 > > It works in a pretty similar way to other managed hosting services like @mastohost, simplifies everything. It's pretty much like running a webmail account, don't have to get involved with server level stuff at all. > > #XMPP #Jabber > >

Serious, what is the actual benefit of that vs just a shared server? Slightly more control?

Like every jmp sub comes with a snikket instance? But why?

Is the conversations hosted service the same or just a virtualhost with your own domain?

Vs like a container for each

> Of course you're right, not *everyone* but.. > > @FediThing@chinwag.org 🔗 https://social.chinwag.org/users/FediThing/statuses/112298739743350835 > > - > > Just set up my first ever XMPP/Jabber instance, used the managed hosting service @snikket_im 🦜 > > > > So far so good... 🤞 > > > > It works in a pretty similar way to other managed hosting services like @mastohost, simplifies everything. It's pretty much like running a webmail account, don't have to get involved with server level stuff at all. > > > > #XMPP #Jabber > > > > Of course ↺

the whole idea is the freedom

but I don't believe in moparisthebest constant attempts to _force_ people into self hosting

I know tons of people who swear by it... and their servers are down constantly, you can't ever contact them when needed...

> You aren't going to get your Grandma to learn sysadmin skills Then it's not easy enough and we need to make it easier ↺

unless someone is interested in learning to host... why should they host it themself? It costs more money (domain + hosting) and they have to worry about keeping the thing secure and up to date

If granny can install an app on her phone or TV she should be able to run her own server

> If granny can install an app on her phone or TV she should be able to run her own server its a very idealistic way of thinking of it ↺

but unfortunately there is a reason people go to university and study for years

My self hosted server has only been down for a single 3 hour period once 4 years ago It isn't that hard to maintain reliability

Ideally it should be that easy. I agree with moparisthebest.

> My self hosted server has only been down for a single 3 hour period once 4 years ago > > It isn't that hard to maintain reliability cloud or self hosted? ↺

So they can write the stuff granny can install

sorry I got to take the elitist point of view here... simplying things is not the way

Otherwise she'll install WhatsApp

and with ever more legislation on digital services, I am sure self hosting will be illegal in a few years

> Otherwise she'll install WhatsApp no... she can use one of the *MANY* providers ↺

That's how you get WhatsApp

which have skilled sysadmin(s) maintaining the server...

> That's how you get WhatsApp no... ↺

moparisthebest, you are obviously in the wrong community... I think you would be better off looking for a decentralised chat protocol

It's fine for us to not agree but my goal is everyone able to easily run their own

XMPP is designed to be federated, that is how federation works ✏

Yes, federated, everyone running their own server

Polarian: all of the decentralized protocols require tons of servers Licaon has a good poem about it

> It's fine for us to not agree but my goal is everyone able to easily run their own if they want to sure... not saying make it complicated... but the average person who is not tech savvy would have a better experience signing up to one of the many providers, instead of trying to set it up on their own... ↺

> Polarian: all of the decentralized protocols require tons of servers > Licaon has a good poem about it xD ✏ ↺

nature of the internet

> Yes, federated, everyone running their own server connection sprawling ↺