XMPP Service Operators - 2024-06-20


  1. emus

    Dear all, I would like to start a discussion around the future of jabber.de. Its obviously is a lost case in the current way its maintained and run. I think the operator needs help or should create a shut down plan

  2. Guus

    I'm not sure how that's any of anyone's business, unless the owner/operator asks for assistance? We as a community can't comment on the future of some kind of service that's not ran by us.

  3. MattJ

    I agree. It's weird to discuss the future of someone else's server...

  4. emus

    > I'm not sure how that's any of anyone's business, unless the owner/operator asks for assistance? We as a community can't comment on the future of some kind of service that's not ran by us. Well, these "kids" mess up the reputation of the entire network incl. its apps.

  5. emus

    incl. businesses behind it

  6. emus

    this server had more than 4000 active users

  7. emus

    thats the reason why I bring this up

  8. moparisthebest

    emus: how's your public server doing?

  9. emus

    moparisthebest: I dont understand the question?

  10. moparisthebest

    emus: I'm asking if you've had any problems or downtime with the big public server you run

  11. emus

    moparisthebest: I dont run any server. but issues if a difference to what happened with this server since the takeover. Im not here to blame but it is a general problem

  12. worlio.com

    » [12:50:21] <emus> Well, these "kids" mess up the reputation of the entire network incl. its apps. I don't see how. Maybe the reputation of the server, but the users on there are the ones who decided to register there in the first place. The great thing about XMPP is that it is federated and open, and anyone can run a server.

  13. moparisthebest

    emus: then you should 100% start a big public server, maintain it better, and encourage jabber.de or any other users to switch if they like! or otherwise don't comment... If the jabber.de admin wants help they can ask here. If the users want to move they will. 🤷‍♂️

  14. worlio.com

    And nobody can really do anything anyhow. It isn't our place to dictate how jabber.de is ran. If it isn't doing good, that is on their admin and only their admin.

  15. Trung

    all the Germans can move to my place if they promise they're going to fight the sharks

  16. ij

    > emus: I'm asking if you've had any problems or downtime with the big public server you run I’m just curious: what is a big public server in terms of user count?

  17. Trung

    ij: billions and billions and billions and billions

  18. worlio.com

    On XMPP? Unrealistic numbers.

  19. Trung

    believe me, whatsapp is XMPP

  20. ij

    > And nobody can really do anything anyhow. It isn't our place to dictate how jabber.de is ran. If it isn't doing good, that is on their admin and only their admin. Well, we could offer help, but it’s up to the other admins to accept that help

  21. emus

    >> [12:50:21] <emus> Well, these "kids" mess up the reputation of the entire network incl. its apps. > I don't see how. Maybe the reputation of the server, but the users on there are the ones who decided to register there in the first place. The great thing about XMPP is that it is federated and open, and anyone can run a server. I think such statements are a limited view to 98% of the users. These users will NEVER blame any server they will blame the app. And it they blame the app and its not working, then they don't use it. The same way the network of it will loose reputation and acceptance. Providers have the potential for negative impact to the entire network.

  22. emus

    > emus: then you should 100% start a big public server, maintain it better, and encourage jabber.de or any other users to switch if they like! > > or otherwise don't comment... If the jabber.de admin wants help they can ask here. If the users want to move they will. 🤷‍♂️ Thats not my point but yes, does anyone have their contact

  23. emus

    moparisthebest: They will not switch, they will leave the network behind

  24. praskovia

    is there a xep to abstract a person from a jid? so that you could intermix them?

  25. emus

    praskovia: I think so, but I found mail

  26. emus

    praskovia: I think so, but I found a mail

  27. Menel

    I don't think I get your question, can you rephrase that or give examples? Also a better room for that could be xmpp:xsf@muc.xmpp.org?join

  28. Trung

    > These users will NEVER blame any server they will blame the app. And it they blame the app and its not working, then they don't use it. The same way the network of it will loose reputation and acceptance. Providers have the potential for negative impact to the entire network.

  29. Trung

    Honestly i think it might be better if this group of users leave the network. To me, they are like the people who have no manner and little skill behind the wheels on the road.

  30. emus

    > Honestly i think it might be better if this group of users leave the network. To me, they are like the people who have no manner and little skill behind the wheels on the road. Well, then thats also where XMPP stays. But its not my idea of how software or services should be build in the end

  31. moparisthebest

    Choose one: 1. walled garden with servers ran by 1 entity until they run out of money. 2. federated utopia where anyone can run servers that all interoperate, some are poorly run, some not, most will go away eventually but the network lives on.

  32. praskovia

    3. glorious p2p

  33. moparisthebest

    XMPP s2s is p2p ;)

  34. Kris

    Umm, while I agree that there is probably little we can do if the jabber.de admins don't ask for help, I think it is entirely reasonable to be concerned.

  35. Kris

    it is in the interest of other server admins that large public servers are well maintained.

  36. Kris

    Not only because of spam and abuse

  37. Kris

    https://joinjabber.org/about/community/covenant/

  38. Kris

    This was one of the reasons we made the above