XMPP Service Operators - 2026-02-18

I thought spoons was run by someone who's politically questionable at best and homophobic at worst and should be avoided

Or maybe that was Stagecoach

or both

Now I have to ask: Do we have a separate offtopic chat?

Seems like there'd be use for that

i dont believe so

if it doesnt exist, i dont have the bot to make it admins only, but id be willing to make/host it

unofficial offtopic

jjj333_p [pain.agency], I can make that bot join somewhere

xmpp:operators-offtopic@group.pain.agency?join

jjj333_p [pain.agency], will look into it later. if there's no bot by tomorrow, ping me again here between 15:00 UTC and 17:00 UTC

great thats 6am my time lol

Dd ✏

D: ✏

wait i calculated wrong, its im unsure, not sober enough to figure out lmfao ✏

> right icebound.dev, when are we off to spoons luna@lunrox.co.uk, I was at one last night in London 🤣 ↺

> I thought spoons was run by someone who's politically questionable at best and homophobic at worst and should be avoided your own political views are your own, but where others choose to spend their money is none of your business ↺

homophoby is not an opinion and not tolerated here.

lol

>> I thought spoons was run by someone who's politically questionable at best and homophobic at worst and should be avoided > your own political views are your own, but where others choose to spend their money is none of your business Yeah, it's really not my business if business owners spread hate against a group I'm part of. I should really just ignore the hate instead of pointing out its existence, lol /s

it's the only place people can afford

(this should probably move to dms or something, politics probably doesnt even belong in the offtopic room)

based.pt, xa0.uk, care to elaborate your comment/reaction?

nope

no

https://http.sunglocto.net:5281/file_share/019c709d-0c47-7a47-83a0-423d0032dac4/zb2rheJyvnFD38HWCCFRyr7qAwkVwVjpQvJBBuLpqNdPDhTrZ.gif

then refrain from commenting.

This message has been retracted by the sender.

i didn't

i reacted to an existing comment :)

xa0.uk, which is also a comment, albeit a very short one.

what are you reading into laughter?

do you believe me to be a homophobe?

xa0.uk, if I believed that, I wouldn't have asked but instead removed you from this place without further questions.

so the headline is that laughter is not permitted. got it

I can only believe you're being deliberately argumentative here, because it's pretty obvious that context matters

every single time

Does anyone have stats on what % of servers still expect client certificates?

alfred, I'm afraid not. I think it'd be hard to even get stats on how many servers are actually _running_.

> flagging as in going up and down rapidly I think the term for this is flapping

Guus: could just use server list from those on s.j.n etc?

alfred: that'd give you _a_ result. It would also exclude a lot of servers.

Even with using all known server lists, there is no way to not miss any

> Does anyone have stats on what % of servers still expect client certificates? alfred: do you mean for client login on c2s ? no and likely none or very near if you mean for s2s that's basically 100% ↺

?

Oh, I guess it depends what you mean by "client certificates"

I expect the question was about the client purpose EKU

Given that it's February 2026

yea wasn't sure what was meant

I mean for s2s, some servers have started failing to connect to my new lets encrypt certificate

I guess they're just all outdated prosody/ejabberd or some other weird server?

only old ejabberd

Well, ancient Prosody (well over 10 years ago). Can't rule out someone running that *somewhere* :)

But the ejabberd update with the fix was "only" last year, and there are a bunch of servers that haven't updated yet

The majority I checked seemed to be up to date though

(from the providers list)

> Well, ancient Prosody (well over 10 years ago). Can't rule out someone running that *somewhere* :) I think we can safely assume none of those would trust the old LE cert anyway though ↺

That's true

> it's the only place people can afford See, there's the issue. We can't just rely on people making different choice if everything else costs more. :)

> alfred, I'm afraid not. I think it'd be hard to even get stats on how many servers are actually _running_. x amount of servers :p

If I've learned anything, it's that you can't safely assume _anything_. ;)

BTW, what is the best estimation we have?

It must be at least 4 digits I'm sure

But is it low four digits, high four digits, even more..?

estimation of what?

Servers running? A lot more than that. Openfire has something like 50,000 - most of which are likely not federating by the way. I can only assume that prosody, Snikket, and ejabberd have larger numbers. That leaves the other six server implementations out of scope.

> Servers running? A lot more than that. Openfire has something like 50,000 - most of which are likely not federating by the way. I can only assume that prosody, Snikket, and ejabberd have larger numbers. That leaves the other six server implementations out of scope. That's a lot for a server implementation I hear very little about

So Ejabberd and Prosody likely have more

Don't ask what percentage are on a recent version...

BTW, how is that feature called that you can click/tap a reply and get to the original message?

some years ago someone tried to estimate Prosody servers running by portscanning the internet or so, and the number they came up with was 70,000

> > Servers running? A lot more than that. Openfire has something like 50,000 - most of which are likely not federating by the way. I can only assume that prosody, Snikket, and ejabberd have larger numbers. That leaves the other six server implementations out of scope. > > That's a lot for a server implementation I hear very little about I know someone who hosts it, because her now dead sister used to host it ↺

thats the only openfire instance im aware of

but to my knowledge its entirely usable these days

I want to try it out some day

I know how to host ejabberd and Prosody, now I just need to learn more about the others

> homophoby is not an opinion and not tolerated here. You can't tell us what we can/can not buy because it doesn't align with your politics. I understand that airing offensive views here is prohibited, but the idea that we can't drink somewhere because the owner potentially doesn't align with your politics is a complete violation of our individual freedom. ↺

> You can't tell us what we can/can not buy because it doesn't align with your politics. I understand that airing offensive views here is prohibited, but the idea that we can't drink somewhere because the owner potentially doesn't align with your politics is a complete violation of our individual freedom. Stop it. Nobody even said that. ↺

> Stop it. Nobody even said that. I wish so, but I know Jonas well enough. I don't appreciate hostility towards me or luna, from you or jonas. So instead of making it out like I am exaggerating, I request you both drop it. ↺

God forbid someone mentions a pub they drink at and get accused of homophobia.

does this have to happen in the muc meant for discussing server administration?

Luna mentioned it, erebion moaned about the owner of the company, I said its none of their business where someone chooses to drink, and Jonas warned about homophobia

at each of those turns, it was a choice

icebound.dev: Seems you feel attacked, yet I see no attack here. This seems like an unnecessary discussion which spams this chat.

be like Elsa, let it go... ❄️

> icebound.dev: Seems you feel attacked, yet I see no attack here. This seems like an unnecessary discussion which spams this chat. No I don't I don't like the comment made against luna thats all. In any case this discussion is over. ↺

I cannot see any attack anywhere by anyone in the 100 messages. After that I gave up trying to find one.

*the last 100

> In any case this discussion is over

There was hardly a discussion, it was not even clear what claim you wanted to talk about, so it did not even start, but yeah... lol

> In any case this discussion is over

xD

Any ideas how many ejabberd servers might be out there?

> Servers running? A lot more than that. Openfire has something like 50,000 - most of which are likely not federating by the way. I can only assume that prosody, Snikket, and ejabberd have larger numbers. That leaves the other six server implementations out of scope. I imagine that to be more than Openfire ↺

literally just asked and the answer is no, basically unknowable, you can get some partial numbers various ways but that's it

> I imagine that to be more than Openfire Openfire is used a lot by companies, not so much individuals ↺

although in my experience (sorry Guus) as someone whos operated Openfire for years, its very buggy and things break constantly.

I wonder why they use it. I have never tried it, so no idea where it shines.

Without metrics, based entirely on my experience, Openfire is very performant, its fast. Its Java so memory use will obviously be above ejabberd and prosody, but its definitely got the performance edge.

again I haven't benchmarked it, im going purely on experience

Yeah, but for that to the deployment would have to be quite large, as ejabberd is also quite performant

> again I haven't benchmarked it, im going purely on experience ie making up crap? have you considered just not? ↺

> ie making up crap? have you considered just not? Oh please stop it. ↺

if you are gonna make claims about speed, benchmarks or gtfo

Still no reason to call people's experience "crap".

"I think it feels fast" is making up crap

That's not even what was said

>based entirely on my experience, Openfire is very performant

Nothing about "I think it feels"

no benchmarks mean feels

I don't make the rules :P

> ie making up crap? have you considered just not? no, I have used prosody and observed some slowness, prosody's default storage is slow, and I have also observed slowness around pulling HTTP file uploads ↺

> "I think it feels fast" is making up crap no, I haven't got the specific metrics, but I know for sure based on speed of pulling MAM that Openfire is faster for that, likely because its embedded db is faster than prosodys default install. I would be interested to compare external DB prosody against external DB openfire though ↺

here we go with the feelz again, if anyone wants hallucinations on XMPP server speed they can ask an LLM anyone who really cares can run benchmarks

can we please stop these unneccessary arguments on this channel? it is about reporting issues to server admins.

> here we go with the feelz again, if anyone wants hallucinations on XMPP server speed they can ask an LLM > > anyone who really cares can run benchmarks I have just said I am interested in doing this 🤦‍♂️ ↺

> can we please stop these unneccessary arguments on this channel? it is about reporting issues to server admins. And discussing server operatoring too, so discussion of XMPP server does seem to fit the channel, although I agree about the arguing. Mopar is just being mopar like usual. ↺