XMPP Service Operators - 2026-03-30

https://share.based.pt:5281/file_share/069c9c92-0a02-7744-ae70-980574fcaf8b/zb2rhn8tFNLi8ZyxHnbRP22qiRfBUoUFSkexo4gSZo8nsAeCi.oga

gross

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>> folks, did you notice the mod_s2s_vmesh prosody module? it is amazing. i like it so much i have generalized it, and wrote a dns server: gemini://bbs.geminispace.org/s/Yggdrasil/40667 > > It's neat but I don't really get the point vs regular DNS? Regular DNS is centralized. ↺

um no it's not

The allocation of domains ultimately relies on delegation from the central root.

This manifests as, among other things, domains costing money to rent.

Also, the security relies on a single-point-of-failure DNSSEC root key.

And on your registrar setting your desired NS and DS records for your domain, instead of the ones they or an authoritarian government wants.

There are a few reasons I like it: 1) it doesn't rely on any external infrastructure, so it can work entirely isolated from the public internet, 2) it works without anyone needing to run any network services (in non-internet mesh networks it's not always clear who runs those), 3) it's free (I renewed some domains just today and the price increases over the past few years are shocking... although I encourage people to buy domains for self-hosting, it's not always affordable)

I didn't write the module because I think it should replace the current DNS system and everyone should switch to v6.alt, I just think alternatives can be good and useful for various use cases

MattJ, I was asked on gemini forum why v4.alt if there's already .meship, and i answered that perhaps because .meship doesn't support subdomains, and because it is not rfc compliant and in theory someone can take .meship in the future and that would create a name conflict.

MattJ, because of your work i now run prosody on pinephone and today i had no electricity at home, whole day, so my server was down, but i still had connection with my wife, because i have no other way of connection, only xmpp. no phone number either.

and i am inky from yggdrasil chat.

> Regular DNS is centralized. for the most part you have full control over DNS, anyone who relies on DNSSEC in this room I urge you to run your own nameserver and hold your own DNSSEC keys, do not trust your DNS provider with such control. ↺

But yeah apart from having to pay for registration DNS is rather open

well some registrars and tlds are sort of scams, they sell you domain for a very low price for the first year, and then for the second, they raise the price 6 times or sometimes 60 times.

xmppinion about yggdrasil vs cjdns?

my understanding that yggdrasil tried to solve some cjdns problems.

there are no supernodes, your phone can become a router between two different yggdrasil clusters.

> xmppinion about yggdrasil vs cjdns? neither are pratical for XMPp. ↺

Maybe someone can suggest a venue for that discussion

XMPP relies on federation, thus you want the most devices available, when you limit yourself to an overlay network like yggdrasil it limits massively who you can peer with ✏

> Maybe someone can suggest a venue for that discussion yeah its offtopic sorry. ↺

hueso, use mopars self hosting MUC

xmpp:selfhost@chat.moparisthe.best?join

icebound.dev, btw, i have an xmpp flavoured protocol: https://github.com/norayr/barev-purple that is serverless.

i use it as well, over yggdrasil.

> well some registrars and tlds are sort of scams, they sell you domain for a very low price for the first year, and then for the second, they raise the price 6 times or sometimes 60 times. maxwelld, the new tld's are pricy, mainly because they are new. If you are registering ccTLDs they are dirt cheap, for example .uk is like £7/yr, which is pennies. ↺

but since no mobile apps yet, and my wife's phone is android, not linux, thus i have configured xmpp server on pinephone via s2s_mesh plugin.

> hueso, use mopars self hosting MUC ^^^ ↺

i sincerely think that yggdrasil solves most of hierarchical internet problems we have. and it would be good to promote it and it would be good if all xmpp servers would also have an yggdrasil ip.

because that would make xmpp federation more inclusive.

i have some friends who can't have real ips and would like to selfhost.

but it's not possible to get real ips from their isps.

since they have xmpp servers on ygg, and my server also has ygg ip, it can federate with them.

and i think we want to make the space more inclusive. because otherwise we are pushing people to register on nodes with free registration, that have spam issues (jabber.org users for example get lots of russian spam)

and some mucs i know banned access from such servers with free registration, because people who want to pollute, come to mucs and pollute from those servers.

maxwelld, You have already been asked by MattJ to move channel, I provided you a channel where you could move to, please do so.

if someone from my server pollutes, i'll just talk to them, or close their account.

> maxwelld, You have already been asked by MattJ to move channel, I provided you a channel where you could move to, please do so. oh yeah, i can't join it for some reason. ↺

moparisthebest, is it member only?

No its not, potentially a s2s issue?

maxwelld, whats your server

ծոց.հայ

i think i am in some moparisthebest muc already.

Yeah I can't peer with your server maxwell

I wonder if the unicode will cause issues

perhaps your server tries to peer with my yggdrasil ipv6. let me understand.

well drill cant see any A/AAAA records, or any srv records

but then again I think unicode is causing issues because I can connect to port 80 via firefox

unicode in xmpp never caused issues for me, sincerely. if no dns records, maybe it is a cache issue since authoritative dns is on the same server and we had an electricity outage whole day.

/my trying to figure out.

hmm seems you have bigger issues than what overlay network to use, how about starting with reliable hosting. If you are prone to power outages invest in a UPS, or colocate/rent in the cloud. Also if you lose your DNS due to a power outage then you have configured it wrong, DNS requires a minimum of two nameservers, yes you can just point both to the same one, but you should have both for this exact reason, as DNS outage is a major problem.

icebound.dev, i don't want reliable hosting, i want homelab.

i realized what was your issue, did you dig/nslookup the punycode version of the domain?

you need to do idn2 before looking up.

> i realized what was your issue, did you dig/nslookup the punycode version of the domain? like I said unicode causes issues for some software :) ↺

however xmpp servers have no problems with unicode domains, and in prosody i write the unicode version, not the punycode version.

not for xmpp (:

unicode is a modern thing, just like ipv6. we should aim to use unicode and ipv6, i believe.

> icebound.dev, i don't want reliable hosting, i want homelab. Right so you are telling people above that they should host their own XMPP server and yggdrasil helps this, and then you proceed to say that you are homelabbing and dont want it to be reliable. You can't daily drive XMPP if your server goes down when you need to communicate with others, which means you inevitably need to sign up to a public provider as a backup, or use a different protocol when your server is down, kinda defeating the entire purpose of running an XMPP server. This is offtopic and not productive in the slightest, a spam prone server is infinitely better than a server which is down often. Uptime is the #1 most important thing when hosting services, not the speed, not the features, it all means nothing if you can't access the service when you need it the most. ↺

(#2 would be security IMO :p)

homelabbers don't think so.

secondly, statistically i have no outages. today was a special day, the electrical network had to do some work for our building.

i'll invest in a better ups one day.

> homelabbers don't think so. homelabbing often means hosting services you can do without, such as home streaming, music servers etc... not something critical such as communications with your friends and family. ↺

well i solved that with: a) my purple plugin and protocol over yggdrasil b) xmpp server with v6.alt domain on pinephone. both via yggdrasil, so i am a fan.

so, removed yggdrasil ip from dns, and was able to federate with one more xmpp server via clearnet ipv6.

still can't join moparisthebest muc.

maxwelld, do you have clearnet IPv4?

yep.

can you do a s2s test on mopar's server please, see if you can peer

I will try again on mine

it was resolving to clearnet ipv4 and yggdrasil ipv6. changed the ipv6 part of dns to clearnet ipv6.

still nothing

right thats weird

<iq type="get" id="759-13731" from="icebound.dev" to="xn--cbbu1a.xn--y9a3aq"><ping xmlns="urn:xmpp:ping"/></iq> <iq type="error" id="759-13731" to="icebound.dev" from="xn--cbbu1a.xn--y9a3aq"><ping xmlns="urn:xmpp:ping"/><error code="404" type="cancel"><remote-server-not-found xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-stanzas"/></error></iq>

however I can telnet using the srv record manually

both IPv6 and IPv4

this might just be openfire not being able to handle unicode/punycode properly

i think you shouldn't use punycode in xmpp stanzas.

Openfire automatically converts it

Guus, sorry for the ping, has Openfire ever been tested peering with unicode servers?

sorry i will need to leave, too late here.

thank you.

No problem, I got to sleep too