XMPP Service Operators - 2026-05-03

conference.process-one.net is down?

of course the second I post this it seems to connect again 🤦

cyberdelia.com.ar is still running behind a shitty LTE modem that needs to be reseted at leats once each 32hrs ... reseted by hand pushing the power button. So if anyone is having issues with our service, it is because of that... if the service isn't comming back soon is because we went out and can't push the button. We hope tomorrow the issue gets solved and our ISP finally give us the service we are paying for ✏

> cyberdelia.com.ar is still running behind a shitty LTE modem that needs to be reseted at leats once each 32hrs ... reseted by hand pushing the power button. So if anyone is having issues with our service, it is because of that... if the service isn't comming back soon is because we went out and can't push the button. We hope tomorrow the issue gets solved and our ISP finally give us the service we are paying for I've "solved" these kinds of issues with power plug timers which power cycle once a day during the night ↺

I get self-hosting at home is probbaly the coolest, but sometimes a cheap VPS works better than that

depends

depends on ur ISP, ur specs and the VPS provider ur comparing to

ive been self hosting from home for like 2~3 years so far i havent found a VPS that would be worth switching to

i get better specs and my ISP is very permissive

only issue is lack of rDNS for email

VPS are the smaller brother of cloud infra. They are convenient, but you nearly always end up paying significantly more then doing it on premise.

depends

if u dont got the hardware

ur cooked

ram prices so high 16GB of aliexpress ecc ram is 110€

thats more than what i paid for my cpu mobo and ram back in 2023

2024*

DDR3 is cheap and for selfhosting totally fine.

ig

but then u gota get a ddr3 mobo and cpu

idk, if u wana do some gaming that might really not work as well

based.pt: try asking your ISP to set your PTR record to what you want, sometimes that works (it did for me)

they dont even know what a PTR record is

yikes

i call them from time to time

i just sent them an email and had it answered by someone knowledgeable

"yo can i get a PTR record to based.pt?"

idk my ISPs email

ye my ISP has some AI awnsering machine so i gota state that i dont got internet to talk to a technician

they also got 3 diferent numbers and i keep forgeting which one is which

if it is Meo then they will just let you get stuck in their horrible AI driven support bot. ✏

cuz i usually try to call the engineering team

which awnsers instantly and fixes my shit well

they even reset my lost configs

> I've "solved" these kinds of issues with power plug timers which power cycle once a day during the night this is not ideal for hosting lol. ↺

these are the kind of solutions you use for temporary internet, not even home internet, yet alone providing a service.

> I get self-hosting at home is probbaly the coolest, but sometimes a cheap VPS works better than that if its for you or your friends, then sure theres no obligations, but I know some people here are applying for public provider, and are self hosting, and do not have the proper gear to host reliably. I think this is a major provider issue right now. ↺

Note: I am not against self hosting, I am strongly supportive of it, but if you do not invest the money into the right gear to have a somewhat stable provider, please keep it to personal/friend use, and do not open it up to others.

the last few days people I have onboarded have went through hell with unreliable providers, to the point where I am pretty much blue in the face. I ensured that XMPP is stable and functional, and "Just works" now, and its not like it used to be, and I was completely wrong, and I feel like an idiot.

07f.de despite saying they are looking into the issue, STILL haven't fixed their server 24 hours later.

and they are an A tier provider.

aka "the best of the best"

Yes I understand some of these are individuals, I understand people have life circumstances, but if the A tier providers cant be trusted for uptime, how can we ever mainstream XMPP? ✏

> the last few days people I have onboarded have went through hell with unreliable providers, to the point where I am pretty much blue in the face. I ensured that XMPP is stable and functional, and "Just works" now, and its not like it used to be, and I was completely wrong, and I feel like an idiot. maybe you should recommend them a server instead of telling them to choose ↺

> maybe you should recommend them a server instead of telling them to choose no, this is against my belief ↺

my belief is people should naturally pick the server they want, otherwise we turn into matrix

I could easily say "just use conversations.im", but we would end up like matrix.org

then make the A tier account for stuff like uptime and admin response rather than "it follows these specs"

> then make the A tier account for stuff like uptime and admin response rather than "it follows these specs" its being worked on ↺

I have moaned in providers already about this

then wait

but if I was any use, I would actually go in and offer to help out

> I have moaned in providers already about this providers MUC, please ↺

its relavent in this channel too

i get why you're complaining,

> and they are an A tier provider. A tier doesn't mean reliable. Those are still mostly all volunteer run hobby servers ↺

but if you don't want to become matrix.org, referring to a centralised and flawed providers site is kind of not far away from that

> ive been self hosting from home for like 2~3 years so far i havent found a VPS that would be worth switching to based.pt, there is a hidden benefit to cloud which people often overlook. It is cheaper for you to host a single server, with good specs sure. But redundancy, what happens if that server breaks, or you lose a disk? In datacentres the vps can be brought up on another host, or is replicated, so while you are running one single server, a vps you are paying for could have many physical servers it is located on for redundancy. Not to mention, data loss is a big issue when self hosting, as backups are expensive. Theres also the issue of electricity, which is usually the biggest cost for hosting (after internet access) ↺

> A tier doesn't mean reliable. Those are still mostly all volunteer run hobby servers singpolyma, in many ways providers have revolutionised XMPP, it is so damn useful. However indeed, as you said, it doesn't mean reliable. It is providing users with a false sense of reliability, and for many, this is what they want. When they use whatsapp, or Discord, they know their service will keep being provided day in, day out. When you use some providers, it is not unheard of for downtime, or for people to give up hosting it, how do you push XMPP to replace proprietary solutions when some of the hosts are no better than a 13 year olds school project? ↺

if you don't have a contract with someone and they are paying you then you have 0 obligations towards them

> if you don't have a contract with someone and they are paying you then you have 0 obligations towards them which is why I have heavily endorsed paid servers, but providers pretty much prohibit it (you can be listed but you will be listed as a bad server) and many people here rigidly oppose such a suggestion. ↺

I will work on adding a UK provider, seen as I already host a few XMPP servers.

>> A tier doesn't mean reliable. Those are still mostly all volunteer run hobby servers > singpolyma, in many ways providers have revolutionised XMPP, it is so damn useful. > > However indeed, as you said, it doesn't mean reliable. It is providing users with a false sense of reliability, and for many, this is what they want. When they use whatsapp, or Discord, they know their service will keep being provided day in, day out. When you use some providers, it is not unheard of for downtime, or for people to give up hosting it, how do you push XMPP to replace proprietary solutions when some of the hosts are no better than a 13 year olds school project? selfhost your own, invite your friends ↺

"providers" ? you mean that one volunteer site that rates servers? if you have a problem with them take it up with them or do better yourself, nothing to do with here

> selfhost your own, invite your friends when I am advertising for XMPP at conferences and selling the idea of federation, how does it look if I say "dont use any other server but mine?" ↺

> "providers" ? you mean that one volunteer site that rates servers? if you have a problem with them take it up with them or do better yourself, nothing to do with here providers is heavily linked in with the ecosystem, but yes I have been discussing this in provider.s ↺

like I said, the reason I started this discussion is if you will self host, and you plan to self host for more than just you and your friends, please do it properly.

tbh i dont want you to go advertise at conferences that way. Maybe as a summer project make your own curated providers site (or join the current effort improving it)

good things take time, and effort

> tbh i dont want you to go advertise at conferences that way. Maybe as a summer project make your own curated providers site (or join the current effort improving it) and then what, have competition between provider lists? not a terrible idea, but when we can simply work on improving the existing one, it would be redundant eh? ↺

yes when you use aim or msn or google chat or google hangouts or google allo etc etc you know the provider will never go down... wait

I want to patch authbot to be able whois people in this channel, would make life easier

> yes when you use aim or msn or google chat or google hangouts or google allo etc etc you know the provider will never go down... wait of course they did, but not as frequently as some providers. ↺

>> if you don't have a contract with someone and they are paying you then you have 0 obligations towards them > which is why I have heavily endorsed paid servers, but providers pretty much prohibit it (you can be listed but you will be listed as a bad server) and many people here rigidly oppose such a suggestion. I was a bit sad when c.im stopped being paid ↺

alright whatever I will drop out of this discussion

>> "providers" ? you mean that one volunteer site that rates servers? if you have a problem with them take it up with them or do better yourself, nothing to do with here > providers is heavily linked in with the ecosystem, but yes I have been discussing this in provider.s I've never seen it mentioned by anyone but you

im making a fool of myself trying to help out with XMPP outreach, and then all I am getting in return is pissy comments.

honestly because I have hosted for some many years I honestly didn't know how bad using public providers was

im sorry for those who try their best to provide a good service, and likely do provide a good service, but some bad apples in the bunch have made my efforts to onboard difficult to completely worthless.

Yeah I never send anyone at the public provider lists for this exact reason

> Yeah I never send anyone at the public provider lists for this exact reason so yeah lets use endorse one or two xmpp servers, become centralised like matrix.org ↺

and lose any benefit of a federated protocol

amazing idea!

fuck this I am going to go calm down.

not sure where you saw anyone suggest that

I'm just agreeing with you 😛

i wont shill for that list either. But it is a good starting point for discovery. Ideally the damn user click on the linked website, read their privacy policy and terms, and check their uptime statuses

I only send people to snikket.org

> i wont shill for that list either. But it is a good starting point for discovery. Ideally the damn user click on the linked website, read their privacy policy and terms, and check their uptime statuses obviously normies do NOT do that. So for temporary measures how about you all put a warning banner saying: "this site only tests for compatibility with specs and does NOT correlate with a good time" ↺

> i wont shill for that list either. But it is a good starting point for discovery. Ideally the damn user click on the linked website, read their privacy policy and terms, and check their uptime statuses the original point of that list was to provide a API for client integration so that people would never have to visit any website. ↺

which is a bad idea, but that discussion has been done to death 🤷

apologies for losing my cool, stressful day.

I will have a think about what could solve this issue over the next week or two

is providers. accepting discussion on how to contribute, and where can i find it?

> Note: I am not against self hosting, I am strongly supportive of it, but if you do not invest the money into the right gear to have a somewhat stable provider, please keep it to personal/friend use, and do not open it up to others. wait wait ... did u see the domain? it's dot ar bro, investing in proper hardware sometimes means just solving with what u have at hand... said that ... it is a federated service and some of your users may use one of our MUCs so... it worth the time to write here just in case some of your users stumble with one of our hiccups ↺

>> ive been self hosting from home for like 2~3 years so far i havent found a VPS that would be worth switching to > based.pt, there is a hidden benefit to cloud which people often overlook. > > It is cheaper for you to host a single server, with good specs sure. > > But redundancy, what happens if that server breaks, or you lose a disk? > > In datacentres the vps can be brought up on another host, or is replicated, so while you are running one single server, a vps you are paying for could have many physical servers it is located on for redundancy. Not to mention, data loss is a big issue when self hosting, as backups are expensive. > > Theres also the issue of electricity, which is usually the biggest cost for hosting (after internet access) i only keep 2 backups ↺

honestly the benefit is ddos imunity

ddos immunity? bullshit

backups expensive? how much is a thumb drive?

reduncancy: the I in RAID stands for Inexpensive

hosting in ~the cloud~ somebody else's server doesn't eliminate the need for backups