Summits, Conferences and Meetups workgroup - 2019-11-05

Hi team. Later today, we have a scheduled meeting. As of yet, there is no agenda. Please offer up your agenda items.

We have a quick one for CCC I think, we'd like to get something to hang the flag, some kind of support.

There's still a few conferences happening before the end of the year. Just to keep the team up-to-date, I'll be in Toulouse for the Capitole du Libre mid-november with JabberFR, and then POSS (Paris) with Nÿco (if that's still on). And then CCC

Another agenda item: We've been talking with daniel about doing our own conference. We wanted to do some trial making an XMPP track at FrosCon or sth. Would there be anybody coming, can we start looking around. (I haven't discussed this specific item with daniel, just thought about it)

Nÿco, did say he wanted to have an XMPP track at POSS as well iirc? Nÿco if you can chime in

chime

let's add this to trello

I sadly have a pretty packed afternoon. If one meeting runs over, I might not make the start of the meeting. I'll try to at least lurk

What time is the meeting again?

4pm

Yes

hmm, I should have been smarter when deciding of a time. I didn't specify the timezone.

We're all in europe though right?

Yes we are all in the same time zone

That is, 4 CET

I know fiaxh mentioned something like having the same tweet format for each sprint (back when we did the one in sweden), that can be another agenda item. I've asked her to join

We don't have a "sprint" planned for some time so this can wait

Depends on whether or not congress should be marketed / labeled as sprint

Since there is potentially a lot of coding going on that might not be a bad idea

Right. I guess we can discuss tweets in general at some point? How should that be handled

pep.: are you giving the state of the xmpp community talk at one of the conferences?

no I missed the deadline for toulouse :(

Yeah that would make sense

I've created xmpp:36c3@chat.cluxia.eu?join, and I wanted to have a converse instance ready to welcome people, that we could advertize during the conference

(I currently do have a converse instance, but maybe that can be reworked a bit)

Yes please do the anon login thing. I wanted that for last year but never got around to ✏

hmm, there's quite some stuff in the agenda now.

good. 🙂

Also maybe we need a "how to handle the board" item :p

It's empty atm

I am so hoping that you're referring to the Board of Directors, and not some Trello board.

I would some much like to know how to handle the Board of Directors 😃

hehe

I am talking about the trello board. I'm giving it a shot now, that should be enough for our little use

pep. would you mind changing the color of this Trello board? The color appears to be used in the favicon, and as it's grey, it looks to me as if I have an inactive/disabled browser tab, which already confused my three times.

which says a lot about me, but hey 🙂

let me find where to do that

It's blue now

So much better, thanks 😃

(it's the little joys, right?)

:)

I arbitrarily set 30mn for the meeting. Let's see if that's enough ✏

Link Mauve, if we add an item for Toulouse you're happy to pitch about it a bit? Or we can just decide to have a separate discussion around that

Same for c3 actually

Sure.

COM8, hey, I see you have no trello account. Do you want to create one so you can add stuff to the board? (https://trello.com/b/xIiBUwGh/summits-conferences-and-meetups)

Personally I would also add anybody who asks for it btw (not just scam members)

pep: I already have one and joined the trello board. I Think it lists me as @fabianSauter there

"hasn't confirmed their email address"

You weren't in the scam board apparently

Ok 😀

You got the invite?

Yes, and I think I joined it

k

5mn

As feared, meeting overrun.

I'll lurk

Someone else please chair

I can chair

Ok, roll call

Who do we have

half

daniel, COM8, Nÿco ?

yes

ralphm ?

I know daniel is alive I'm talking to him

Ok, so we have until 16:30. We'll see if that's enough for future meetings.

Agenda. Anything else to add?

i'm here

Does SCAM need quorum to vote for things? Is anything even decided already for that?

no. we don‘t need quorum

I'm at a company event all week, sorry.

Ok, I'll try to do minutes afterwards unless somebody wants to do so now. I also filled descriptions of items a bit

There's no defined process that I'm aware off. As a work team, we have little executive power, other than that we have a budget.

There's not much budget thing to discuss anyway

1. Flag pole for confs

We might want to review the Bylaws to be sure, but I don't think there's anything relevant in that for work teams.

daniel, want to show your amazing drawing?

0. I’m here too. o/

1. <-- what's the thing to discuss here? if we want one?

Guus, Yeah. That's the only item that requires budget discussion I guess, but it's probably 10 quid so..

We found that we needed one in the previous conferences we've been to

Always failing to find a place to hang it properly

10 bucks? buy one, don't worry about it

I was discussing with daniel and he was even thinking about building one :p

See the nice drawing: https://awwapp.com/b/u9b1on8g9/#

really nice

That'll be one more piece of equipment SCAM would have I guess.

my other meeting started now

2. Tweet format for events

I guess we're good with 1

lskjflskdjf, that's for you

So, we had the idea that the xsf coult "officially" tweet about sprints and conferences, instead of inconsistently retweeting others. There could be some sort of pattern to the tweets. E.g. for sprints: A very short list of what has been worked on, a link to a blog post explaining it in detail. For conference appearances where the venue is, maybe a short mention of the represented projects and a call yo visit the booth. For sprints and conferences we should have some nice picture (city for sprints, venue for conferences), format it appropriately and add keywords to the picture "Stockholm Sprint 2019".

Sounds good. Consistency is always welcome

And trello eat the links I put in the description..

https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1179671137506209792 this is the stockholm tweet

So the question for SCAM is do we want to go ahead with something similar for future events? If we agree on that we can decide about specifics later (picture format, hashtags, etc.) ?

I'm about to enter another meeting, but on the topic of conference accessories, I think FOSDEM needs some kind of leaflet stand for the table

Everybody is in meetings..

That's what keeps the world turning

MattJ, noted

would agree on a fixed format.

Guus, daniel, Nÿco, anything to add to 1.? Ok with the general idea?

i think we can agree on attempting to do that. lskjflskdjf can you maybe upload gimp/inkscape templates to the wiki? - however i'd rather tweet _something_ than it being blocked by me not being able to gimp or something

I can do the pictures 🙂

Nice :)

Otherwise a tepmlate might be nice to have, in case you're not available or sth

In a second time I guess

Yeah putting together a template sounds like a reasonable idea

We have a wiki page for SCAM related stuff iirc, can I ask you to start something there?

ok. nice tweets are nice. do we want to move on? only 10 mins left

yeah

2. prep for full XMPP tracks

"In the perspective of organizing an XMPP conference at some point in the future, some members are talking about getting "XMPP Tracks" in different conferences to experiment. Do we have enough material to present, enough interest? What can we do to help around this?"

I guess that's a whole meeting in itself

Or even more ✏

I'll skip.

Quick question: What is meant with "XMPP Tracks"?

a full conference just on xmpp and/or a full track at an existing conference just for xmpp

COM8, e.g. a whole room dedicated to XMPP talks for a period of time

In conferences generally there are different "tracks" where you can submit your talks, with different themes

Kind of like we did at FOSDEM in the past.

Ok thanks

FOSDEM has got larger since then, we're unlikely to get an XMPP-only room there

To be reconvened then.

3. Conference friendly webchat

"Gathering ideas around a "Conference friendly webchat" that anybody could use at an event. The idea is that it's "just a link" that can be dropped in slides or on flyers etc., specifically for the event (room with all people from that event), anonymous access, but encouraging account creation. This can easily be based off conversejs, but there are some changes that needs to be made (and probably upstreamed)"

That's the description I wrote

We do have Toulouse coming up next week, I don't think that'll be done by then

Maybe we can aim for CCC

I'll skip as well so we can address 4. (toulouse)

I can try to do something for Toulouse, if you have some guideline about the specifics.

4. Capitole du Libre prep

Link Mauve, I wanted to talk about specifics yeah, gathering ideas

I do have a few already that we can discuss

Link Mauve, I'll leave 4. to you

(to explain it here)

So, I’d like to have flyers and stickers and demos to show around. For stickers we’re packed, for demos we can always do them live showcasing a few clients (I demo’d Movim, Dino and Jitsi Meet at this event two years ago), but for flyers we only have Arc’s server install guide 2017.

I’d like to create a flyer more targetting end users, such as telling them to pick a client based on their platform, then pick a server, then join a MUC or something.

So more ideas for flyers? And then budget to make them?

But I have no clue how to design and print such a flyer.

hmm and design, right

And I was hoping SCAM could help with that. :)

I have no clue about design, but I can research where to make them and get the budget for it

Zatalyz from Khaganat and Framasoft already told me where she gets hers printed.

Link Mauve, we can draft something together for end users just like you mention. Maybe other people would have ideas.

oh ok

That's something I'd like to hire professionals for tbh.

Drafting marketing material

For Toulouse it's probably too late (10 days)

Yes, this is something that has to be perfect

There is no such thing as perfect :p

;-)

Ok anyway, this is not getting anywhere..

Action for SCAM before closing, I guess, find somebody that can do design/markety stuff

Yes please. :)

Ok, AOB?

Regarding 1.

k

Do we already have the flag?

We do

it's with Link Mauve atm

Yes, it’s right next to me.

We're trying to move it from conference to conference

ok, else I would have suggested to buy something like this

Might be good to have another one

https://www.lansche-fahnen.de/beachflags

we have another one

ah

Ok let's close the meeting for now.

Thanks all. :)

daniel, who has it?

Guus does

Guus, do you use it?

So we'll just talk about c3 in some other round? Because we should start having a plan about what to do soonish...

sorry, didn't read back ,still in my meating?

I do what/

you have the other flag

and pep. was asking if you use it

but we probably don’t need to put that one into circulation; we are doing fine with one, no?

lskjflskdjf, we didn't indeed. We can talk about it here with interested parties

daniel, dunno, for the amount of conferences we go to atm, it's fine, sure

lskjflskdjf, what do you mean with 'what we do'? - how we present ourselves?

Also because I move often :/

daniel, sessions at c3 etc.

scam@xmpp.org works right?

i generally like to come up with coherent 'booth strategy'

I can send stuff there

daniel, well. The meetups the last two years were rather chaotic. The first one turned into 5 people discussing the protocol and the rest looking puzzled. The second year was more user friendly but lacked moderation. It would be good to organize it more in advance this year.

not sure if that really applies to congress

I guess I'll send to members

lskjflskdjf mhh. ok i wasn’t there the first year. and the second year I tried to do some moderation (and i like to think that i did 'ok'?)

however yes i would like to have two meetings this year; one for server operators

and one for users

I think last year we failed setting a target for the meeting

We talked about setting up servers and their configuration, and then different clients and missing features, and also protocol stuff

we could actually have short talks, maybe. some basics about the protocol, followed by some discussions, a short talk about what happened in 2019, followed by some discussions. Those are just ideas, of course. One could also instead have some server intro followed by server-operator discussions.

ok. me personally i’m fine with a lack of agenda. to me those meetings don’t have to be super productive

daniel, I think it's be good to set a target, so that people interested only in user stuff can join only the user discussions, etc.

it wouldn't be about being productive - it woud be about actually talking with a relevant user group about xmpp and informing them.

that

may i suggest tha if someone is in the mood to give a talk to do that at one of the proper stages?

and then use the meeting for discussions

If you have suggestions for talks I can give it a try

I'm not especially a good speaker though

but isn't the normal talk deadline over already?

That's for the c3 tracks no?

~proper stages~ inofficial stages

about:freedom also organize sessions

i was thinking primarily of that one

(as well as others)

if you want to give a 'what happened in 2019' talk they will probably accept it

but giving a talk just prior to a discussion round would provide material and guidance for the discussion

Apologies for not paying attention. Yes, I do have a flag - I'm happy to send it to anyone that needs it.

my thinking is that if you come to the xmpp meeting you are already a fan; you might have a question or just want to listen in to nerds arguing about things, or just to meet people (at least that's why i go to other meetings ). if i go to the xmpp or fdroid or what ever meeting i don’t need an introduction to xmpp or fdroid

you won’t have people who just pass by at those meetings

i think a proper talk at one of those stages is better suited for that

printing-wise, my father actually is a printer that can print up to A0, I think.

Guus, and he'd bring that to Toulouse? or c3? :p

i see meetings as 'ask an xmpp developer everything' kinda thing.

No, that's another thing: reproduced material is quite heavy and thus expensive to ship. You're far better of printing it locally.

We started creating a repository of digital source material on the wiki a long time ago - it could be beneficial to resurrect that for this purpose.

Guus, yeah that's exactly what Link Mauve dug into

But we can probably get more material

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/SCAM/Material

we can definitely add to that.

that being said i'm not going to stop you if you want to bring some more order to those meetings

Guus, tbh the only flyer available seem a bit old-fashioned design wise. I'd like to have people who know how to create these things actually do them

pep. I'm all for it!

I, however, do not know anyone capable

I mean paying people to do this

ah, right. I'm not against that, but I'm worried that this will very quickly ramp up costs.

We do not use the money for anything else than the dinner atm (that I'm happy to get rid of). I'm sure we can find the money

and we can reuse the same marketing campaings for multiple events

"the dinner" ?

The dinner. ✏

You mean XSF funds?

sure

and the XSF Summit Dinner?

Yes

Anyway, that's just an example

right, I was thinking in context of our 1000 yearly budget for SCAM

but sure, we could take this to board and get the budget like that

We can ask for more money if we need more

Also people think that should go in comm's budget (which is inexistent?).. I'm annoyed because this is never clear to me

As far as I know, the only workteam that has a budget is SCAM. All other workteams have to coordinate with board for any expense.

But we can ask around anyway if somebody knows somebody who would do that for us, and I'm sure expenses will get sorted out

I've explicitly asked for a SCAM budget for 'the little stuff' (reproduction of swag, folders, etc), to not have to have board rubberstamp it each time.

I'd suggest we come up with a concrete proposal, with a quote from a designer, and take that to board

Ok, so we'd need an ACK from the board for that

Yeah get a quote run it by board

It's probably not impossible to get it through board

I need to go take care of my kids soon - is there anything you'd want me to comment on now?

If it is reasonable and we have the money

Yeah, I'm not seeing an issue there either

It's not that we cannot spend more money than the budget - we have a budget to prevent wasting time with small expenses.

Yeah. Also knowing how expensive designers are (or more specifically how long those things take) it's not going to be a small expense

Also you need to copy write that stuff

Which is not a designers task

right, that's probably the most challenging part

What do you mean by "copyright that stuff"?

you need to provide the texts

the texts? What to put on the flyer?

Yes

Ah, "copy write"

You probably wouldn't provide the exact texts. the marketing agency writes better texts. you just provide the information.

lskjflskdjf: it's probably still a different person's job?

Aka another person to hire

It doesn't have to be something really expensive. I'd be happy with just having one designer help us tbh. It's already better than a bunch of clueless developers

We can ask on opensomething, don't remember the website.

That we used for the CS things. And be more reactive this time

daniel, depends on what kind of service you hire the people for. There are agencies who do the full package: They evaluate what kind of information would make sense to be on the flyer, write the texts and deign it. but you can also just get people for doing parts of that and try to more or less do the rest yourself.

lskjflskdjf: sure. I'm unsure if we have a budget for a full service agency. And by unsure I mean unsure because I don't know how much that is and I also don't know how much money the xsf has

It _sounds_ expensive tho

And the xsf _sounds_ broke

That probably depends on how re-usable the content is (things tend to outdate quickly)

I need to go. ttyl

Right, we still don't have these financial records public..

But I'm sure we can pay a single designer, we don't have to go through an agency. We won't get broke with that, if it's only a few hours

Is the scam list moderated or sth?

Link Mauve, are you going to print the server setup flyers for Toulouse?

Maybe we can already get a leaflet stand (or is that too good for Toulouse and it's better improvised? :p)

We’ll still have some English 2017 server guide from Arc.

Maybe we could translate it and print some more?

Yeah that'd be nice

Maybe also change that color..