Summits, Conferences and Meetups workgroup - 2019-11-05

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  37. Guus Hi team. Later today, we have a scheduled meeting. As of yet, there is no agenda. Please offer up your agenda items.
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  44. pep. We have a quick one for CCC I think, we'd like to get something to hang the flag, some kind of support.
  45. pep. There's still a few conferences happening before the end of the year. Just to keep the team up-to-date, I'll be in Toulouse for the Capitole du Libre mid-november with JabberFR, and then POSS (Paris) with Nÿco (if that's still on). And then CCC
  46. daniel has joined
  47. pep. Another agenda item: We've been talking with daniel about doing our own conference. We wanted to do some trial making an XMPP track at FrosCon or sth. Would there be anybody coming, can we start looking around. (I haven't discussed this specific item with daniel, just thought about it)
  48. pep. Nÿco, did say he wanted to have an XMPP track at POSS as well iirc? Nÿco if you can chime in
  49. Nÿco chime
  50. pep. let's add this to trello
  51. Guus I sadly have a pretty packed afternoon. If one meeting runs over, I might not make the start of the meeting. I'll try to at least lurk
  52. daniel What time is the meeting again?
  53. daniel 4pm
  54. Guus Yes
  55. pep. hmm, I should have been smarter when deciding of a time. I didn't specify the timezone.
  56. pep. We're all in europe though right?
  57. daniel Yes we are all in the same time zone
  58. pep. That is, 4 CET
  59. pep. I know fiaxh mentioned something like having the same tweet format for each sprint (back when we did the one in sweden), that can be another agenda item. I've asked her to join
  60. pep. We don't have a "sprint" planned for some time so this can wait
  61. daniel Depends on whether or not congress should be marketed / labeled as sprint
  62. daniel Since there is potentially a lot of coding going on that might not be a bad idea
  63. pep. Right. I guess we can discuss tweets in general at some point? How should that be handled
  64. daniel pep.: are you giving the state of the xmpp community talk at one of the conferences?
  65. pep. no I missed the deadline for toulouse :(
  66. daniel is thinking about submitting that to the freedom cluster stage
  67. pep. Yeah that would make sense
  68. pep. I've created xmpp:36c3@chat.cluxia.eu?join, and I wanted to have a converse instance ready to welcome people, that we could advertize during the conference
  69. pep. (I currently do have a converse instance, but maybe that can be reworked a bit)
  70. daniel Yes please do the anon login thing. I wanted that got last year but never got around to
  71. daniel Yes please do the anon login thing. I wanted that for last year but never got around to
  72. pep. hmm, there's quite some stuff in the agenda now.
  73. Guus good. 🙂
  74. pep. Also maybe we need a "how to handle the board" item :p
  75. pep. It's empty atm
  76. pep. looks at other boards
  77. Guus I am so hoping that you're referring to the Board of Directors, and not some Trello board.
  78. Guus I would some much like to know how to handle the Board of Directors 😃
  79. pep. hehe
  80. pep. I am talking about the trello board. I'm giving it a shot now, that should be enough for our little use
  81. Guus pep. would you mind changing the color of this Trello board? The color appears to be used in the favicon, and as it's grey, it looks to me as if I have an inactive/disabled browser tab, which already confused my three times.
  82. Guus which says a lot about me, but hey 🙂
  83. pep. let me find where to do that
  84. pep. It's blue now
  85. Guus So much better, thanks 😃
  86. Guus (it's the little joys, right?)
  87. pep. :)
  88. pep. I arbitrary set 30mn for the meeting. Let's see if that's enough
  89. pep. I arbitrarily set 30mn for the meeting. Let's see if that's enough
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  92. pep. Link Mauve, if we add an item for Toulouse you're happy to pitch about it a bit? Or we can just decide to have a separate discussion around that
  93. pep. Same for c3 actually
  94. Link Mauve Sure.
  95. pep. COM8, hey, I see you have no trello account. Do you want to create one so you can add stuff to the board? (https://trello.com/b/xIiBUwGh/summits-conferences-and-meetups)
  96. pep. Personally I would also add anybody who asks for it btw (not just scam members)
  97. COM8 pep: I already have one and joined the trello board. I Think it lists me as @fabianSauter there
  98. pep. "hasn't confirmed their email address"
  99. pep. You weren't in the scam board apparently
  100. COM8 Ok 😀
  101. pep. You got the invite?
  102. COM8 Yes, and I think I joined it
  103. pep. k
  104. pep. 5mn
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  106. Guus As feared, meeting overrun.
  107. Guus I'll lurk
  108. Guus Someone else please chair
  109. COM8 has joined
  110. pep. I can chair
  111. pep. Ok, roll call
  112. pep. Who do we have
  113. Guus half
  114. pep. daniel, COM8, Nÿco ?
  115. COM8 yes
  116. Guus ralphm ?
  117. pep. I know daniel is alive I'm talking to him
  118. pep. Ok, so we have until 16:30. We'll see if that's enough for future meetings.
  119. pep. Agenda. Anything else to add?
  120. daniel i'm here
  121. pep. Does SCAM need quorum to vote for things? Is anything even decided already for that?
  122. daniel no. we don‘t need quorum
  123. ralphm I'm at a company event all week, sorry.
  124. pep. Ok, I'll try to do minutes afterwards unless somebody wants to do so now. I also filled descriptions of items a bit
  125. Guus There's no defined process that I'm aware off. As a work team, we have little executive power, other than that we have a budget.
  126. pep. There's not much budget thing to discuss anyway
  127. pep. 1. Flag pole for confs
  128. Guus We might want to review the Bylaws to be sure, but I don't think there's anything relevant in that for work teams.
  129. pep. daniel, want to show your amazing drawing?
  130. Link Mauve 0. I’m here too. o/
  131. Guus 1. <-- what's the thing to discuss here? if we want one?
  132. pep. Guus, Yeah. That's the only item that requires budget discussion I guess, but it's probably 10 quid so..
  133. pep. We found that we needed one in the previous conferences we've been to
  134. pep. Always failing to find a place to hang it properly
  135. Guus 10 bucks? buy one, don't worry about it
  136. pep. I was discussing with daniel and he was even thinking about building one :p
  137. pep. See the nice drawing: https://awwapp.com/b/u9b1on8g9/#
  138. COM8 really nice
  139. pep. That'll be one more piece of equipment SCAM would have I guess.
  140. Guus my other meeting started now
  141. pep. 2. Tweet format for events
  142. pep. I guess we're good with 1
  143. pep. lskjflskdjf, that's for you
  144. lskjflskdjf So, we had the idea that the xsf coult "officially" tweet about sprints and conferences, instead of inconsistently retweeting others. There could be some sort of pattern to the tweets. E.g. for sprints: A very short list of what has been worked on, a link to a blog post explaining it in detail. For conference appearances where the venue is, maybe a short mention of the represented projects and a call yo visit the booth. For sprints and conferences we should have some nice picture (city for sprints, venue for conferences), format it appropriately and add keywords to the picture "Stockholm Sprint 2019".
  145. COM8 Sounds good. Consistency is always welcome
  146. pep. And trello eat the links I put in the description..
  147. pep. https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1179671137506209792 this is the stockholm tweet
  148. pep. So the question for SCAM is do we want to go ahead with something similar for future events? If we agree on that we can decide about specifics later (picture format, hashtags, etc.) ?
  149. MattJ I'm about to enter another meeting, but on the topic of conference accessories, I think FOSDEM needs some kind of leaflet stand for the table
  150. pep. Everybody is in meetings..
  151. MattJ That's what keeps the world turning
  152. pep. MattJ, noted
  153. COM8 would agree on a fixed format.
  154. pep. Guus, daniel, Nÿco, anything to add to 1.? Ok with the general idea?
  155. daniel i think we can agree on attempting to do that. lskjflskdjf can you maybe upload gimp/inkscape templates to the wiki? - however i'd rather tweet _something_ than it being blocked by me not being able to gimp or something
  156. lskjflskdjf I can do the pictures 🙂
  157. pep. Nice :)
  158. pep. Otherwise a tepmlate might be nice to have, in case you're not available or sth
  159. pep. In a second time I guess
  160. lskjflskdjf Yeah putting together a template sounds like a reasonable idea
  161. pep. We have a wiki page for SCAM related stuff iirc, can I ask you to start something there?
  162. daniel ok. nice tweets are nice. do we want to move on? only 10 mins left
  163. pep. yeah
  164. pep. 2. prep for full XMPP tracks
  165. pep. "In the perspective of organizing an XMPP conference at some point in the future, some members are talking about getting "XMPP Tracks" in different conferences to experiment. Do we have enough material to present, enough interest? What can we do to help around this?"
  166. pep. I guess that's a whole meeting in itself
  167. pep. Even more
  168. pep. Or even more
  169. pep. I'll skip.
  170. COM8 Quick question: What is meant with "XMPP Tracks"?
  171. daniel a full conference just on xmpp and/or a full track at an existing conference just for xmpp
  172. MattJ COM8, e.g. a whole room dedicated to XMPP talks for a period of time
  173. pep. In conferences generally there are different "tracks" where you can submit your talks, with different themes
  174. Link Mauve Kind of like we did at FOSDEM in the past.
  175. COM8 Ok thanks
  176. MattJ FOSDEM has got larger since then, we're unlikely to get an XMPP-only room there
  177. pep. To be reconvened then.
  178. pep. 3. Conference friendly webchat
  179. pep. "Gathering ideas around a "Conference friendly webchat" that anybody could use at an event. The idea is that it's "just a link" that can be dropped in slides or on flyers etc., specifically for the event (room with all people from that event), anonymous access, but encouraging account creation. This can easily be based off conversejs, but there are some changes that needs to be made (and probably upstreamed)"
  180. pep. That's the description I wrote
  181. pep. We do have Toulouse coming up next week, I don't think that'll be done by then
  182. pep. Maybe we can aim for CCC
  183. pep. I'll skip as well so we can address 4. (toulouse)
  184. Link Mauve I can try to do something for Toulouse, if you have some guideline about the specifics.
  185. pep. 4. Capitole du Libre prep
  186. pep. Link Mauve, I wanted to talk about specifics yeah, gathering ideas
  187. pep. I do have a few already that we can discuss
  188. pep. Link Mauve, I'll leave 4. to you
  189. pep. (to explain it here)
  190. Link Mauve So, I’d like to have flyers and stickers and demos to show around. For stickers we’re packed, for demos we can always do them live showcasing a few clients (I demo’d Movim, Dino and Jitsi Meet at this event two years ago), but for flyers we only have Arc’s server install guide 2017.
  191. Link Mauve I’d like to create a flyer more targetting end users, such as telling them to pick a client based on their platform, then pick a server, then join a MUC or something.
  192. pep. So more ideas for flyers? And then budget to make them?
  193. Link Mauve But I have no clue how to design and print such a flyer.
  194. pep. hmm and design, right
  195. Link Mauve And I was hoping SCAM could help with that. :)
  196. pep. I have no clue about design, but I can research where to make them and get the budget for it
  197. Link Mauve Zatalyz from Khaganat and Framasoft already told me where she gets hers printed.
  198. pep. Link Mauve, we can draft something together for end users just like you mention. Maybe other people would have ideas.
  199. pep. oh ok
  200. pep. That's something I'd like to hire professionals for tbh.
  201. pep. Drafting marketing material
  202. pep. For Toulouse it's probably too late (10 days)
  203. COM8 Yes, this is something that has to be perfect
  204. pep. There is no such thing as perfect :p
  205. COM8 ;-)
  206. pep. Ok anyway, this is not getting anywhere..
  207. pep. Action for SCAM before closing, I guess, find somebody that can do design/markety stuff
  208. Link Mauve Yes please. :)
  209. pep. Ok, AOB?
  210. COM8 Regarding 1.
  211. pep. k
  212. COM8 Do we already have the flag?
  213. pep. We do
  214. pep. it's with Link Mauve atm
  215. Link Mauve Yes, it’s right next to me.
  216. pep. We're trying to move it from conference to conference
  217. COM8 ok, else I would have suggested to buy something like this
  218. pep. Might be good to have another one
  219. COM8 https://www.lansche-fahnen.de/beachflags
  220. daniel we have another one
  221. pep. ah
  222. pep. Ok let's close the meeting for now.
  223. Link Mauve Thanks all. :)
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  225. pep. daniel, who has it?
  226. daniel Guus does
  227. pep. Guus, do you use it?
  228. lskjflskdjf So we'll just talk about c3 in some other round? Because we should start having a plan about what to do soonish...
  229. Guus sorry, didn't read back ,still in my meating?
  230. Guus I do what/
  231. daniel you have the other flag
  232. daniel and pep. was asking if you use it
  233. daniel but we probably don’t need to put that one into circulation; we are doing fine with one, no?
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  235. pep. lskjflskdjf, we didn't indeed. We can talk about it here with interested parties
  236. pep. daniel, dunno, for the amount of conferences we go to atm, it's fine, sure
  237. daniel lskjflskdjf, what do you mean with 'what we do'? - how we present ourselves?
  238. pep. Also because I move often :/
  239. pep. daniel, sessions at c3 etc.
  240. pep. scam@xmpp.org works right?
  241. daniel i generally like to come up with coherent 'booth strategy'
  242. pep. I can send stuff there
  243. lskjflskdjf daniel, well. The meetups the last two years were rather chaotic. The first one turned into 5 people discussing the protocol and the rest looking puzzled. The second year was more user friendly but lacked moderation. It would be good to organize it more in advance this year.
  244. daniel not sure if that really applies to congress
  245. pep. I guess I'll send to members
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  247. daniel lskjflskdjf mhh. ok i wasn’t there the first year. and the second year I tried to do some moderation (and i like to think that i did 'ok'?)
  248. daniel however yes i would like to have two meetings this year; one for server operators
  249. daniel and one for users
  250. pep. I think last year we failed setting a target for the meeting
  251. pep. We talked about setting up servers and their configuration, and then different clients and missing features, and also protocol stuff
  252. lskjflskdjf we could actually have short talks, maybe. some basics about the protocol, followed by some discussions, a short talk about what happened in 2019, followed by some discussions. Those are just ideas, of course. One could also instead have some server intro followed by server-operator discussions.
  253. daniel ok. me personally i’m fine with a lack of agenda. to me those meetings don’t have to be super productive
  254. pep. daniel, I think it's be good to set a target, so that people interested only in user stuff can join only the user discussions, etc.
  255. lskjflskdjf it wouldn't be about being productive - it woud be about actually talking with a relevant user group about xmpp and informing them.
  256. pep. that
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  259. daniel may i suggest tha if someone is in the mood to give a talk to do that at one of the proper stages?
  260. daniel and then use the meeting for discussions
  261. pep. If you have suggestions for talks I can give it a try
  262. pep. I'm not especially a good speaker though
  263. lskjflskdjf but isn't the normal talk deadline over already?
  264. pep. That's for the c3 tracks no?
  265. daniel ~proper stages~ inofficial stages
  266. pep. about:freedom also organize sessions
  267. daniel i was thinking primarily of that one
  268. pep. (as well as others)
  269. daniel if you want to give a 'what happened in 2019' talk they will probably accept it
  270. lskjflskdjf but giving a talk just prior to a discussion round would provide material and guidance for the discussion
  271. Guus Apologies for not paying attention. Yes, I do have a flag - I'm happy to send it to anyone that needs it.
  272. daniel my thinking is that if you come to the xmpp meeting you are already a fan; you might have a question or just want to listen in to nerds arguing about things, or just to meet people (at least that's why i go to other meetings ). if i go to the xmpp or fdroid or what ever meeting i don’t need an introduction to xmpp or fdroid
  273. daniel you won’t have people who just pass by at those meetings
  274. daniel i think a proper talk at one of those stages is better suited for that
  275. Guus printing-wise, my father actually is a printer that can print up to A0, I think.
  276. pep. Guus, and he'd bring that to Toulouse? or c3? :p
  277. daniel i see meetings as 'ask an xmpp developer everything' kinda thing.
  278. Guus No, that's another thing: reproduced material is quite heavy and thus expensive to ship. You're far better of printing it locally.
  279. Guus We started creating a repository of digital source material on the wiki a long time ago - it could be beneficial to resurrect that for this purpose.
  280. pep. Guus, yeah that's exactly what Link Mauve dug into
  281. pep. But we can probably get more material
  282. Guus https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/SCAM/Material
  283. Guus we can definitely add to that.
  284. daniel that being said i'm not going to stop you if you want to bring some more order to those meetings
  285. pep. Guus, tbh the only flyer available seem a bit old-fashioned design wise. I'd like to have people who know how to create these things actually do them
  286. Guus pep. I'm all for it!
  287. Guus I, however, do not know anyone capable
  288. pep. I mean paying people to do this
  289. Guus ah, right. I'm not against that, but I'm worried that this will very quickly ramp up costs.
  290. pep. We do not use the money for anything else than the dinner atm (that I'm happy to get rid of). I'm sure we can find the money
  291. pep. and we can reuse the same marketing campaings for multiple events
  292. Guus "the dinner" ?
  293. pep. the dinner.
  294. pep. The dinner.
  295. Guus You mean XSF funds?
  296. pep. sure
  297. Guus and the XSF Summit Dinner?
  298. pep. Yes
  299. pep. Anyway, that's just an example
  300. Guus right, I was thinking in context of our 1000 yearly budget for SCAM
  301. Guus but sure, we could take this to board and get the budget like that
  302. pep. We can ask for more money if we need more
  303. pep. Also people think that should go in comm's budget (which is inexistent?).. I'm annoyed because this is never clear to me
  304. Guus As far as I know, the only workteam that has a budget is SCAM. All other workteams have to coordinate with board for any expense.
  305. pep. But we can ask around anyway if somebody knows somebody who would do that for us, and I'm sure expenses will get sorted out
  306. Guus I've explicitly asked for a SCAM budget for 'the little stuff' (reproduction of swag, folders, etc), to not have to have board rubberstamp it each time.
  307. Guus I'd suggest we come up with a concrete proposal, with a quote from a designer, and take that to board
  308. pep. Ok, so we'd need an ACK from the board for that
  309. daniel Yeah get a quote run it by board
  310. daniel It's probably not impossible to get it through board
  311. Guus I need to go take care of my kids soon - is there anything you'd want me to comment on now?
  312. daniel If it is reasonable and we have the money
  313. Guus Yeah, I'm not seeing an issue there either
  314. Guus It's not that we cannot spend more money than the budget - we have a budget to prevent wasting time with small expenses.
  315. daniel Yeah. Also knowing how expensive designers are (or more specifically how long those things take) it's not going to be a small expense
  316. daniel Also you need to copy write that stuff
  317. daniel Which is not a designers task
  318. Guus right, that's probably the most challenging part
  319. pep. What do you mean by "copyright that stuff"?
  320. Guus you need to provide the texts
  321. pep. the texts? What to put on the flyer?
  322. daniel Yes
  323. pep. Ah, "copy write"
  324. lskjflskdjf You probably wouldn't provide the exact texts. the marketing agency writes better texts. you just provide the information.
  325. daniel lskjflskdjf: it's probably still a different person's job?
  326. daniel Aka another person to hire
  327. pep. It doesn't have to be something really expensive. I'd be happy with just having one designer help us tbh. It's already better than a bunch of clueless developers
  328. pep. We can ask on opensomething, don't remember the website.
  329. pep. That we used for the CS things. And be more reactive this time
  330. lskjflskdjf daniel, depends on what kind of service you hire the people for. There are agencies who do the full package: They evaluate what kind of information would make sense to be on the flyer, write the texts and deign it. but you can also just get people for doing parts of that and try to more or less do the rest yourself.
  331. daniel lskjflskdjf: sure. I'm unsure if we have a budget for a full service agency. And by unsure I mean unsure because I don't know how much that is and I also don't know how much money the xsf has
  332. daniel It _sounds_ expensive tho
  333. daniel And the xsf _sounds_ broke
  334. Guus That probably depends on how re-usable the content is (things tend to outdate quickly)
  335. Guus I need to go. ttyl
  336. pep. Right, we still don't have these financial records public..
  337. pep. But I'm sure we can pay a single designer, we don't have to go through an agency. We won't get broke with that, if it's only a few hours
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  342. pep. Is the scam list moderated or sth?
  343. pep. Link Mauve, are you going to print the server setup flyers for Toulouse?
  344. pep. Maybe we can already get a leaflet stand (or is that too good for Toulouse and it's better improvised? :p)
  345. Link Mauve We’ll still have some English 2017 server guide from Arc.
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  348. Link Mauve Maybe we could translate it and print some more?
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  353. pep. Yeah that'd be nice
  354. pep. Maybe also change that color..
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