Summits, Conferences and Meetups workgroup - 2019-11-05

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  37. Guus

    Hi team. Later today, we have a scheduled meeting. As of yet, there is no agenda. Please offer up your agenda items.

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  44. pep.

    We have a quick one for CCC I think, we'd like to get something to hang the flag, some kind of support.

  45. pep.

    There's still a few conferences happening before the end of the year. Just to keep the team up-to-date, I'll be in Toulouse for the Capitole du Libre mid-november with JabberFR, and then POSS (Paris) with N每co (if that's still on). And then CCC

  46. daniel has joined

  47. pep.

    Another agenda item: We've been talking with daniel about doing our own conference. We wanted to do some trial making an XMPP track at FrosCon or sth. Would there be anybody coming, can we start looking around. (I haven't discussed this specific item with daniel, just thought about it)

  48. pep.

    N每co, did say he wanted to have an XMPP track at POSS as well iirc? N每co if you can chime in

  49. N每co


  50. pep.

    let's add this to trello

  51. Guus

    I sadly have a pretty packed afternoon. If one meeting runs over, I might not make the start of the meeting. I'll try to at least lurk

  52. daniel

    What time is the meeting again?

  53. daniel


  54. Guus


  55. pep.

    hmm, I should have been smarter when deciding of a time. I didn't specify the timezone.

  56. pep.

    We're all in europe though right?

  57. daniel

    Yes we are all in the same time zone

  58. pep.

    That is, 4 CET

  59. pep.

    I know fiaxh mentioned something like having the same tweet format for each sprint (back when we did the one in sweden), that can be another agenda item. I've asked her to join

  60. pep.

    We don't have a "sprint" planned for some time so this can wait

  61. daniel

    Depends on whether or not congress should be marketed / labeled as sprint

  62. daniel

    Since there is potentially a lot of coding going on that might not be a bad idea

  63. pep.

    Right. I guess we can discuss tweets in general at some point? How should that be handled

  64. daniel

    pep.: are you giving the state of the xmpp community talk at one of the conferences?

  65. pep.

    no I missed the deadline for toulouse :(

  66. daniel is thinking about submitting that to the freedom cluster stage

  67. pep.

    Yeah that would make sense

  68. pep.

    I've created, and I wanted to have a converse instance ready to welcome people, that we could advertize during the conference

  69. pep.

    (I currently do have a converse instance, but maybe that can be reworked a bit)

  70. daniel

    Yes please do the anon login thing. I wanted that got last year but never got around to

  71. daniel

    Yes please do the anon login thing. I wanted that for last year but never got around to

  72. pep.

    hmm, there's quite some stuff in the agenda now.

  73. Guus

    good. 馃檪

  74. pep.

    Also maybe we need a "how to handle the board" item :p

  75. pep.

    It's empty atm

  76. pep. looks at other boards

  77. Guus

    I am so hoping that you're referring to the Board of Directors, and not some Trello board.

  78. Guus

    I would some much like to know how to handle the Board of Directors 馃槂

  79. pep.


  80. pep.

    I am talking about the trello board. I'm giving it a shot now, that should be enough for our little use

  81. Guus

    pep. would you mind changing the color of this Trello board? The color appears to be used in the favicon, and as it's grey, it looks to me as if I have an inactive/disabled browser tab, which already confused my three times.

  82. Guus

    which says a lot about me, but hey 馃檪

  83. pep.

    let me find where to do that

  84. pep.

    It's blue now

  85. Guus

    So much better, thanks 馃槂

  86. Guus

    (it's the little joys, right?)

  87. pep.


  88. pep.

    I arbitrary set 30mn for the meeting. Let's see if that's enough

  89. pep.

    I arbitrarily set 30mn for the meeting. Let's see if that's enough

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  92. pep.

    Link Mauve, if we add an item for Toulouse you're happy to pitch about it a bit? Or we can just decide to have a separate discussion around that

  93. pep.

    Same for c3 actually

  94. Link Mauve


  95. pep.

    COM8, hey, I see you have no trello account. Do you want to create one so you can add stuff to the board? (

  96. pep.

    Personally I would also add anybody who asks for it btw (not just scam members)

  97. COM8

    pep: I already have one and joined the trello board. I Think it lists me as @fabianSauter there

  98. pep.

    "hasn't confirmed their email address"

  99. pep.

    You weren't in the scam board apparently

  100. COM8

    Ok 馃榾

  101. pep.

    You got the invite?

  102. COM8

    Yes, and I think I joined it

  103. pep.


  104. pep.


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  106. Guus

    As feared, meeting overrun.

  107. Guus

    I'll lurk

  108. Guus

    Someone else please chair

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  110. pep.

    I can chair

  111. pep.

    Ok, roll call

  112. pep.

    Who do we have

  113. Guus


  114. pep.

    daniel, COM8, N每co ?

  115. COM8


  116. Guus

    ralphm ?

  117. pep.

    I know daniel is alive I'm talking to him

  118. pep.

    Ok, so we have until 16:30. We'll see if that's enough for future meetings.

  119. pep.

    Agenda. Anything else to add?

  120. daniel

    i'm here

  121. pep.

    Does SCAM need quorum to vote for things? Is anything even decided already for that?

  122. daniel

    no. we don鈥榯 need quorum

  123. ralphm

    I'm at a company event all week, sorry.

  124. pep.

    Ok, I'll try to do minutes afterwards unless somebody wants to do so now. I also filled descriptions of items a bit

  125. Guus

    There's no defined process that I'm aware off. As a work team, we have little executive power, other than that we have a budget.

  126. pep.

    There's not much budget thing to discuss anyway

  127. pep.

    1. Flag pole for confs

  128. Guus

    We might want to review the Bylaws to be sure, but I don't think there's anything relevant in that for work teams.

  129. pep.

    daniel, want to show your amazing drawing?

  130. Link Mauve

    0. I鈥檓 here too. o/

  131. Guus

    1. <-- what's the thing to discuss here? if we want one?

  132. pep.

    Guus, Yeah. That's the only item that requires budget discussion I guess, but it's probably 10 quid so..

  133. pep.

    We found that we needed one in the previous conferences we've been to

  134. pep.

    Always failing to find a place to hang it properly

  135. Guus

    10 bucks? buy one, don't worry about it

  136. pep.

    I was discussing with daniel and he was even thinking about building one :p

  137. pep.

    See the nice drawing:

  138. COM8

    really nice

  139. pep.

    That'll be one more piece of equipment SCAM would have I guess.

  140. Guus

    my other meeting started now

  141. pep.

    2. Tweet format for events

  142. pep.

    I guess we're good with 1

  143. pep.

    lskjflskdjf, that's for you

  144. lskjflskdjf

    So, we had the idea that the xsf coult "officially" tweet about sprints and conferences, instead of inconsistently retweeting others. There could be some sort of pattern to the tweets. E.g. for sprints: A very short list of what has been worked on, a link to a blog post explaining it in detail. For conference appearances where the venue is, maybe a short mention of the represented projects and a call yo visit the booth. For sprints and conferences we should have some nice picture (city for sprints, venue for conferences), format it appropriately and add keywords to the picture "Stockholm Sprint 2019".

  145. COM8

    Sounds good. Consistency is always welcome

  146. pep.

    And trello eat the links I put in the description..

  147. pep. this is the stockholm tweet

  148. pep.

    So the question for SCAM is do we want to go ahead with something similar for future events? If we agree on that we can decide about specifics later (picture format, hashtags, etc.) ?

  149. MattJ

    I'm about to enter another meeting, but on the topic of conference accessories, I think FOSDEM needs some kind of leaflet stand for the table

  150. pep.

    Everybody is in meetings..

  151. MattJ

    That's what keeps the world turning

  152. pep.

    MattJ, noted

  153. COM8

    would agree on a fixed format.

  154. pep.

    Guus, daniel, N每co, anything to add to 1.? Ok with the general idea?

  155. daniel

    i think we can agree on attempting to do that. lskjflskdjf can you maybe upload gimp/inkscape templates to the wiki? - however i'd rather tweet _something_ than it being blocked by me not being able to gimp or something

  156. lskjflskdjf

    I can do the pictures 馃檪

  157. pep.

    Nice :)

  158. pep.

    Otherwise a tepmlate might be nice to have, in case you're not available or sth

  159. pep.

    In a second time I guess

  160. lskjflskdjf

    Yeah putting together a template sounds like a reasonable idea

  161. pep.

    We have a wiki page for SCAM related stuff iirc, can I ask you to start something there?

  162. daniel

    ok. nice tweets are nice. do we want to move on? only 10 mins left

  163. pep.


  164. pep.

    2. prep for full XMPP tracks

  165. pep.

    "In the perspective of organizing an XMPP conference at some point in the future, some members are talking about getting "XMPP Tracks" in different conferences to experiment. Do we have enough material to present, enough interest? What can we do to help around this?"

  166. pep.

    I guess that's a whole meeting in itself

  167. pep.

    Even more

  168. pep.

    Or even more

  169. pep.

    I'll skip.

  170. COM8

    Quick question: What is meant with "XMPP Tracks"?

  171. daniel

    a full conference just on xmpp and/or a full track at an existing conference just for xmpp

  172. MattJ

    COM8, e.g. a whole room dedicated to XMPP talks for a period of time

  173. pep.

    In conferences generally there are different "tracks" where you can submit your talks, with different themes

  174. Link Mauve

    Kind of like we did at FOSDEM in the past.

  175. COM8

    Ok thanks

  176. MattJ

    FOSDEM has got larger since then, we're unlikely to get an XMPP-only room there

  177. pep.

    To be reconvened then.

  178. pep.

    3. Conference friendly webchat

  179. pep.

    "Gathering ideas around a "Conference friendly webchat" that anybody could use at an event. The idea is that it's "just a link" that can be dropped in slides or on flyers etc., specifically for the event (room with all people from that event), anonymous access, but encouraging account creation. This can easily be based off conversejs, but there are some changes that needs to be made (and probably upstreamed)"

  180. pep.

    That's the description I wrote

  181. pep.

    We do have Toulouse coming up next week, I don't think that'll be done by then

  182. pep.

    Maybe we can aim for CCC

  183. pep.

    I'll skip as well so we can address 4. (toulouse)

  184. Link Mauve

    I can try to do something for Toulouse, if you have some guideline about the specifics.

  185. pep.

    4. Capitole du Libre prep

  186. pep.

    Link Mauve, I wanted to talk about specifics yeah, gathering ideas

  187. pep.

    I do have a few already that we can discuss

  188. pep.

    Link Mauve, I'll leave 4. to you

  189. pep.

    (to explain it here)

  190. Link Mauve

    So, I鈥檇 like to have flyers and stickers and demos to show around. For stickers we鈥檙e packed, for demos we can always do them live showcasing a few clients (I demo鈥檇 Movim, Dino and Jitsi Meet at this event two years ago), but for flyers we only have Arc鈥檚 server install guide 2017.

  191. Link Mauve

    I鈥檇 like to create a flyer more targetting end users, such as telling them to pick a client based on their platform, then pick a server, then join a MUC or something.

  192. pep.

    So more ideas for flyers? And then budget to make them?

  193. Link Mauve

    But I have no clue how to design and print such a flyer.

  194. pep.

    hmm and design, right

  195. Link Mauve

    And I was hoping SCAM could help with that. :)

  196. pep.

    I have no clue about design, but I can research where to make them and get the budget for it

  197. Link Mauve

    Zatalyz from Khaganat and Framasoft already told me where she gets hers printed.

  198. pep.

    Link Mauve, we can draft something together for end users just like you mention. Maybe other people would have ideas.

  199. pep.

    oh ok

  200. pep.

    That's something I'd like to hire professionals for tbh.

  201. pep.

    Drafting marketing material

  202. pep.

    For Toulouse it's probably too late (10 days)

  203. COM8

    Yes, this is something that has to be perfect

  204. pep.

    There is no such thing as perfect :p

  205. COM8


  206. pep.

    Ok anyway, this is not getting anywhere..

  207. pep.

    Action for SCAM before closing, I guess, find somebody that can do design/markety stuff

  208. Link Mauve

    Yes please. :)

  209. pep.

    Ok, AOB?

  210. COM8

    Regarding 1.

  211. pep.


  212. COM8

    Do we already have the flag?

  213. pep.

    We do

  214. pep.

    it's with Link Mauve atm

  215. Link Mauve

    Yes, it鈥檚 right next to me.

  216. pep.

    We're trying to move it from conference to conference

  217. COM8

    ok, else I would have suggested to buy something like this

  218. pep.

    Might be good to have another one

  219. COM8

  220. daniel

    we have another one

  221. pep.


  222. pep.

    Ok let's close the meeting for now.

  223. Link Mauve

    Thanks all. :)

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  225. pep.

    daniel, who has it?

  226. daniel

    Guus does

  227. pep.

    Guus, do you use it?

  228. lskjflskdjf

    So we'll just talk about c3 in some other round? Because we should start having a plan about what to do soonish...

  229. Guus

    sorry, didn't read back ,still in my meating?

  230. Guus

    I do what/

  231. daniel

    you have the other flag

  232. daniel

    and pep. was asking if you use it

  233. daniel

    but we probably don鈥檛 need to put that one into circulation; we are doing fine with one, no?

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  235. pep.

    lskjflskdjf, we didn't indeed. We can talk about it here with interested parties

  236. pep.

    daniel, dunno, for the amount of conferences we go to atm, it's fine, sure

  237. daniel

    lskjflskdjf, what do you mean with 'what we do'? - how we present ourselves?

  238. pep.

    Also because I move often :/

  239. pep.

    daniel, sessions at c3 etc.

  240. pep. works right?

  241. daniel

    i generally like to come up with coherent 'booth strategy'

  242. pep.

    I can send stuff there

  243. lskjflskdjf

    daniel, well. The meetups the last two years were rather chaotic. The first one turned into 5 people discussing the protocol and the rest looking puzzled. The second year was more user friendly but lacked moderation. It would be good to organize it more in advance this year.

  244. daniel

    not sure if that really applies to congress

  245. pep.

    I guess I'll send to members

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  247. daniel

    lskjflskdjf mhh. ok i wasn鈥檛 there the first year. and the second year I tried to do some moderation (and i like to think that i did 'ok'?)

  248. daniel

    however yes i would like to have two meetings this year; one for server operators

  249. daniel

    and one for users

  250. pep.

    I think last year we failed setting a target for the meeting

  251. pep.

    We talked about setting up servers and their configuration, and then different clients and missing features, and also protocol stuff

  252. lskjflskdjf

    we could actually have short talks, maybe. some basics about the protocol, followed by some discussions, a short talk about what happened in 2019, followed by some discussions. Those are just ideas, of course. One could also instead have some server intro followed by server-operator discussions.

  253. daniel

    ok. me personally i鈥檓 fine with a lack of agenda. to me those meetings don鈥檛 have to be super productive

  254. pep.

    daniel, I think it's be good to set a target, so that people interested only in user stuff can join only the user discussions, etc.

  255. lskjflskdjf

    it wouldn't be about being productive - it woud be about actually talking with a relevant user group about xmpp and informing them.

  256. pep.


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  259. daniel

    may i suggest tha if someone is in the mood to give a talk to do that at one of the proper stages?

  260. daniel

    and then use the meeting for discussions

  261. pep.

    If you have suggestions for talks I can give it a try

  262. pep.

    I'm not especially a good speaker though

  263. lskjflskdjf

    but isn't the normal talk deadline over already?

  264. pep.

    That's for the c3 tracks no?

  265. daniel

    ~proper stages~ inofficial stages

  266. pep.

    about:freedom also organize sessions

  267. daniel

    i was thinking primarily of that one

  268. pep.

    (as well as others)

  269. daniel

    if you want to give a 'what happened in 2019' talk they will probably accept it

  270. lskjflskdjf

    but giving a talk just prior to a discussion round would provide material and guidance for the discussion

  271. Guus

    Apologies for not paying attention. Yes, I do have a flag - I'm happy to send it to anyone that needs it.

  272. daniel

    my thinking is that if you come to the xmpp meeting you are already a fan; you might have a question or just want to listen in to nerds arguing about things, or just to meet people (at least that's why i go to other meetings ). if i go to the xmpp or fdroid or what ever meeting i don鈥檛 need an introduction to xmpp or fdroid

  273. daniel

    you won鈥檛 have people who just pass by at those meetings

  274. daniel

    i think a proper talk at one of those stages is better suited for that

  275. Guus

    printing-wise, my father actually is a printer that can print up to A0, I think.

  276. pep.

    Guus, and he'd bring that to Toulouse? or c3? :p

  277. daniel

    i see meetings as 'ask an xmpp developer everything' kinda thing.

  278. Guus

    No, that's another thing: reproduced material is quite heavy and thus expensive to ship. You're far better of printing it locally.

  279. Guus

    We started creating a repository of digital source material on the wiki a long time ago - it could be beneficial to resurrect that for this purpose.

  280. pep.

    Guus, yeah that's exactly what Link Mauve dug into

  281. pep.

    But we can probably get more material

  282. Guus

  283. Guus

    we can definitely add to that.

  284. daniel

    that being said i'm not going to stop you if you want to bring some more order to those meetings

  285. pep.

    Guus, tbh the only flyer available seem a bit old-fashioned design wise. I'd like to have people who know how to create these things actually do them

  286. Guus

    pep. I'm all for it!

  287. Guus

    I, however, do not know anyone capable

  288. pep.

    I mean paying people to do this

  289. Guus

    ah, right. I'm not against that, but I'm worried that this will very quickly ramp up costs.

  290. pep.

    We do not use the money for anything else than the dinner atm (that I'm happy to get rid of). I'm sure we can find the money

  291. pep.

    and we can reuse the same marketing campaings for multiple events

  292. Guus

    "the dinner" ?

  293. pep.

    the dinner.

  294. pep.

    The dinner.

  295. Guus

    You mean XSF funds?

  296. pep.


  297. Guus

    and the XSF Summit Dinner?

  298. pep.


  299. pep.

    Anyway, that's just an example

  300. Guus

    right, I was thinking in context of our 1000 yearly budget for SCAM

  301. Guus

    but sure, we could take this to board and get the budget like that

  302. pep.

    We can ask for more money if we need more

  303. pep.

    Also people think that should go in comm's budget (which is inexistent?).. I'm annoyed because this is never clear to me

  304. Guus

    As far as I know, the only workteam that has a budget is SCAM. All other workteams have to coordinate with board for any expense.

  305. pep.

    But we can ask around anyway if somebody knows somebody who would do that for us, and I'm sure expenses will get sorted out

  306. Guus

    I've explicitly asked for a SCAM budget for 'the little stuff' (reproduction of swag, folders, etc), to not have to have board rubberstamp it each time.

  307. Guus

    I'd suggest we come up with a concrete proposal, with a quote from a designer, and take that to board

  308. pep.

    Ok, so we'd need an ACK from the board for that

  309. daniel

    Yeah get a quote run it by board

  310. daniel

    It's probably not impossible to get it through board

  311. Guus

    I need to go take care of my kids soon - is there anything you'd want me to comment on now?

  312. daniel

    If it is reasonable and we have the money

  313. Guus

    Yeah, I'm not seeing an issue there either

  314. Guus

    It's not that we cannot spend more money than the budget - we have a budget to prevent wasting time with small expenses.

  315. daniel

    Yeah. Also knowing how expensive designers are (or more specifically how long those things take) it's not going to be a small expense

  316. daniel

    Also you need to copy write that stuff

  317. daniel

    Which is not a designers task

  318. Guus

    right, that's probably the most challenging part

  319. pep.

    What do you mean by "copyright that stuff"?

  320. Guus

    you need to provide the texts

  321. pep.

    the texts? What to put on the flyer?

  322. daniel


  323. pep.

    Ah, "copy write"

  324. lskjflskdjf

    You probably wouldn't provide the exact texts. the marketing agency writes better texts. you just provide the information.

  325. daniel

    lskjflskdjf: it's probably still a different person's job?

  326. daniel

    Aka another person to hire

  327. pep.

    It doesn't have to be something really expensive. I'd be happy with just having one designer help us tbh. It's already better than a bunch of clueless developers

  328. pep.

    We can ask on opensomething, don't remember the website.

  329. pep.

    That we used for the CS things. And be more reactive this time

  330. lskjflskdjf

    daniel, depends on what kind of service you hire the people for. There are agencies who do the full package: They evaluate what kind of information would make sense to be on the flyer, write the texts and deign it. but you can also just get people for doing parts of that and try to more or less do the rest yourself.

  331. daniel

    lskjflskdjf: sure. I'm unsure if we have a budget for a full service agency. And by unsure I mean unsure because I don't know how much that is and I also don't know how much money the xsf has

  332. daniel

    It _sounds_ expensive tho

  333. daniel

    And the xsf _sounds_ broke

  334. Guus

    That probably depends on how re-usable the content is (things tend to outdate quickly)

  335. Guus

    I need to go. ttyl

  336. pep.

    Right, we still don't have these financial records public..

  337. pep.

    But I'm sure we can pay a single designer, we don't have to go through an agency. We won't get broke with that, if it's only a few hours

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  342. pep.

    Is the scam list moderated or sth?

  343. pep.

    Link Mauve, are you going to print the server setup flyers for Toulouse?

  344. pep.

    Maybe we can already get a leaflet stand (or is that too good for Toulouse and it's better improvised? :p)

  345. Link Mauve

    We鈥檒l still have some English 2017 server guide from Arc.

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  348. Link Mauve

    Maybe we could translate it and print some more?

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  353. pep.

    Yeah that'd be nice

  354. pep.

    Maybe also change that color..

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