Summits, Conferences and Meetups workgroup - 2019-12-03
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GuusYes. We discussed it in here a couple of months ago. I've reached out to our contacts at Cisco, who confirmed that we were welcome.
GuusIn the last few years, I usually take point with Ralph in cc. There's no particular reason other than at the time, no-one else stepped up.
GuusI've also started to make arrangements for the hotel. I still need to reach out to the restaurant for the annual dinner.
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Nÿcothx a lot Guus for this, every year
Guusno problem!
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pep.Guus, it'd be great if SCAM was in on this I think
pep.Even if it's not directly in CC (as much as I'd like to)
pep.That is, written somewhere on the wiki, who to contact etc.
pep.somebody told me it wasn't on the summit page
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Guuspep. you're absolutely right - I need to spend the time to write that all down
GuusI've just been called by a service person who's on his way over to my house. Unsure when he'll be here, but chances have it it'll be right when we have our meeting.
pep.Right, that's today
GuusThat's in 12 minutes 😃
pep.I'm currently struggling with my movim setup. PHP is such a pain..
GuusI've only recently dabbled a bit with PHP again
pep.Yeah sorry I still don't have a phone, nothing to remind me :x
GuusLet me share now what I was going to share in the meeting
Guus(it's not to much)
GuusI've reached out to Thon for a quote
GuusThey've actually responded earlier today. I'll compose a message for the mailinglists, inviting people to sign up
Guuson first sight, prices are a bit up from last year - but you can share a room against good discounts.
GuusI have yet to reach out to the restaurant
GuusI'm not expecting an issue there, other than how many exclamation marks ralphm insists need to be on the listing of one particular desert on the menu...
Guuslike clockwork, that guy just showed up
Guusafk!
pep.!
pep.k
pep.It's time
pep.daniel, COM8, Nÿco
pep.Guus is coming back I assume
pep.1. Who is here
pep.I feel overwhelmed by all your answers
pep.If there is an issue with the meeting times, please say so and we should move it.
pep.If it's just that you're not aware of it, please make a note somewhere
pep.adds a note to quickly setup his new phone
danielOne sec
danielSorry I'm here now. My 'one sec' got delayed because I was out of cellphone coverage
pep.:)
pep.Ok, assuming Guus is coming back soon-ish, let's go ahead
pep.2. Agenda
pep.3. 36C3 prep
pep.hmm, before that, anything to add to the agenda?
pep.(I need to work on my meeting skills)
pep.Ok 36C3 prep then.
pep.daniel, you're taking care of the flag pole?
danielI have plans to make one there
pep.We did talk about organizing meetups right, should we take some time afterwards to properly register sessions etc. with interested people?
pep.There is currently a room at xmpp:36c3@chat.cluxia.eu?join, though it may change soon, but for now people are idling there
danielI don't think you can already do that
pep.We can setup some time to talk about it in like 2 weeks maybe.
pep.I'll poke people here and in that other channel afterwards.
pep.Since I wrote this I also obviously would like to sponsor sprints. It doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be all of them, but there are things we'd need to define first. What is a sprint, and on what grounds do we sponsor.
Nÿcosubscription request sent
pep.(Guus ^)
pep.I gave suggestions of a definition and criteria. I'd like to have people's input
NÿcoI believe it would be better to find free venues
also, the people/companies giving the offices could provide some food and beverage when possible
I'd rather spend XSF money on travelling expenses, for example, or printing swag
danielI agree with Nÿco on that
pep.Nÿco, travelling expenses such as?
danielEspecially if you consider how expensive venues are compared to food
Nÿcotrain, bus, maybe car, maybe not plane as usually a bit more exensive?
Nÿcoexpensive
danielThe question was probably for who
pep.That's the thing. I think we should define "sprint" first.
Nÿcoah
Nÿcodevelopment sprints?
pep.I personally don't especially want to encourage bigger ones. My goal is lots of small events all around
pep.For sprints
Nÿcosince Sprints work quite successfully this year, I'd rather "invest" in that
pep.and as written in the task description, "I have personally been using this term to describe "contributor" events, (that is mainly developers, translators, documentarians), of a few days, generally over a weekend, sometimes a bit longer)."
Nÿcoagree fr lots of small sprints everywhere
danielSponsoring individuals to come to sprint is a very slippery slope
Nÿcoyeah...
danielI'm personally fine with limiting it to 'rewards' in form of foods and drinks
Nÿcoalso, we could experiment "meetups", like one night, three talks of 20-40 mn each
that means three speakers, probably need a projector, and a mostly passive audience
we still need to experiment on that
danielIndependently of that we could consider supporting speakers who go to conferences
NÿcoI suggest non-alcoholic beverages
Nÿco"speakers who go to conferences" probably, but it is not about "Sprints", is it?
danielNo
danielThat's why I said independently of that
Nÿcook :)
NÿcoI all in favor of experimenting the XSF sponsoring of Dev Sprints
daniel> I suggest non-alcoholic beverages
I'm OK with that.
danielThe overall amount of alcohol consumed during all the sprints I attended thus far was close to if not zero
pep.lots of caffeine though :p
Nÿcohehehe
Nÿcopizza overload?
danielBut I'm OK with codefying that if people feel the need
pep.Ok I'm trying to come up with a definition
Nÿcolet's try
Nÿcoyou draft something here?
Nÿconow?
Nÿcoor offline later, for review?
pep.hmm, how do we divide this? We can say that that's a direction we agree we want to go, judging by the chat today
pep.For a start
Guusback, reading up...
pep.Then the two other milestones will be coming up with a definition of a sprint we agree on. Then on what grounds we sponsor, and what that sponsor money is for
Nÿcopep. you lead this initiative? we feed back to you?
pep.Yep I'm happy to lead this
Nÿco+1
pep.One sec, let ask properly
Guus"There are no pending requests." on the SCAM mailinglist signup thingy. Did your subscription fail, Nÿco ?
danielOpen to the public / announced in advance / primary focus to improve and develop open source software for the xmpp ecosystems / must be blogged about
danielAlternatively 'must be social mediad about'
NÿcoGuus retried:
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Nÿco"social mediad" :) is it trademarked? Can i use it again? ;-)
pep.I move we go ahead with deciding how to sponsor sprints.
Nÿco+1
pep.+1
daniel+1
pep.I agree to lead the initiative and I'll come back to you on the list with more questions (what I said above, what is a sprint, on what grounds do we sponsor, and what should the money be used for)
Guus+1
pep.(should or should not be used for*)
GuusBut I strongly agree with what daniel said: this is a slippery slope
Nÿco...if we sponsor people
pep.Guus, I'm happy to say something like "we only sponsor N events per quarter / year" or things like "first come first served". We can all discuss that later
Guusalso, from another perspective: there is a upside to not having big amounts of XSF money for this: commercial companies are often willing to pitch in. This happened with the London and Den Haag sprints, for example. Maybe we should also try to help sprint organizers engage with local businesses.
Guusthe added bonus of that is that we might pull in such businesses in the XMPP community
Nÿcowait, sprints are for development
meetups are for pitches and commecial announcements
GuusNote that I'm not against the XSF doing sponsoring at all - but these could complement eachother
pep.Nÿco, eventually everything it useful for marketing and bringing people in..
GuusMany commercial organisations are very happy to host developers
Guusif only to woo them.
pep.Guus, we can do that in parallel
Guusyes, absolutely
danielThis assumes that you know people
Nÿcowell, the host of such sprints will be duly thanked, I hope
danielWhich raises the barrier for sprints
pep.Yeah also. what daniel says
GuusI'm not sure what you mean, Daniel?
pep.I think coming to the XSF asking if you can do a sprint is a good first step
Nÿconot sure either
pep.We're not there yet
pep.With this I mostly want to make noise saying we're doing things for the community
GuusThere often are local developer groups (at least, around here) that already have frequent meetups, often tied in with venues at organizations (think Java User Groups, stuff like that).
pep.And have people know. it's not just isolated events that core members organize
GuusYeah, absolutely
pep.In any case, I see there is not strong disagreement, I guess we can move this to the list
Nÿcooh it all suddenly becomes blurry, I can't follow that conversation anymore...
GuusI'm just saying that if you need to find a venue, calling up a local medium-sized tech company and explain who you are, what you want to do, and ask if they can host it, you'd probably get positive results.
pep.Nÿco, daniel reacted to what Guus said, that the XSF should also encourage people to contact their local companies.
danielI see the sponsoring of food and drinks as a reward for doing something and making buzz on social media
Nÿcook, so it's orthogonal to the current agenda item, right?
danielIt also shows the common developer that the xsf is there for them
pep.Nÿco, yeah it's complementary
Nÿcook
pep.daniel, agreed
danielThere are lots of developers not highly associated with the xsf
Nÿcook, so we can also build a policy on that
pep.No more agenda items.
pep.5. AOB
NÿcoPOSS?
pep.Anything SCAM should decide on for POSS?
pep.Or can we talk about it after the meeting
Nÿcoyeah, who's joining? what do we plan to do?
danielThere are lots of developers not tightly associated with the xsf
Nÿcowhy outside this meeting?
pep.because SCAM people might not all be involved and we might want to take that to interested people, assuming there's not budget or anything else to be agreed on
GuusI'll not be at POSS
pep.daniel, are you going in the end?
Guus(also, I'm running late for the next meeting 🙂 )
danielpep.: no
pep.Nÿco, me, Link Mauve
pep.Nÿco, ok we can talk about it afterwards then :)
pep.Ok, other AOBs?
NÿcoGuus
> I'll not be at POSS
can you say that instead of:
I won't be at POSS
?
pep.Ok, closing then
Nÿcook
pep.Thanks all!
Nÿcothx all!
Guusthanks!
pep.difficult start, but we made somthing out of it
Nÿcothe routine will refine, slowly but surely, if we are consistent and engaged
pep.I'll send minutes soon
GuusI'll not be
I won't be
Both short for "I will not be" I think. But i'm not a native speaker.
Nÿcothx
pep.And back fixing that moving setup..
NÿcoGuus
I had to confirm by email:
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pep.Guus, thanks for organizing things for Brussels btw.
pep.I was curious why the XSF always choose the Thon hotel.
pep.What's special about it? I see it as a really expensive hotel
pep.Not especially close to the venue
Nÿco"le thon, c'est bon"
Nÿco:)
pep.:)
Nÿcoprivate joke for the French: it was a TV ad in the 70s
https://www.ina.fr/video/PUB3212621118
means "thuna, it's good!"
danielYeah that hotel is ridiculously expensive. Even for Brussels. For comparison the thon hotel (same chain) in the city center (equally not close to the venue is 20 or 30% cheaper). And even in the EU quarter I'm paying for a similar 4* business hotel (also some big chain) 30% less or so
danielAlso I stayed at the other Thon hotel for a work trip recently and it didn't feel that special. So assuming the thon EU is similar I don't get it
pep.People had money and were sponsored by companies that didn't care, I guess
pep.I don't think that reflects the current situation
NÿcoI missed the opportunity to join Thon EU, and when I phoned, the lady explained that we start on Wednesday night, when people are still massively working in this area, prices go down on Fridays
also other Thons are cheaper
danielYeah. I mean luckily I'm no longer in a situation where I have to pick the cheapest hotel in the red light district. But a) a 30% difference is still relevant for me b) we have people in our community who still live on a students budget
pep.I live on no budget currently so yeah that'd be cool to be able to join the majority of the people without having to pay a fortune :)
pep.(I mean, no income.)
daniel> also other Thons are cheaper
Yes that's what I said. Same hotel chain. Different (equally bad location for getting to Cisco). Lower price
Nÿcosome communities and companies use large houses (via Airbnb)
danielHaving rented a large airbnb house recently that was a pain that I don't want to repeat. Also having breakfast served to you and stuff. I'm OK with hotels. Doesn't have to be a shoestring budget
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NÿcoI mean they share a large flat
danielBut does it have to be the most expensive one?
Nÿcoagree
danielI mean personally I'm OK with making my own choices (I already booked a few weeks ago). But chosing the most expensive hotel creates a divide between those who bill their companies and those who don't
GuusI'm not sure how we ended up with Thon EU. The biggest benefit is that we know what to expect there, I guess. I'm open to changes, but don't have the time now to look for suitable replacements.
GuusRight now, I'm preparing dinner
GuusI've not entered into an agreement with Thon yet, so if we want to change it, we can.
GuusBut afk now
NÿcoI'll point to you the Thon I've been to, two-three years in a grow
danielNÿco: the one close to Gare du Nord?
Nÿcohuh...
NÿcoThon Hotel Brussels City Centre
Nÿcofound it
NÿcoI don't know
Nÿcofar from Brussel-Zuid
danielNÿco: yes that's the one
Nÿcook
ralphmFrom what I can find, Thon EU was suggested by dwd
ralphmBefore that, we were in the Aloft, relatively close by
danielThat's where I stayed during said business trip recently
Nÿcoso this Thon was fine for me
NÿcoI guess we can still find even cheaper, well let's say less expensive :)
ralphmThe reason why we chose the EU area, was that it is in between the city centre and the ULB, and also relatively easy to get to from outside the city (and back out, for dinner, Cisco)
Nÿcobut Thon City Center is even further than Thon EU from Cisco and FOSDEM
ralphmAnd I think also because it is more likely we can park a van closeby
daniel> I guess we can still find even cheaper, well let's say less expensive :)
Well Brussels is expensive af. So finding something cheaper than _that_ thon is hard if you still want good quality
Nÿcook
Nÿcoyou know better, I have too few experience with Brussels
danielI spent a little too much time researching this...
Nÿco:/
danielMy last work trip paid me a flat fee for travels so I had incentives to look for something cheaper but with decent quality
ralphmOne of the criteria is bacon at breakfast, I hear. :-)
pep.I don't mind getting my own breakfast fwiw, or no breakfast.
ralphmI am sure there are different needs between people
pep.As long as I don't have to spend a fortune to get a place that is essentially to sleep
danielIn any case I'll be publishing where I'll be staying (like I did in recent years) and then people can make their own choices and might join me
Nÿcoa decent internet connection is a much higher priority than bacon, but I don't want to upset our chair :)
Nÿcowith internet connection, you can watch Kevin Bacon movies...
pep.Nÿco, board chair hasn't been voted yet
Nÿcoah
Nÿcofuture-former chair
ralphmBut wait, there's 4G everywhere in Brussels. Don't tell me you rely in hotel WiFi?
ralphmpep. for clarity, until that vote, I remain Chair, so we still have one :-)
ralphmregarding me being upset, I love bacon, but it wasn't my requirement