Summits, Conferences and Meetups workgroup

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07:14:34 Guus Yes. We discussed it in here a couple of months ago. I've reached out to our contacts at Cisco, who confirmed that we were welcome.
07:15:44 Guus In the last few years, I usually take point with Ralph in cc. There's no particular reason other than at the time, no-one else stepped up.
07:20:14 Guus I've also started to make arrangements for the hotel. I still need to reach out to the restaurant for the annual dinner.
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08:00:49 Nÿco thx a lot Guus for this, every year
08:06:20 Guus no problem!
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11:15:59 pep. Guus, it'd be great if SCAM was in on this I think
11:16:20 pep. Even if it's not directly in CC (as much as I'd like to)
11:16:33 pep. That is, written somewhere on the wiki, who to contact etc.
11:16:45 pep. somebody told me it wasn't on the summit page
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14:46:56 Guus pep. you're absolutely right - I need to spend the time to write that all down
14:47:28 Guus I've just been called by a service person who's on his way over to my house. Unsure when he'll be here, but chances have it it'll be right when we have our meeting.
14:47:54 pep. Right, that's today
14:48:07 Guus That's in 12 minutes 😃
14:48:12 pep. I'm currently struggling with my movim setup. PHP is such a pain..
14:48:28 Guus I've only recently dabbled a bit with PHP again
14:48:31 pep. Yeah sorry I still don't have a phone, nothing to remind me :x
14:48:57 Guus https://igniterealtime.org:443/httpfileupload/222c83ef-d3a9-4455-8808-ef3a3dd1f0d7/image.png
14:48:58 pep. (I never had any calendar app on my laptop)
14:48:59 Guus ? 😛
14:49:16 Guus Let me share now what I was going to share in the meeting
14:49:19 Guus (it's not to much)
14:49:25 Guus I've reached out to Thon for a quote
14:49:53 Guus They've actually responded earlier today. I'll compose a message for the mailinglists, inviting people to sign up
14:50:30 Guus on first sight, prices are a bit up from last year - but you can share a room against good discounts.
14:50:39 Guus I have yet to reach out to the restaurant
14:51:25 Guus I'm not expecting an issue there, other than how many exclamation marks ralphm insists need to be on the listing of one particular desert on the menu...
14:59:25 Guus like clockwork, that guy just showed up
14:59:26 Guus afk!
14:59:27 pep. !
14:59:29 pep. k
15:00:50 pep. It's time
15:01:01 pep. daniel, COM8, Nÿco
15:01:06 pep. Guus is coming back I assume
15:01:59 pep. 1. Who is here
15:03:51 pep. I feel overwhelmed by all your answers
15:04:21 pep. If there is an issue with the meeting times, please say so and we should move it.
15:04:43 pep. If it's just that you're not aware of it, please make a note somewhere
15:04:52 pep. adds a note to quickly setup his new phone
15:06:33 daniel One sec
15:07:11 daniel Sorry I'm here now. My 'one sec' got delayed because I was out of cellphone coverage
15:07:18 pep. :)
15:07:43 pep. Ok, assuming Guus is coming back soon-ish, let's go ahead
15:07:48 pep. 2. Agenda
15:08:13 pep. 3. 36C3 prep
15:08:30 pep. hmm, before that, anything to add to the agenda?
15:08:41 pep. (I need to work on my meeting skills)
15:09:04 pep. Ok 36C3 prep then.
15:09:26 pep. daniel, you're taking care of the flag pole?
15:09:48 daniel I have plans to make one there
15:10:03 pep. We did talk about organizing meetups right, should we take some time afterwards to properly register sessions etc. with interested people?
15:10:29 pep. There is currently a room at xmpp:36c3@chat.cluxia.eu?join, though it may change soon, but for now people are idling there
15:10:34 daniel I don't think you can already do that
15:11:23 pep. We can setup some time to talk about it in like 2 weeks maybe.
15:12:26 pep. I'll poke people here and in that other channel afterwards.
15:12:29 pep. Let's move on
15:12:41 pep. 4. Sponsor sprints.
15:12:57 pep. https://trello.com/c/2Q3RKyIT/11-sponsor-sprints-allow-people-to-expense-some-things-under-some-conditions
15:13:11 pep. I sent something regarding this on the scam list and I've got no return.
15:14:11 pep. I mean apart from daniel whom I spoke to directly. but none on the list, nothing in the room either.
15:14:24 Nÿco (I'm here...)
15:14:29 pep. Nÿco, hey!
15:14:56 Nÿco am I on that list
15:15:09 Nÿco I'd love the XSF sponsors some sprints
15:15:13 pep. https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/scam/2019-November/000000.html
15:15:22 pep. You need to register and get approved
15:15:27 pep. https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/scam
15:16:07 Nÿco ok
15:16:09 Nÿco thx
15:16:40 pep. Since I wrote this I also obviously would like to sponsor sprints. It doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be all of them, but there are things we'd need to define first. What is a sprint, and on what grounds do we sponsor.
15:16:48 Nÿco subscription request sent
15:16:59 pep. (Guus ^)
15:17:56 pep. I gave suggestions of a definition and criteria. I'd like to have people's input
15:18:01 Nÿco I believe it would be better to find free venues also, the people/companies giving the offices could provide some food and beverage when possible I'd rather spend XSF money on travelling expenses, for example, or printing swag
15:18:27 daniel I agree with Nÿco on that
15:18:50 pep. Nÿco, travelling expenses such as?
15:18:51 daniel Especially if you consider how expensive venues are compared to food
15:19:32 Nÿco train, bus, maybe car, maybe not plane as usually a bit more exensive?
15:19:40 Nÿco expensive
15:19:59 daniel The question was probably for who
15:20:10 pep. That's the thing. I think we should define "sprint" first.
15:20:10 Nÿco ah
15:20:21 Nÿco development sprints?
15:20:38 pep. I personally don't especially want to encourage bigger ones. My goal is lots of small events all around
15:20:42 pep. For sprints
15:20:46 Nÿco since Sprints work quite successfully this year, I'd rather "invest" in that
15:20:56 pep. and as written in the task description, "I have personally been using this term to describe "contributor" events, (that is mainly developers, translators, documentarians), of a few days, generally over a weekend, sometimes a bit longer)."
15:21:06 Nÿco agree fr lots of small sprints everywhere
15:21:11 daniel Sponsoring individuals to come to sprint is a very slippery slope
15:21:18 Nÿco yeah...
15:21:59 daniel I'm personally fine with limiting it to 'rewards' in form of foods and drinks
15:22:11 Nÿco also, we could experiment "meetups", like one night, three talks of 20-40 mn each that means three speakers, probably need a projector, and a mostly passive audience we still need to experiment on that
15:22:33 daniel Independently of that we could consider supporting speakers who go to conferences
15:22:35 Nÿco I suggest non-alcoholic beverages
15:23:00 Nÿco "speakers who go to conferences" probably, but it is not about "Sprints", is it?
15:23:08 daniel No
15:23:16 daniel That's why I said independently of that
15:23:22 Nÿco ok :)
15:23:45 Nÿco I all in favor of experimenting the XSF sponsoring of Dev Sprints
15:24:24 daniel > I suggest non-alcoholic beverages I'm OK with that.
15:24:56 daniel The overall amount of alcohol consumed during all the sprints I attended thus far was close to if not zero
15:25:22 pep. lots of caffeine though :p
15:25:26 Nÿco hehehe
15:25:32 Nÿco pizza overload?
15:25:34 daniel But I'm OK with codefying that if people feel the need
15:25:42 pep. Ok I'm trying to come up with a definition
15:25:47 Nÿco let's try
15:25:56 Nÿco you draft something here?
15:25:59 Nÿco now?
15:26:05 Nÿco or offline later, for review?
15:26:47 pep. hmm, how do we divide this? We can say that that's a direction we agree we want to go, judging by the chat today
15:26:49 pep. For a start
15:27:01 Guus back, reading up...
15:27:44 pep. Then the two other milestones will be coming up with a definition of a sprint we agree on. Then on what grounds we sponsor, and what that sponsor money is for
15:27:46 Nÿco pep. you lead this initiative? we feed back to you?
15:27:53 pep. Yep I'm happy to lead this
15:27:59 Nÿco +1
15:28:22 pep. One sec, let ask properly
15:29:09 Guus "There are no pending requests." on the SCAM mailinglist signup thingy. Did your subscription fail, Nÿco ?
15:29:16 daniel Open to the public / announced in advance / primary focus to improve and develop open source software for the xmpp ecosystems / must be blogged about
15:29:44 daniel Alternatively 'must be social mediad about'
15:30:04 Nÿco Guus retried: SCAM Subscription results Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions.
15:30:48 Nÿco "social mediad" :) is it trademarked? Can i use it again? ;-)
15:31:03 pep. I move we go ahead with deciding how to sponsor sprints.
15:31:19 Nÿco +1
15:31:24 pep. +1
15:31:44 daniel +1
15:32:02 pep. I agree to lead the initiative and I'll come back to you on the list with more questions (what I said above, what is a sprint, on what grounds do we sponsor, and what should the money be used for)
15:32:11 Guus +1
15:32:17 pep. (should or should not be used for*)
15:32:27 Guus But I strongly agree with what daniel said: this is a slippery slope
15:33:06 Nÿco ...if we sponsor people
15:33:31 pep. Guus, I'm happy to say something like "we only sponsor N events per quarter / year" or things like "first come first served". We can all discuss that later
15:33:58 Guus also, from another perspective: there is a upside to not having big amounts of XSF money for this: commercial companies are often willing to pitch in. This happened with the London and Den Haag sprints, for example. Maybe we should also try to help sprint organizers engage with local businesses.
15:34:15 Guus the added bonus of that is that we might pull in such businesses in the XMPP community
15:34:36 Nÿco wait, sprints are for development meetups are for pitches and commecial announcements
15:34:37 Guus Note that I'm not against the XSF doing sponsoring at all - but these could complement eachother
15:34:59 pep. Nÿco, eventually everything it useful for marketing and bringing people in..
15:35:00 Guus Many commercial organisations are very happy to host developers
15:35:02 Guus if only to woo them.
15:35:24 pep. Guus, we can do that in parallel
15:35:29 Guus yes, absolutely
15:35:30 daniel This assumes that you know people
15:35:35 Nÿco well, the host of such sprints will be duly thanked, I hope
15:35:41 daniel Which raises the barrier for sprints
15:35:43 pep. Yeah also. what daniel says
15:35:58 Guus I'm not sure what you mean, Daniel?
15:35:59 pep. I think coming to the XSF asking if you can do a sprint is a good first step
15:36:03 Nÿco not sure either
15:36:07 pep. We're not there yet
15:36:33 pep. With this I mostly want to make noise saying we're doing things for the community
15:36:46 Guus There often are local developer groups (at least, around here) that already have frequent meetups, often tied in with venues at organizations (think Java User Groups, stuff like that).
15:36:47 pep. And have people know. it's not just isolated events that core members organize
15:37:40 Guus Yeah, absolutely
15:37:43 pep. In any case, I see there is not strong disagreement, I guess we can move this to the list
15:37:48 Nÿco oh it all suddenly becomes blurry, I can't follow that conversation anymore...
15:38:31 Guus I'm just saying that if you need to find a venue, calling up a local medium-sized tech company and explain who you are, what you want to do, and ask if they can host it, you'd probably get positive results.
15:38:37 pep. Nÿco, daniel reacted to what Guus said, that the XSF should also encourage people to contact their local companies.
15:38:59 daniel I see the sponsoring of food and drinks as a reward for doing something and making buzz on social media
15:39:10 Nÿco ok, so it's orthogonal to the current agenda item, right?
15:39:17 daniel It also shows the common developer that the xsf is there for them
15:39:17 pep. Nÿco, yeah it's complementary
15:39:22 Nÿco ok
15:39:28 pep. daniel, agreed
15:39:44 daniel There are lots of developers not highly associated with the xsf
15:39:47 Nÿco ok, so we can also build a policy on that
15:39:51 pep. No more agenda items.
15:39:54 pep. 5. AOB
15:39:55 Nÿco POSS?
15:40:08 pep. Anything SCAM should decide on for POSS?
15:40:20 pep. Or can we talk about it after the meeting
15:40:30 Nÿco yeah, who's joining? what do we plan to do?
15:40:32 daniel There are lots of developers not tightly associated with the xsf
15:40:38 Nÿco why outside this meeting?
15:41:32 pep. because SCAM people might not all be involved and we might want to take that to interested people, assuming there's not budget or anything else to be agreed on
15:41:34 Guus I'll not be at POSS
15:41:47 pep. daniel, are you going in the end?
15:41:51 Guus (also, I'm running late for the next meeting 🙂 )
15:41:54 daniel pep.: no
15:41:55 pep. Nÿco, me, Link Mauve
15:42:09 pep. Nÿco, ok we can talk about it afterwards then :)
15:42:14 pep. Ok, other AOBs?
15:42:44 Nÿco Guus > I'll not be at POSS can you say that instead of: I won't be at POSS ?
15:42:57 pep. Ok, closing then
15:42:59 Nÿco ok
15:43:01 pep. Thanks all!
15:43:05 Nÿco thx all!
15:43:11 Guus thanks!
15:43:27 pep. difficult start, but we made somthing out of it
15:43:50 Nÿco the routine will refine, slowly but surely, if we are consistent and engaged
15:43:56 pep. I'll send minutes soon
15:43:56 Guus I'll not be I won't be Both short for "I will not be" I think. But i'm not a native speaker.
15:44:07 Nÿco thx
15:44:34 pep. And back fixing that moving setup..
16:00:33 Nÿco Guus I had to confirm by email: Awaiting moderator approval You have successfully confirmed your subscription request to the mailing list SCAM, however final approval is required from the list moderator before you will be subscribed. Your request has been forwarded to the list moderator, and you will be notified of the moderator's decision.
16:02:19 pep. Guus, thanks for organizing things for Brussels btw.
16:02:32 pep. I was curious why the XSF always choose the Thon hotel.
16:02:45 pep. What's special about it? I see it as a really expensive hotel
16:03:01 pep. Not especially close to the venue
16:04:10 Nÿco "le thon, c'est bon"
16:04:14 Nÿco :)
16:08:39 pep. :)
16:14:53 Nÿco private joke for the French: it was a TV ad in the 70s https://www.ina.fr/video/PUB3212621118 means "thuna, it's good!"
16:18:44 daniel Yeah that hotel is ridiculously expensive. Even for Brussels. For comparison the thon hotel (same chain) in the city center (equally not close to the venue is 20 or 30% cheaper). And even in the EU quarter I'm paying for a similar 4* business hotel (also some big chain) 30% less or so
16:22:02 daniel Also I stayed at the other Thon hotel for a work trip recently and it didn't feel that special. So assuming the thon EU is similar I don't get it
16:25:06 pep. People had money and were sponsored by companies that didn't care, I guess
16:25:23 pep. I don't think that reflects the current situation
16:27:03 Nÿco I missed the opportunity to join Thon EU, and when I phoned, the lady explained that we start on Wednesday night, when people are still massively working in this area, prices go down on Fridays also other Thons are cheaper
16:27:25 daniel Yeah. I mean luckily I'm no longer in a situation where I have to pick the cheapest hotel in the red light district. But a) a 30% difference is still relevant for me b) we have people in our community who still live on a students budget
16:28:00 pep. I live on no budget currently so yeah that'd be cool to be able to join the majority of the people without having to pay a fortune :)
16:28:14 pep. (I mean, no income.)
16:28:28 daniel > also other Thons are cheaper Yes that's what I said. Same hotel chain. Different (equally bad location for getting to Cisco). Lower price
16:29:16 Nÿco some communities and companies use large houses (via Airbnb)
16:30:35 daniel Having rented a large airbnb house recently that was a pain that I don't want to repeat. Also having breakfast served to you and stuff. I'm OK with hotels. Doesn't have to be a shoestring budget
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16:30:45 Nÿco I mean they share a large flat
16:30:45 daniel But does it have to be the most expensive one?
16:31:14 Nÿco agree
16:32:27 daniel I mean personally I'm OK with making my own choices (I already booked a few weeks ago). But chosing the most expensive hotel creates a divide between those who bill their companies and those who don't
16:33:01 Guus I'm not sure how we ended up with Thon EU. The biggest benefit is that we know what to expect there, I guess. I'm open to changes, but don't have the time now to look for suitable replacements.
16:33:32 Guus Right now, I'm preparing dinner
16:34:01 Guus I've not entered into an agreement with Thon yet, so if we want to change it, we can.
16:34:06 Guus But afk now
16:34:31 Nÿco I'll point to you the Thon I've been to, two-three years in a grow
16:35:13 daniel Nÿco: the one close to Gare du Nord?
16:35:42 Nÿco huh...
16:35:44 Nÿco Thon Hotel Brussels City Centre
16:35:46 Nÿco found it
16:35:54 Nÿco I don't know
16:36:15 Nÿco far from Brussel-Zuid
16:36:16 daniel Nÿco: yes that's the one
16:36:20 Nÿco ok
16:36:22 ralphm From what I can find, Thon EU was suggested by dwd
16:36:36 ralphm Before that, we were in the Aloft, relatively close by
16:36:37 daniel That's where I stayed during said business trip recently
16:36:50 Nÿco so this Thon was fine for me
16:37:25 Nÿco I guess we can still find even cheaper, well let's say less expensive :)
16:37:32 ralphm The reason why we chose the EU area, was that it is in between the city centre and the ULB, and also relatively easy to get to from outside the city (and back out, for dinner, Cisco)
16:37:44 Nÿco but Thon City Center is even further than Thon EU from Cisco and FOSDEM
16:37:59 ralphm And I think also because it is more likely we can park a van closeby
16:38:36 daniel > I guess we can still find even cheaper, well let's say less expensive :) Well Brussels is expensive af. So finding something cheaper than _that_ thon is hard if you still want good quality
16:38:49 Nÿco ok
16:39:00 Nÿco you know better, I have too few experience with Brussels
16:39:24 daniel I spent a little too much time researching this...
16:39:44 Nÿco :/
16:41:08 daniel My last work trip paid me a flat fee for travels so I had incentives to look for something cheaper but with decent quality
16:41:40 ralphm One of the criteria is bacon at breakfast, I hear. :-)
16:42:07 pep. I don't mind getting my own breakfast fwiw, or no breakfast.
16:42:33 ralphm I am sure there are different needs between people
16:42:58 pep. As long as I don't have to spend a fortune to get a place that is essentially to sleep
16:43:18 daniel In any case I'll be publishing where I'll be staying (like I did in recent years) and then people can make their own choices and might join me
16:45:13 Nÿco a decent internet connection is a much higher priority than bacon, but I don't want to upset our chair :)
16:45:52 Nÿco with internet connection, you can watch Kevin Bacon movies...
16:46:22 pep. Nÿco, board chair hasn't been voted yet
16:46:28 Nÿco ah
16:46:37 Nÿco future-former chair
16:49:39 ralphm But wait, there's 4G everywhere in Brussels. Don't tell me you rely in hotel WiFi?
16:50:25 ralphm pep. for clarity, until that vote, I remain Chair, so we still have one :-)
16:50:51 ralphm regarding me being upset, I love bacon, but it wasn't my requirement
16:51:43 pep. k
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