Summits, Conferences and Meetups workgroup - 2019-12-03

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  5. Guus

    Yes. We discussed it in here a couple of months ago. I've reached out to our contacts at Cisco, who confirmed that we were welcome.

  6. Guus

    In the last few years, I usually take point with Ralph in cc. There's no particular reason other than at the time, no-one else stepped up.

  7. Guus

    I've also started to make arrangements for the hotel. I still need to reach out to the restaurant for the annual dinner.

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  10. N每co

    thx a lot Guus for this, every year

  11. Guus

    no problem!

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  18. pep.

    Guus, it'd be great if SCAM was in on this I think

  19. pep.

    Even if it's not directly in CC (as much as I'd like to)

  20. pep.

    That is, written somewhere on the wiki, who to contact etc.

  21. pep.

    somebody told me it wasn't on the summit page

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  25. Guus

    pep. you're absolutely right - I need to spend the time to write that all down

  26. Guus

    I've just been called by a service person who's on his way over to my house. Unsure when he'll be here, but chances have it it'll be right when we have our meeting.

  27. pep.

    Right, that's today

  28. Guus

    That's in 12 minutes 馃槂

  29. pep.

    I'm currently struggling with my movim setup. PHP is such a pain..

  30. Guus

    I've only recently dabbled a bit with PHP again

  31. pep.

    Yeah sorry I still don't have a phone, nothing to remind me :x

  32. Guus

  33. pep.

    (I never had any calendar app on my laptop)

  34. Guus

    ? 馃槢

  35. Guus

    Let me share now what I was going to share in the meeting

  36. Guus

    (it's not to much)

  37. Guus

    I've reached out to Thon for a quote

  38. Guus

    They've actually responded earlier today. I'll compose a message for the mailinglists, inviting people to sign up

  39. Guus

    on first sight, prices are a bit up from last year - but you can share a room against good discounts.

  40. Guus

    I have yet to reach out to the restaurant

  41. Guus

    I'm not expecting an issue there, other than how many exclamation marks ralphm insists need to be on the listing of one particular desert on the menu...

  42. Guus

    like clockwork, that guy just showed up

  43. Guus


  44. pep.


  45. pep.


  46. pep.

    It's time

  47. pep.

    daniel, COM8, N每co

  48. pep.

    Guus is coming back I assume

  49. pep.

    1. Who is here

  50. pep.

    I feel overwhelmed by all your answers

  51. pep.

    If there is an issue with the meeting times, please say so and we should move it.

  52. pep.

    If it's just that you're not aware of it, please make a note somewhere

  53. pep. adds a note to quickly setup his new phone

  54. daniel

    One sec

  55. daniel

    Sorry I'm here now. My 'one sec' got delayed because I was out of cellphone coverage

  56. pep.


  57. pep.

    Ok, assuming Guus is coming back soon-ish, let's go ahead

  58. pep.

    2. Agenda

  59. pep.

    3. 36C3 prep

  60. pep.

    hmm, before that, anything to add to the agenda?

  61. pep.

    (I need to work on my meeting skills)

  62. pep.

    Ok 36C3 prep then.

  63. pep.

    daniel, you're taking care of the flag pole?

  64. daniel

    I have plans to make one there

  65. pep.

    We did talk about organizing meetups right, should we take some time afterwards to properly register sessions etc. with interested people?

  66. pep.

    There is currently a room at, though it may change soon, but for now people are idling there

  67. daniel

    I don't think you can already do that

  68. pep.

    We can setup some time to talk about it in like 2 weeks maybe.

  69. pep.

    I'll poke people here and in that other channel afterwards.

  70. pep.

    Let's move on

  71. pep.

    4. Sponsor sprints.

  72. pep.

  73. pep.

    I sent something regarding this on the scam list and I've got no return.

  74. pep.

    I mean apart from daniel whom I spoke to directly. but none on the list, nothing in the room either.

  75. N每co

    (I'm here...)

  76. pep.

    N每co, hey!

  77. N每co

    am I on that list

  78. N每co

    I'd love the XSF sponsors some sprints

  79. pep.

  80. pep.

    You need to register and get approved

  81. pep.

  82. N每co


  83. N每co


  84. pep.

    Since I wrote this I also obviously would like to sponsor sprints. It doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be all of them, but there are things we'd need to define first. What is a sprint, and on what grounds do we sponsor.

  85. N每co

    subscription request sent

  86. pep.

    (Guus ^)

  87. pep.

    I gave suggestions of a definition and criteria. I'd like to have people's input

  88. N每co

    I believe it would be better to find free venues also, the people/companies giving the offices could provide some food and beverage when possible I'd rather spend XSF money on travelling expenses, for example, or printing swag

  89. daniel

    I agree with N每co on that

  90. pep.

    N每co, travelling expenses such as?

  91. daniel

    Especially if you consider how expensive venues are compared to food

  92. N每co

    train, bus, maybe car, maybe not plane as usually a bit more exensive?

  93. N每co


  94. daniel

    The question was probably for who

  95. pep.

    That's the thing. I think we should define "sprint" first.

  96. N每co


  97. N每co

    development sprints?

  98. pep.

    I personally don't especially want to encourage bigger ones. My goal is lots of small events all around

  99. pep.

    For sprints

  100. N每co

    since Sprints work quite successfully this year, I'd rather "invest" in that

  101. pep.

    and as written in the task description, "I have personally been using this term to describe "contributor" events, (that is mainly developers, translators, documentarians), of a few days, generally over a weekend, sometimes a bit longer)."

  102. N每co

    agree fr lots of small sprints everywhere

  103. daniel

    Sponsoring individuals to come to sprint is a very slippery slope

  104. N每co


  105. daniel

    I'm personally fine with limiting it to 'rewards' in form of foods and drinks

  106. N每co

    also, we could experiment "meetups", like one night, three talks of 20-40 mn each that means three speakers, probably need a projector, and a mostly passive audience we still need to experiment on that

  107. daniel

    Independently of that we could consider supporting speakers who go to conferences

  108. N每co

    I suggest non-alcoholic beverages

  109. N每co

    "speakers who go to conferences" probably, but it is not about "Sprints", is it?

  110. daniel


  111. daniel

    That's why I said independently of that

  112. N每co

    ok :)

  113. N每co

    I all in favor of experimenting the XSF sponsoring of Dev Sprints

  114. daniel

    > I suggest non-alcoholic beverages I'm OK with that.

  115. daniel

    The overall amount of alcohol consumed during all the sprints I attended thus far was close to if not zero

  116. pep.

    lots of caffeine though :p

  117. N每co


  118. N每co

    pizza overload?

  119. daniel

    But I'm OK with codefying that if people feel the need

  120. pep.

    Ok I'm trying to come up with a definition

  121. N每co

    let's try

  122. N每co

    you draft something here?

  123. N每co


  124. N每co

    or offline later, for review?

  125. pep.

    hmm, how do we divide this? We can say that that's a direction we agree we want to go, judging by the chat today

  126. pep.

    For a start

  127. Guus

    back, reading up...

  128. pep.

    Then the two other milestones will be coming up with a definition of a sprint we agree on. Then on what grounds we sponsor, and what that sponsor money is for

  129. N每co

    pep. you lead this initiative? we feed back to you?

  130. pep.

    Yep I'm happy to lead this

  131. N每co


  132. pep.

    One sec, let ask properly

  133. Guus

    "There are no pending requests." on the SCAM mailinglist signup thingy. Did your subscription fail, N每co ?

  134. daniel

    Open to the public / announced in advance / primary focus to improve and develop open source software for the xmpp ecosystems / must be blogged about

  135. daniel

    Alternatively 'must be social mediad about'

  136. N每co

    Guus retried: SCAM Subscription results Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions.

  137. N每co

    "social mediad" :) is it trademarked? Can i use it again? ;-)

  138. pep.

    I move we go ahead with deciding how to sponsor sprints.

  139. N每co


  140. pep.


  141. daniel


  142. pep.

    I agree to lead the initiative and I'll come back to you on the list with more questions (what I said above, what is a sprint, on what grounds do we sponsor, and what should the money be used for)

  143. Guus


  144. pep.

    (should or should not be used for*)

  145. Guus

    But I strongly agree with what daniel said: this is a slippery slope

  146. N每co

    ...if we sponsor people

  147. pep.

    Guus, I'm happy to say something like "we only sponsor N events per quarter / year" or things like "first come first served". We can all discuss that later

  148. Guus

    also, from another perspective: there is a upside to not having big amounts of XSF money for this: commercial companies are often willing to pitch in. This happened with the London and Den Haag sprints, for example. Maybe we should also try to help sprint organizers engage with local businesses.

  149. Guus

    the added bonus of that is that we might pull in such businesses in the XMPP community

  150. N每co

    wait, sprints are for development meetups are for pitches and commecial announcements

  151. Guus

    Note that I'm not against the XSF doing sponsoring at all - but these could complement eachother

  152. pep.

    N每co, eventually everything it useful for marketing and bringing people in..

  153. Guus

    Many commercial organisations are very happy to host developers

  154. Guus

    if only to woo them.

  155. pep.

    Guus, we can do that in parallel

  156. Guus

    yes, absolutely

  157. daniel

    This assumes that you know people

  158. N每co

    well, the host of such sprints will be duly thanked, I hope

  159. daniel

    Which raises the barrier for sprints

  160. pep.

    Yeah also. what daniel says

  161. Guus

    I'm not sure what you mean, Daniel?

  162. pep.

    I think coming to the XSF asking if you can do a sprint is a good first step

  163. N每co

    not sure either

  164. pep.

    We're not there yet

  165. pep.

    With this I mostly want to make noise saying we're doing things for the community

  166. Guus

    There often are local developer groups (at least, around here) that already have frequent meetups, often tied in with venues at organizations (think Java User Groups, stuff like that).

  167. pep.

    And have people know. it's not just isolated events that core members organize

  168. Guus

    Yeah, absolutely

  169. pep.

    In any case, I see there is not strong disagreement, I guess we can move this to the list

  170. N每co

    oh it all suddenly becomes blurry, I can't follow that conversation anymore...

  171. Guus

    I'm just saying that if you need to find a venue, calling up a local medium-sized tech company and explain who you are, what you want to do, and ask if they can host it, you'd probably get positive results.

  172. pep.

    N每co, daniel reacted to what Guus said, that the XSF should also encourage people to contact their local companies.

  173. daniel

    I see the sponsoring of food and drinks as a reward for doing something and making buzz on social media

  174. N每co

    ok, so it's orthogonal to the current agenda item, right?

  175. daniel

    It also shows the common developer that the xsf is there for them

  176. pep.

    N每co, yeah it's complementary

  177. N每co


  178. pep.

    daniel, agreed

  179. daniel

    There are lots of developers not highly associated with the xsf

  180. N每co

    ok, so we can also build a policy on that

  181. pep.

    No more agenda items.

  182. pep.

    5. AOB

  183. N每co


  184. pep.

    Anything SCAM should decide on for POSS?

  185. pep.

    Or can we talk about it after the meeting

  186. N每co

    yeah, who's joining? what do we plan to do?

  187. daniel

    There are lots of developers not tightly associated with the xsf

  188. N每co

    why outside this meeting?

  189. pep.

    because SCAM people might not all be involved and we might want to take that to interested people, assuming there's not budget or anything else to be agreed on

  190. Guus

    I'll not be at POSS

  191. pep.

    daniel, are you going in the end?

  192. Guus

    (also, I'm running late for the next meeting 馃檪 )

  193. daniel

    pep.: no

  194. pep.

    N每co, me, Link Mauve

  195. pep.

    N每co, ok we can talk about it afterwards then :)

  196. pep.

    Ok, other AOBs?

  197. N每co

    Guus > I'll not be at POSS can you say that instead of: I won't be at POSS ?

  198. pep.

    Ok, closing then

  199. N每co


  200. pep.

    Thanks all!

  201. N每co

    thx all!

  202. Guus


  203. pep.

    difficult start, but we made somthing out of it

  204. N每co

    the routine will refine, slowly but surely, if we are consistent and engaged

  205. pep.

    I'll send minutes soon

  206. Guus

    I'll not be I won't be Both short for "I will not be" I think. But i'm not a native speaker.

  207. N每co


  208. pep.

    And back fixing that moving setup..

  209. N每co

    Guus I had to confirm by email: Awaiting moderator approval You have successfully confirmed your subscription request to the mailing list SCAM, however final approval is required from the list moderator before you will be subscribed. Your request has been forwarded to the list moderator, and you will be notified of the moderator's decision.

  210. pep.

    Guus, thanks for organizing things for Brussels btw.

  211. pep.

    I was curious why the XSF always choose the Thon hotel.

  212. pep.

    What's special about it? I see it as a really expensive hotel

  213. pep.

    Not especially close to the venue

  214. N每co

    "le thon, c'est bon"

  215. N每co


  216. pep.


  217. N每co

    private joke for the French: it was a TV ad in the 70s means "thuna, it's good!"

  218. daniel

    Yeah that hotel is ridiculously expensive. Even for Brussels. For comparison the thon hotel (same chain) in the city center (equally not close to the venue is 20 or 30% cheaper). And even in the EU quarter I'm paying for a similar 4* business hotel (also some big chain) 30% less or so

  219. daniel

    Also I stayed at the other Thon hotel for a work trip recently and it didn't feel that special. So assuming the thon EU is similar I don't get it

  220. pep.

    People had money and were sponsored by companies that didn't care, I guess

  221. pep.

    I don't think that reflects the current situation

  222. N每co

    I missed the opportunity to join Thon EU, and when I phoned, the lady explained that we start on Wednesday night, when people are still massively working in this area, prices go down on Fridays also other Thons are cheaper

  223. daniel

    Yeah. I mean luckily I'm no longer in a situation where I have to pick the cheapest hotel in the red light district. But a) a 30% difference is still relevant for me b) we have people in our community who still live on a students budget

  224. pep.

    I live on no budget currently so yeah that'd be cool to be able to join the majority of the people without having to pay a fortune :)

  225. pep.

    (I mean, no income.)

  226. daniel

    > also other Thons are cheaper Yes that's what I said. Same hotel chain. Different (equally bad location for getting to Cisco). Lower price

  227. N每co

    some communities and companies use large houses (via Airbnb)

  228. daniel

    Having rented a large airbnb house recently that was a pain that I don't want to repeat. Also having breakfast served to you and stuff. I'm OK with hotels. Doesn't have to be a shoestring budget

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  230. N每co

    I mean they share a large flat

  231. daniel

    But does it have to be the most expensive one?

  232. N每co


  233. daniel

    I mean personally I'm OK with making my own choices (I already booked a few weeks ago). But chosing the most expensive hotel creates a divide between those who bill their companies and those who don't

  234. Guus

    I'm not sure how we ended up with Thon EU. The biggest benefit is that we know what to expect there, I guess. I'm open to changes, but don't have the time now to look for suitable replacements.

  235. Guus

    Right now, I'm preparing dinner

  236. Guus

    I've not entered into an agreement with Thon yet, so if we want to change it, we can.

  237. Guus

    But afk now

  238. N每co

    I'll point to you the Thon I've been to, two-three years in a grow

  239. daniel

    N每co: the one close to Gare du Nord?

  240. N每co


  241. N每co

    Thon Hotel Brussels City Centre

  242. N每co

    found it

  243. N每co

    I don't know

  244. N每co

    far from Brussel-Zuid

  245. daniel

    N每co: yes that's the one

  246. N每co


  247. ralphm

    From what I can find, Thon EU was suggested by dwd

  248. ralphm

    Before that, we were in the Aloft, relatively close by

  249. daniel

    That's where I stayed during said business trip recently

  250. N每co

    so this Thon was fine for me

  251. N每co

    I guess we can still find even cheaper, well let's say less expensive :)

  252. ralphm

    The reason why we chose the EU area, was that it is in between the city centre and the ULB, and also relatively easy to get to from outside the city (and back out, for dinner, Cisco)

  253. N每co

    but Thon City Center is even further than Thon EU from Cisco and FOSDEM

  254. ralphm

    And I think also because it is more likely we can park a van closeby

  255. daniel

    > I guess we can still find even cheaper, well let's say less expensive :) Well Brussels is expensive af. So finding something cheaper than _that_ thon is hard if you still want good quality

  256. N每co


  257. N每co

    you know better, I have too few experience with Brussels

  258. daniel

    I spent a little too much time researching this...

  259. N每co


  260. daniel

    My last work trip paid me a flat fee for travels so I had incentives to look for something cheaper but with decent quality

  261. ralphm

    One of the criteria is bacon at breakfast, I hear. :-)

  262. pep.

    I don't mind getting my own breakfast fwiw, or no breakfast.

  263. ralphm

    I am sure there are different needs between people

  264. pep.

    As long as I don't have to spend a fortune to get a place that is essentially to sleep

  265. daniel

    In any case I'll be publishing where I'll be staying (like I did in recent years) and then people can make their own choices and might join me

  266. N每co

    a decent internet connection is a much higher priority than bacon, but I don't want to upset our chair :)

  267. N每co

    with internet connection, you can watch Kevin Bacon movies...

  268. pep.

    N每co, board chair hasn't been voted yet

  269. N每co


  270. N每co

    future-former chair

  271. ralphm

    But wait, there's 4G everywhere in Brussels. Don't tell me you rely in hotel WiFi?

  272. ralphm

    pep. for clarity, until that vote, I remain Chair, so we still have one :-)

  273. ralphm

    regarding me being upset, I love bacon, but it wasn't my requirement

  274. pep.


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