Summits, Conferences and Meetups workgroup - 2022-12-28

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  17. MattJ

    Hi folks, hope everyone had/is having a good holiday period :)

  18. MattJ

    A couple of questions:

  19. MattJ

    1) Any news on the Cisco office space? I noticed the offer from on the FOSDEM list... not entirely sure if it would be appropriate for a summit, but it could be interesting

  20. MattJ

    2) Are we printing hoodies/t-shirts this year, and if so, who is working on that? We were wondering about possibly doing some Prosody (maybe Snikket?) swag. I'm just not sure about logistics though, e.g. how to get them to FOSDEM.

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  23. pep.

    The hsbxl looks a lot more to what I expect from such an event (than Cisco offices). But I won't be there this year so it doesn't really matter :x

  24. MattJ

    Depends on the kind of event. Summit benefits more from the large discussion space and remote attendance facilities.

  25. MattJ

    Hackerspace would be great for smaller sprint-like stuff I think

  26. MattJ

    I like the hackerspace potential for introducing people from "outside" the community to XMPP

  27. MattJ

    The traditional summit venue isn't great for that, since it requires registration and is a trek outside the city centre

  28. pep.

    This last part yes, very much ^

  29. pep.

    I don't know if I agree with your first sentence. I mean it's not like we were 50 at summits the times I've been there. But it's true we may not all fit in there

  30. MattJ

    I think average attendance is around 35-40 people

  31. pep.

    Maybe it would help finding a venu (or close venues!) where we can split into working groups

  32. pep.

    Maybe it would help finding a venue (or close venues!) where we can split into working groups

  33. MattJ

    Cisco has that option, and we've exercised it before (there are 2 smaller adjacent rooms)

  34. MattJ

    The large room also has a divider, though I don't recall we've ever used it

  35. pep.

    Even though.. it would be at the detriment of being able to listen/participate to everything. I've been to summit 3 times? I don't think we've split more than once on a very specific topic

  36. daniel

    IIRC splitting up was always discussed as on option but most of the time most people where interested in most topics. or at the very least there was never a clear divide of people only interested in one thing and willing to miss another

  37. MattJ


  38. daniel

    in general - now that the pandemic is over … - we should have more sprints (again) but summit and sprints are not the same (imho)

  39. pep.

    Still I'd appreciate if summits were also more welcoming. Because it's about protocols doesn't mean it has to be select and corporate-friendly :P

  40. MattJ

    I don't think it's select and any more friendly to corporate than e.g. individuals

  41. daniel

    what do you find not welcoming about the historic summit format?

  42. MattJ

    Most people who attend are individuals, and every summit generally includes new faces

  43. pep.

    daniel, what MattJ said earlier

  44. daniel

    needing to preregister is not ideal. but it's not a major hurdle

  45. MattJ

    Okay, I think there is a space between something I'd call "select" and something that's not going to attract passers-by

  46. pep.

    preregistration, also the fact that it's out of town

  47. pep.

    And well, the general issues at the XSF, white males and all

  48. pep.

    But that's not specific to summits

  49. MattJ

    I don't understand what skin colour has to do with this, or why you make it about that

  50. pep.

    I don't "make it" about this

  51. MattJ

    I don't understand why you say "white males" in this context, then

  52. msavoritias

    It was in the context of "welcoming"

  53. pep.

    Well have a look at the crowd attending summit. It could be made more welcoming to other parts of the population.

  54. daniel

    I find the general facilities (the actual rooms + the fact that there is a cafeteria) quite nice. yes it's a bit out of the way. yes you need to preregister. but to me that's acceptable

  55. MattJ

    We're talking about summit venue, if you think our venue is excluding people, I'm curious to hear the reason. Otherwise, let's stick to practical stuff.

  56. pep.

    Hackerspaces aren't perfect either in this regard mind

  57. pep.

    But it'd already be a change

  58. daniel

    given that it is free (compared to how expensive renting out rooms at the Thon hotel would be presumably)

  59. pep.

    MattJ, I'm sorry we always cross swords on this, really. I don't understand how you don't see it

  60. pep.

    But anyway, I won't be there this year so..

  61. pep.

    daniel, well money is another weird topic at the XSF :P

  62. msavoritias

    I agree about the pre registration thing being a hurdle

  63. MattJ

    I'm sorry too, because I don't want our events to be unwelcoming, and I don't feel they are. But rather than pointing out any actual problems or providing solutions, you casually drop weighty stuff into a practical discussion about venues.

  64. daniel

    msavoritias, care to explain why?

  65. MattJ

    If our venue is excluding people people based on colour (or anything), then please explain why and we can see what we can fix

  66. MattJ

    But I feel like something is being made out of nothing, here

  67. pep.

    I said this is not exclusive to the venue

  68. pep.

    To summit*, event

  69. pep.

    To summit*, even

  70. MattJ

    I'm all for initiatives to increase diversity in the community, but I don't feel the summit venue is the problem

  71. pep.

    This is an XSF issue.

  72. msavoritias

    Personally because: 1. I may not be sure I can go until its late. 2. Pre registration and the whole thing feels very corporate like. 3. I will have to be "in the know" for the event before hand to register otherwise i missed it

  73. pep.

    Even though hackerspaces may allow for a different crowd

  74. pep.

    And that's what I'm interested in here

  75. daniel

    I mean the downside of preregistration is that you need to decide a few days ahead if you are going or not. but you have to make travel arrangements and stuff anyway

  76. msavoritias

    Yeah basically what pep. Says

  77. msavoritias

    For my second point :)

  78. MattJ

    msavoritias, you can always attend remotely (even anonymously), and that is one of the benefits of the current venue (it has a good a/v setup)

  79. pep.

    Let's be honest about remote participation, it's good that it's available but I feel it's mostly a viewer position

  80. msavoritias

    True. You can. But its always a worse experience personally. And doesnt really stop the problems

  81. MattJ

    What problems?

  82. daniel

    i mean if that's a pratical problem you can register and not go

  83. MattJ

    Registration is quite common to many events. It helps with planning, and ensuring people can actually fit in the venue.

  84. daniel

    it's not like we are charging a fee

  85. msavoritias

    MattJ: The problems i listed. With preregistration

  86. MattJ

    1. You can register but not turn up

  87. MattJ

    2. ...and the problem is?

  88. msavoritias

    And yeah its basically a viewer position

  89. MattJ

    3. That applies with or without registration

  90. MattJ

    Until time machines are invented

  91. msavoritias

    The second is what pep. said better: > pep.: > Even though hackerspaces may allow for a different crowd > And that's what I'm interested in here

  92. msavoritias

    If the other venue doesnt have it

  93. MattJ

    Doesn't have what?

  94. pep.

    MattJ, I agree with 3., but not having preregistration allows to be more lenient about timelines.

  95. msavoritias


  96. msavoritias

    Yeah. Then i dont have to follow all groups and feeds ;)

  97. MattJ

    If you're not following XMPP then it's probably not an event for you anyway

  98. daniel

    it's not like they do background checks on you. most events I've been to require you to get (sometimes free) tickets in advance

  99. msavoritias

    Its part of the diversity that was said earlier

  100. daniel

    fosdem ist the weird outlier here

  101. MattJ

    FOSDEM is growing uncontrollably year-on-year

  102. pep.

    This I also agree with

  103. pep.

    Part of the reason I'm not going

  104. msavoritias

    > MattJ: > If you're not following XMPP then it's probably not an event for you anyway If its meant to be an exclusive event only for people in our circle then om

  105. msavoritias

    > MattJ: > If you're not following XMPP then it's probably not an event for you anyway If its meant to be an exclusive event only for people in our circle then ok

  106. msavoritias

    I guess it doesnt matter to lower friction

  107. MattJ

    It's not *exclusive*, that makes it sound like we're barring people from joining, or being selective about who can join

  108. MattJ

    It's open to anyone who wants to waste a couple of days discussing protocol stuff

  109. MattJ

    That is, naturally, not everyone

  110. MattJ

    If you think there is someone would would be interested in such an event, please spread the word

  111. pep.

    Ok then we're not discussing the venue anymore and we can make it about diversity in the community again? :P

  112. MattJ

    Yeah, you successfully derailed the venue discussion I guess

  113. MattJ

    and whatever I was doing

  114. pep.

    I didn't. I said I'd prefer hackerspaces and why

  115. MattJ

    I think there are advantages in both directions. I think hackerspaces are a clear win for sprints and smaller gatherings. The summit is slightly different to those.

  116. pep.

    It's different because we want it different. I think

  117. MattJ

    Sure, active members of the XMPP community need somewhere to gather IRL and discuss stuff

  118. daniel

    if we were charging an entry fee I'd be very much in favor of removing that hurdle. an entry fee can be very prohibative. and i've year after year advocated for not making the official hotel the most expensive one in town

  119. daniel

    but registration... in a wiki... i don’t get

  120. MattJ

    It's not an outreach event, but we have discussed a separate event for that

  121. pep.

    (have we?)

  122. MattJ

    Yes, something that's not about protocol discussions but more for people outside the community

  123. MattJ

    Kinda what the FOSDEM booth is meant to be, but not at FOSDEM

  124. pep.

    Ok I'm interested. But I'm happy to hear about it later

  125. msavoritias

    Yeah that sounds nice

  126. MattJ

    But you're talking about a community that is only just scraping together the summit, it would need some energy to figure out such an event (venue, funding, etc.)

  127. MattJ

    I think the tentative plan was to add another day before/after the summit/FOSDEM, or potentially convert one of the summit days (sometimes we run out of topics on the second day, suggesting we don't always need two full days)

  128. daniel

    fwiw we sort of tried to do this with a dev room at froscon. doing more developer/user oriented talks (instead of indepth protocol discussion)

  129. daniel

    but interests was very low

  130. MattJ

    In some ways I think the sprints idea is better

  131. daniel

    plus it was still the pandemic which i guess took a toll on people

  132. MattJ

    They can be in different locations, so people don't need to commit to travel

  133. MattJ

    and tailored to the audience skill level and familiarity with XMPP

  134. MattJ

    and potentially actually get stuff done, if devs are there

  135. pep.

    fwiw, yet another crowd, closer to hackerspaces, it's not very close yet but I plan to organise stuff for CCC (Camp) this year.

  136. pep.

    Re sprints, I've been very careful not to call them events for developers in the past. I'd like any kind of contributors to come and I'll probably try to do more outreach in this regard next time I organize one

  137. MattJ

    Agree, I'd be happy for anyone to turn up, even if they're only curious about XMPP and want to learn more

  138. MattJ

    It's easier to help such people in a smaller gathering

  139. pep.

    I'm sure they'd help me instead :P

  140. MattJ

    Such people turning up to the summit in the past has been a poor experience, I'm afraid... since it's very much "jumping in at the deep end"

  141. MattJ

    We used to have a regular XMPP introduction talk at FOSDEM, which was good

  142. MattJ

    But I think FOSDEM is a bit too crammed for repeating talks like that now, we don't get our own devroom

  143. emus

    > MattJ: > 2022-12-28 02:32 (GMT+01:00) > We used to have a regular XMPP introduction talk at FOSDEM, which was good +1

  144. emus

    > It's open to anyone who wants to waste a couple of days discussing protocol stuff > That is, naturally, not everyone ^^ who wonders its some geek tech focus so abstract I am happy if I can even get an engineer interested in...

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