XMPP Summit - 2012-10-25

  1. stpeter has left

  2. stpeter has joined

  3. stpeter set the topic to


  4. stpeter set the topic to

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_12 | remote participation: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7a8d1536d98d4d57a9ebb42f89e771df1757d3d1?authuser=0&hl=en-US

  5. Steffen Larsen has joined

  6. stpeter

    hi Steffen

  7. Steffen Larsen

    hi stpeter

  8. Steffen Larsen

    is the conf. on?

  9. stpeter

    we haven't quite started yet

  10. stpeter

    waiting for people to come upstairs from breakfast

  11. Tobias has joined

  12. Steffen Larsen

    ahh ok. shouldn't it be now or ?

  13. stpeter

    it should be now, yes

  14. Steffen Larsen

    ahh ok.. here itøs dinner time.

  15. Steffen Larsen


  16. stpeter

    ok, enjoy your dinner

  17. Steffen Larsen

    thats fine.. I'll take a quick bath and have a dinner. back in 20. is the conf. on then?

  18. Steffen Larsen


  19. Tobias

    stpeter, in retrospect i should have just used hangout on my mobile, i know its mic is working ^^

  20. Steffen Larsen

    is hangout up and running?

  21. Tobias

    Steffen Larsen, yup

  22. Tobias

    see subject/topic or https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7a8d1536d98d4d57a9ebb42f89e771df1757d3d1

  23. Steffen Larsen

    yes. i just followed the link

  24. Steffen Larsen

    will join in 20 min

  25. Tobias

    when will the summit start? or when is 9:00 in local time?

  26. Ben Langfeld has joined

  27. Ben Langfeld

    We're just having some network issues here, and we're missing a couple of people, but I figure we'll get started soon.

  28. Lance has joined

  29. stpeter has left

  30. stpeter has joined

  31. Tobias

    a link to the mentioned youtube broadcast, if it exist, would be nice too

  32. Ben Langfeld

    We're using google hangouts right now, I believe.

  33. Tobias


  34. stpeter set the topic to

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_12 | remote participation: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/b84e928d04633d26f5902ffcf6a597b4ba7fd3b3?authuser=0&hl=en-US

  35. stpeter

    new hangout, got disconnected from the old: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/b84e928d04633d26f5902ffcf6a597b4ba7fd3b3?authuser=0&hl=en-US

  36. stpeter

    changed it again: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/341b1d71f1b5294d0ef616e0dccee849aa918c1a?authuser=0&hl=en-US

  37. stpeter set the topic to

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_12 | remote participation: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/341b1d71f1b5294d0ef616e0dccee849aa918c1a?authuser=0&hl=en-US

  38. stpeter

    I could not figure out the YouTube integration

  39. Tobias


  40. Ben Langfeld

    There's always ustream if all else fails

  41. xnyhps has joined

  42. Tobias

    stpeter, http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/static.py?hl=en&topic=2572818&guide=2572797&page=guide.cs you might already know that....

  43. bear has joined

  44. justin has joined

  45. Lance has joined

  46. bear

    any remote folk speak up if they want me to relay questions or items

  47. Michael has joined

  48. m&m has joined

  49. Steffen Larsen

    stpeter: ha ha.. nice summit on hangouts.. can you turn up or something? :-)

  50. Steffen Larsen

    stpeter: the volume that is

  51. Florob has joined

  52. bear

    it's the microphone on the mac - so the back-of-the-room folks may be low volume

  53. Steffen Larsen

    we have to get a real mic. :-)

  54. ralphm has joined

  55. xnyhps

    Heb, joining the hangout from my phone didn't work very well

  56. xnyhps


  57. waqas has joined

  58. xnyhps has left

  59. xnyhps has joined

  60. m&m


  61. m&m

    I couldn't hear earlier

  62. bear

    brian beggs from EnerNOC

  63. bear

    he gave a talk at the realtime conference - it will be up on the internet in a couple of days

  64. dwd has joined

  65. Zash has joined

  66. m&m

    (belated) grazé

  67. m&m

    y'all blinked! (-:

  68. Michal Slaski has joined

  69. bear

    the hangout keeps dropping - peter is adjusting it when we hear the "drop" tone

  70. jack has joined

  71. bear

    Justin from fanout.io

  72. Steffen Larsen has left

  73. Steffen Larsen has joined

  74. Steffen Larsen has left

  75. Steffen Larsen has joined

  76. m&m

    could you tilt the screen back a little … he's headless (-:

  77. bear

    how is that?

  78. m&m


  79. bear

    I couldn't get his name, but he is from Erlang Solutions

  80. m&m


  81. jack

    michal slaski

  82. MattJ

    !xep 286

  83. bear


  84. bear

    XEP-0238: XMPP Protocol Flows for Inter-Domain Federation

  85. dwd

    XEP-0286 is Mobile XMPP summary, basically. Power level background, and suggestions for implementations.

  86. Steffen Larsen

    dammit we could use a real mic for the summit.. it's really hard to hear anything remotely.. :-)

  87. bear

    we are turning the camera to make the mic better

  88. Steffen Larsen

    bear: merci!

  89. bear

    they are talking about transmit delay for bosh

  90. dwd

    We have a real Mike, if that helps.

  91. bear

    please do speak up if you want to add

  92. bear


  93. Steffen Larsen

    yeah!.. can't at the moment, screaming baby, food etc. :-)

  94. bear


  95. bear

    peter is adding to the whiteboard the items that need to be brought up at the bosh session

  96. Tobias has left

  97. bear

    pirate pad http://piratepad.net/05gvwTiPKT

  98. bear

    i'll be adding what is on the whiteboard to it

  99. xnyhps has left

  100. bear

    jack is setting up the projector for a presentation

  101. tofu has joined

  102. tofu has left

  103. tofu has joined

  104. stpeter


  105. Michal Slaski has left

  106. waqas

    The link is in the room subject

  107. bear

    Jack is starting his presentation

  108. bear

    ralph is standing in front of jack with a tablet of the google hangout - jack is being very distracted by it :)

  109. Zash


  110. Ben Langfeld


  111. tofu

    Ben Langfeld: I was just looking at that :)

  112. Tobias has joined

  113. stpeter


  114. jack


  115. ralphm has left

  116. ralphm has joined

  117. ralphm


  118. Michael has left

  119. tofu has left

  120. tofu has joined

  121. winfried has joined

  122. m&m has left

  123. m&m has joined

  124. MattJ

    ~/prosody/trunk$ wc -l plugins/mod_{message,presence}.lua 85 plugins/mod_message.lua 378 plugins/mod_presence.lua

  125. m&m


  126. bear

    yes! lunch!

  127. winfried

    lunch? just had dinner ;-)

  128. m&m


  129. bear

    silly EU folks

  130. m&m

    I also humbly request y'all avoid summit topics in the lunchtime conversations (-:

  131. dwd

    lunch... mmmmm....

  132. bear

    I will try to cancel any deep conversations

  133. dwd

    m&m, we'll just talk about you.

  134. m&m

    that works

  135. m&m

    dwd: I know you're jealous of my hair and beard

  136. m&m goes to make a panini

  137. dwd

    I am, it's true.

  138. Steffen Larsen

    stpeter is really hungry… ha ha

  139. Steffen Larsen

    thanks bear.. didn't notice!

  140. winfried

    hi peter...

  141. stpeter


  142. winfried

    seems to be a hickup

  143. stpeter

    I think your video/audio froze :)

  144. winfried

    just did, yes

  145. stpeter

    Steffen Larsen: actually I can go without lunch, but Dave Cridland was complaining :)

  146. Steffen Larsen

    stpeter: ha ha, ok

  147. Steffen Larsen

    stpeter: just look determined..

  148. Steffen Larsen

    its not the skype codec..

  149. Michael has joined

  150. Michael has left

  151. Zash has joined

  152. bear has left

  153. bear has joined

  154. pushp has joined

  155. pushp

    Hi - joining late. Is there a video stream?

  156. Ben Langfeld

    check the topic

  157. Ben Langfeld

    google hangout

  158. Steffen Larsen

    there is a hangout

  159. Steffen Larsen


  160. ralphm

    Florian linked me to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyguMuZnHoc at 00:12

  161. winfried

    I try to rejoin the hangout, but I get the message that the hangout is over...

  162. Steffen Larsen

    winfried: you have to click "yes" that you are still there in the hangout.

  163. Steffen Larsen

    irritating.. but..

  164. winfried

    don't see the option at my google+ app for android... :-(

  165. bear has left

  166. Steffen Larsen

    ohh prob. a small bug. ;-)

  167. Steffen Larsen

    its there on a normal browser

  168. winfried

    I am back, but audio only

  169. bear has joined

  170. winfried

    I have to apologize Stefan Strigler: I just got word he can't make it today

  171. winfried

    can somebody mirror the topic list?

  172. bear


  173. bear

    I am mirroring the pad peter is writing on

  174. Steffen Larsen

    bear: cool

  175. dwd

    That URI asks me if I want to create the pad. :-/

  176. dwd

    I guess it won't work on Android's Chrome or something.

  177. bear


  178. m&m

    bear: double-you eff em

  179. bear


  180. m&m

    works for me (wfm)

  181. dwd

    Huh. Nor on the (old) Android Browser. Ah, well.

  182. bear


  183. bear

    list as it stands:

  184. bear

    1. BOSH vs WebSocket 2. XMPP over WebSocket 3. batch / buffer size 4. General BOSH cleanup 5. Session attachment 6. Shared BOSH / WebSocket

  185. Zash has joined

  186. dwd

    bear, It's OK, I can just read the flipchart from here, I just wanted to help type.

  187. bear

    I keep forgetting some are in the room - brain is having trouble linking nicks here with real-life folk

  188. pushp

    Is this still the hangout URL? https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7a8d1536d98d4d57a9ebb42f89e771df1757d3d1 ? Says event ended.

  189. waqas

    pushp: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/341b1d71f1b5294d0ef616e0dccee849aa918c1a?authuser=0&hl=en-US

  190. stpeter


  191. pushp

    Thanks waqas, stpeter

  192. m&m

    I missed about 45 seconds of that conversation

  193. bear

    they are talking about the edge case that involves bosh receiving two requests with the same RID

  194. bear

    and trying to find out what current implementations are doing to handle it

  195. Ben Langfeld has left

  196. winfried

    and we have come to a conclusion?

  197. Ben Langfeld has joined

  198. m&m

    OpenFire must die?

  199. Zash


  200. winfried

    ....no comment

  201. Zash

    Did you manage to get the feed onto something that doesn't require a google account to see?

  202. winfried

    getting very choppy sound

  203. winfried

    lost it here...

  204. jack has left

  205. tofu has left

  206. jack has joined

  207. jack

    The solution we discussed for dupe RID was to return <body/> for the original request, discard data for the incoming duplicate request, and begin holding it.

  208. winfried

    thanks jack

  209. jack

    (sorry for delay. had wifi problems for a bit)

  210. waqas

    One solution we discussed before was: auth with SASL, using the session cookie/token as password.

  211. waqas

    The web application becomes the SASL service which the XMPP server talks with, and the client need not go through the web app

  212. tofu has joined

  213. bear has left

  214. jack has left

  215. jack has joined

  216. ralphm has left

  217. bear has joined

  218. m&m


  219. winfried

    beyond choppy.. disconnected

  220. bear

    yea, the wifi is getting busy here

  221. m&m

    lost audio

  222. bear

    MattJ bamf'd to a foreword seat

  223. dwd

    We have got two cameras going, could explain it - is anyone using Ralph's roving Nexus 7 cam?

  224. bear

    reconnect - the audio is working to others

  225. m&m

    dropping and rejoining

  226. bear

    everything dropped - reconnecting

  227. jack has left

  228. jack has joined

  229. Steffen Larsen

    wtf happened… well back again

  230. ralphm has joined

  231. winfried

    now I am all alone in the hangout...

  232. Steffen Larsen

    ha ha

  233. bear

    our side dropped - we had to reconnect

  234. m&m

    I rejoined

  235. Steffen Larsen

    I can see the others

  236. winfried

    maybe I am dropped again...

  237. winfried


  238. m&m


  239. waqas

    We have some implementations of that by the way. I can't recall, but it was probably Prosody's mod_auth_phpbb3, mod_auth_wordpress, etc.

  240. winfried

    of 'that' is: SASL external with the session id of the webapplication?

  241. m&m

    ask ralph to try landscape … it might provide a less squeezed view

  242. waqas

    We just used SASL PLAIN, with password=wordpress-auth-token. mod_auth_wordpress+Wordpress was an external SASL handler. No modification to the XMPP server or BOSH component.

  243. m&m


  244. m&m

    ¡gracias Ralph!

  245. waqas

    What Matthew Wild suggested also works across browsers (user has app open in multiple browsers/devices)

  246. m&m

    audio is super faint

  247. m&m

    and some extra feedback

  248. m&m

    I can't hear y'all

  249. m&m


  250. Steffen Larsen


  251. m&m


  252. Steffen Larsen


  253. Steffen Larsen

    sound is f****

  254. MattJ

    waqas: iirc you were originally on the shared-BOSH side :)

  255. winfried

    I missed the start of this discussion, was there discussed what would be the best level to solve this

  256. winfried


  257. waqas

    MattJ: I was. I was also on the session-unbind support side.

  258. tofu


  259. waqas

    tofu: Multiple sessions on the same (BOSH) stream. You can ignore that :)

  260. bear has left

  261. m&m

    ralphm: don't quit your dayjob to be a camera operator (-:

  262. m&m

    I'm a little dizzy now (-:

  263. dwd

    m&m, Ralph says his arm got tired.

  264. bear has joined

  265. Steffen Larsen

    can't manage any more guys.. I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow!

  266. dwd


  267. Steffen Larsen

    nighty nighty! :-)

  268. MattJ


  269. winfried


  270. Steffen Larsen has left

  271. pushp has left

  272. pushp has joined

  273. tofu has left

  274. tofu has joined

  275. bear


  276. Dave has joined

  277. waqas

    Shared streaming documents. Client logs in, indicates what categories of documents it's interested in (MUC rooms, etc), servers sends all current state, and streams updates. :)

  278. waqas

    This is exactly what the roster protocol does

  279. winfried

    so... the idea is now a 'session proxy'...?

  280. waqas

    One of the ideas

  281. winfried


  282. tofu

    ralphm: https://www.erlang-solutions.com/products/mongooseim-massively-scalable-ejabberd-platform

  283. m&m

    brb - bb

  284. Florob has joined

  285. Zash has left

  286. bear

    Michal Slaski from Erlang Solutions

  287. tofu


  288. tofu

    jack: ^

  289. m&m

    are there slides?

  290. m&m


  291. bear


  292. pushp has left

  293. pushp has joined

  294. Tobias has left

  295. Tobias has joined

  296. Tobias has left

  297. Tobias has joined

  298. waqas notes that ejabberd's BOSH doesn't support HTTP Connection:Keep-Alive

  299. Tobias

    of course not

  300. tofu

    why would you want that? ;)

  301. waqas

    Which badly hurts BOSH performance

  302. Tobias

    if you want long connections, why don't you use normal TCP? :P

  303. MattJ

    Tobias: Because the W3C+IETF wouldn't let us

  304. Tobias

    yeah...that bad IETF :) aron didn't bash about w3c a bit....didn't they have their fingers in oauth too?

  305. waqas

    You can't blame them. Raw TCP isn't WebScale.

  306. MattJ

    He said most stuff went wrong under the IETF

  307. Tobias

    waqas, only node is webscale

  308. Tobias

    doesn't w3c have even more coporate participation than ietf?

  309. waqas

    There's Tigase, with their pseudo-XML parser :)

  310. winfried


  311. winfried

    btw sorry for forgetting to mute myself after relogging in

  312. m&m

    I need to drop out … could you post the followup discussions on the list before you all adjourn?

  313. bear

    sure can

  314. winfried


  315. m&m has left

  316. m&m has joined

  317. m&m has left

  318. winfried

    I remember a blog by Jack on translating it...

  319. jack


  320. jack

    JSON-LD supposedly solves the namespacing issue

  321. jack

    but the array vs. non-array thing is not as easy

  322. winfried


  323. jack

    or perhaps i don't know enough about json-ld

  324. jack

    i should probably write a version 2 of that blog comparing it against json-ld

  325. jack


  326. winfried

    client side serializing/deserializing? makes me shiver...

  327. MattJ


  328. MattJ

    Every problem can be solved with another layer of indirection

  329. winfried

    but what is the problem? webdevelopers not able to use a api?

  330. MattJ


  331. Ben Langfeld

    web developers are like school children and XML is like cooties

  332. bear


  333. Ben Langfeld

    Does this surprise anyone?

  334. bear

    i'l avoid saying things about php and javascript-in-browser...

  335. winfried

    bear: tempting wasn't it

  336. bear


  337. waqas has left

  338. ralphm

    { "iq": { "-type": "set", "-from": "hamlet@denmark.lit/blogbot", "-to": "pubsub.shakespeare.lit", "-id": "pub1", "pubsub": { "-xmlns": "http://jabber.org/protocol/pubsub", "publish": { "-node": "princely_musings", "item": { "entry": { "-xmlns": "http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom", "title": "Soliloquy", "summary": " To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? ", "link": { "-rel": "alternate", "-type": "text/html", "-href": "http://denmark.lit/2003/12/13/atom03" }, "id": "tag:denmark.lit,2003:entry-32397", "published": "2003-12-13T18:30:02Z", "updated": "2003-12-13T18:30:02Z" } } } } } }

  339. ralphm


  340. Lance

    that's suprisingly straightforward

  341. jack

    why do some start with -?

  342. Lance


  343. winfried


  344. bear

    attributes to the element

  345. Lance

    ralphm: now do one using xml:lang

  346. winfried


  347. ralphm

    of course there are some issues. Some elements *may* actually be specified more than once at a particular level. E.g. in this example, there might be multiple "link" entries, and that translator the wraps those in a list: link: [{"-rel":....},{"-rel":....}]

  348. ralphm

    Lance: I assume it will just do '-xml:lang'

  349. Lance

    ralphm I was thinking of the matter that you can have multiple of the same item as long as the lang is different

  350. jack

    one issue is that youcan't do link.append("foo") because it may be a list or it may be a single element

  351. jack

    so they all have to be lists right?

  352. ralphm

    jack: in that case it does become ugly

  353. ralphm

    jack: and that's when bear's suggestion becomes more attractive to me

  354. jack

    what was bear's suggestion?

  355. Lance

    fixed model, loses extensibility

  356. Lance

    in the general sense

  357. jack

    seems like a nonstarter though. won't you devolve into IRC like stuff where people text encode the customizations inside the "standard" elements provided?

  358. Lance

    {http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#info}query -> "disco_info"

  359. Ben Langfeld

    Or a fixed model which decorates an XML model, gaining both benefits

  360. Lance

    a mapping like that

  361. dwd

    Fixed model for known items, stock tools for JSON-a-like payloads, and we didn't discuss extensions to the fixed models.

  362. Ben Langfeld

    I take an XML node and I decorate it with a dev-friendly model.

  363. Ben Langfeld

    I can still do all of the generic XML operations I enjoy, and everyone whose use-cases fit the decorator can just use that.

  364. waqas has joined

  365. ralphm

    Ben Langfeld: can you paste a small example?

  366. dwd

    roster.add("Dave Cridland", "dwd@dave.cridland.net").x("group").t("Fools")

  367. dwd


  368. Ben Langfeld

    presence = Blather::Stanza::Presence.new presence.status = :dnd presence.add_child 'foo' # => <presence><show>dnd</show><foo/></presence>

  369. Ben Langfeld

    Dave's example is also the same idea

  370. Lance

    Ben Langfeld: +1 that's what sleek does, especially since it followed blather's model

  371. bear

    dave's example would fit the nodeJS folks to a T

  372. Ben Langfeld

    <off-topic>Blather does this badly right now but I will fix it</off-topic>

  373. Lance

    bear: almost, they'd want: roster.add({name: 'Dave Cridland', jid: 'dwd@dave.cridland.net', groups: ['Fools']})

  374. ralphm

    roster is a bad example, as we don't do extensions there

  375. bear

    lance: wouldn't the .().().() pattern fit better?

  376. Lance

    nope, you put all the optional args in a dict. that's the established pattern

  377. Ben Langfeld


  378. Ben Langfeld

    Blather and Sleek do this

  379. dwd

    ralpm, Yeah - when didwe decide not to do extensions there?

  380. dwd

    My example was adding the group element manually, of course.

  381. ralphm

    dwd: not sure, but not regretting it :-)

  382. dwd

    Or pretending to - I don't think it could work like that.

  383. bear

    lance: oh, that didn't look like what substack was showing - guess I still don't get NodeJS

  384. dwd

    ralphm, Oh, I quite liked the idea. I implemented it before finding I couldn't find the spec for it anywhere for the commit log.

  385. Lance

    bear: what he did was for stuff that actually needed to pipeline. you don't need to pipeline to create a roster item

  386. Ben Langfeld

    If anyone likes Objective-* examples: https://github.com/ArchipelProject/StropheCappuccino/blob/master/TNStropheRoster.j

  387. dwd

    ralphm, In fact, M-Link tags autogroups (shared groups) using extension elements inside roster items, actually. Works fine.

  388. ralphm

    dwd: oh, ok

  389. ralphm

    I would say that the big majority of XEPs actually have pretty fixed schemas that don't allow any extensibiity

  390. Ben Langfeld


  391. dwd

    ralphm, But I *thought* we had arbitrary elements (and a requirement to persist) in RFC 6120 somewhere. It's nowhere there now, so I guess we removed it entirely at some point.

  392. ralphm

    exceptions are message stanzas and pubsub payloads

  393. ralphm

    and error conditions

  394. Lance

    occasionally we add new xeps that retro-extennd xeps. like rsm, shim, etc

  395. dwd

    ralphm, Sure, but this turns out to be really quite useful. I suppose it needs a disco feature and things. Maybe I should write a XEP.

  396. tofu has left

  397. tofu has joined

  398. Lance

    the main thing is that we do namespace versioning, but that's not too hard to deal with

  399. ralphm

    Lance: agreed, but you could possibly wrap those and it is usually orthogonal

  400. Ben Langfeld

    To the general point, I don't see that the wire format is the problem so much as libraries being too general and assuming that end-users will read XEPs and construct stanzas manually.

  401. Ben Langfeld

    Which…they won't

  402. Ben Langfeld


  403. Ben Langfeld

    socket.io and the like are successful because the API is like 1 method

  404. Lance

    +1 Ben Langfeld

  405. winfried


  406. waqas

    I've seen people complain about libraries not implementing usertune, so yes :)

  407. Ben Langfeld


  408. m&m has joined

  409. ralphm

    Ben Langfeld: agreed. I just wanted to put it out there. If you don't need generic mapping and/or stanza construction, then you basically need to define a model that maps the existing xml serialization, whether or not you define an actual json serialization.

  410. waqas

    Why is no one mentioning AMQP, which is the industry standard with multiple implementations, as opposed to 0mq which is basic? :)

  411. Lance

    we have

  412. waqas

    I missed that

  413. ralphm

    AMQP has been mentioned a couple of times

  414. bear

    the folks who wrote 0mq were around when amqp was written

  415. waqas

    The one thing amqp has going for it is reliability guarantees as part of the protocol. I don't think any competing protocols have that.

  416. winfried

    before everybody runs of to the dinner... maybe good to wrap a few things up on BOSH

  417. winfried

    open ends from todays discussion (imho);

  418. winfried

    RIDs: who writes the patch?

  419. winfried

    HTTP/XMPP authentication: is there enough consensus to write a protocol/extention for it?

  420. dwd

    winfried, Yeah, I think there was enough consensus to work on that.

  421. winfried

    then of course the next question: who will pick it up? :-D

  422. dwd

    Yeah, not sure we have an actual volunteer for that. And Lance is back, so we can't volunteer him again. :-)

  423. Lance


  424. Lance


  425. winfried

    then on websockets: is there any need for work on the proposal or are there extra things to standardize, or does the draft from Jack and Eric Cestari work for now?

  426. winfried

    (I think it does work right now, but better check it)

  427. dwd

    BTW, the brownies and cookies are nice.

  428. Ben Langfeld

    <3 cookies

  429. winfried

    plz safe some of them for me ;-)

  430. Ben Langfeld

    >> cookie monster

  431. jack

    waqas: zeromq is misnamed. it has no relation to amqp except hte people behind it and the "queue" in th ename

  432. jack

    it violates the liskov substitution principle in both directions :)

  433. Lance

    while considering bosh & websockets, should we do a binding for server sent events? sse feed + post endpoint for sending sounds like it should work rather simply.

  434. waqas

    jack: I know. I initially missed references to amqp and thought only 0mq was being discussed.

  435. jack

    we were mixing it all together :)

  436. jack

    still are :)

  437. ralphm

    m&m: is that still stpeter's office?

  438. winfried


  439. dwd

    m&m, Move everything around on the shelves.

  440. m&m


  441. m&m

    that's my home … you're seeing a small subset of my LEGO Star Wars collection